Crowd forced to stone 15-year-old boy to death for being gay

[Playball40]

I guessed a society ruled by any Abrahamic religion without secular constraints. Unlike your assumption, mine allowed me to accurately predict this incident without having to know when it occurred.

Since it's news it pretty much has to be something recent and that says it must be Islam. Christianity and Judaism aren't that hardline these days.

I can't speak for Judaism, but the only reason "Christianity" is not that hardline is because the law is not on their side. If they could stone a 15 year old gay kid to death, many would. Hell, they gladly kick them out of foster care for being gay.

 

[Elixir]

Unfortunately the horse of apologetics for Islam among so-called liberals is far from dead.

Is Islam synonymous with ISIS and Taliban, to a jingoistic xenophobe?

 

[Jarhyn]

So before opening the thread how many of you correctly guessed "Islam" and how many still have their heads in the sand?

Darn it, I got it wrong. I guessed Christianity because it is just as bad as teh islam. I'm zero for ten in this game.

If you wanted to see that, you'd have to look somewhere in Africa, for witch burnings.

 

[Ford]

Unfortunately the horse of apologetics for Islam among so-called liberals is far from dead.

Is Islam synonymous with ISIS and Taliban, to a jingoistic xenophobe?

I think the better question would be (if you were dealing with someone reasonable):

If ISIS were not in control of this place, would this have happened?

Rewind the tape to the 90s, and you had this sort of thing happening under Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Public executions, extreme oppression of people, repression of anything remotely modern (dress, music, pop culture, etc.) and generally strict enforcement of religious mores.

All imposed by the Taliban, and all gone once they were deposed. During all this time, the religious demographics didn't change. Afghanistan was Muslim before the Taliban, Muslim during, and Muslim after, so Islam wasn't the problem...it was the Taliban and their weird extremist interpretation of it that drove the behavior.

For this incident to be blamed on Islam generally and not on ISIS, you'd have to show that stoning of 15 year old gay teenagers (with the crowd being forced to play along) was commonplace before ISIS was running things.

 

[Frikki]

No, it confirms we are right.

It is not a uniquely Muslim or Christian thing it is a stupid third world thing.

Yet, even in the "stupid third world" the Islamic part is significantly stupider and more backward. And btw, the European Left is determined to flood Europe with many millions from the "stupid third world" for some reason.

BTW I just wrote out the first 5 Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable by jail it is not the whole list.

If you look at the world map of how illegal homosexuality there is a pretty strong correlation with predominately Islamic countries. It is not a perfect correlation, but then nobody claimed it was.

There is a correlation between shitty third world countries and banning homosexuality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Chinese penal system is harsh but nothing like Sharia.

And "forced" late term abortions is pretty much a fabrication of the pro-life community. It's not permitted by law, but in a state where the local officials have as much power as they do in China there are occasional abuses. Having too many kids carries a substantial financial penalty, that's all.

A simple test: I have been in various police states, and even had a run-in with the law in one. They are uniformly identifiable by the fear of any police contact the average person has. Consider our run-in with the law--our actual dealings with the police were hard only because of the language barrier. (The discussion ended up being in German, a language which both the officer and my mother spoke poorly and which my father couldn't meaningfully contribute.) We were able to show it was their own official that had goofed and since we didn't speak the language we couldn't even catch it. Now for the hard part--we were supposed to fill out a report. In Hungarian. Big problems--nobody was willing to translate because it was a police matter. Finally a Viennese businessman overheard our problems and helped--he knew we weren't going to find a local willing to help.

Contrast that with China: Every trip of ours over there these days involves a stop at the local police station to fill out a form. Various relatives have been with us during the registration, none have been worried about stepping into the lion's den. (Note: The typical tourist doesn't need to do this as their hotel takes care of it for them. If you're not in a hotel, though, you have to do it yourself.) Or contrast it with the encounter we witnessed in the marketplace: Due to a misunderstanding a guy selling pornographic DVDs (note: illegal) got the notion that we were interested in buying some and was unhappy at seeing an imagined sale walking away and kept trying to get us to go to where his stuff was. A cop noticed this and shooed him off and he was talking back, not cowering like someone in a police state would.

Ah, yes, the experiences of tourists in countries hungry for western coin. Such an apt comparison.

Note that in both cases I was talking about how the locals react to the police, not how the police treat tourists.

- - - Updated - - -

Heard of? I've been there.

And where in Africa are people going to be stoned for being gay--that is, in non-Muslim areas?

Here five Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable to be homosexual.

Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burundi, Kenya. We also have Uganda where homosexuality is handled through life in prison or vigilante justice.

Your impotent hate for muslims sometimes blinds you that other people can be very shitty.

The question was about stoning, not merely punishment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is Islam synonymous with ISIS and Taliban, to a jingoistic xenophobe?

I think the better question would be (if you were dealing with someone reasonable):

If ISIS were not in control of this place, would this have happened?

Rewind the tape to the 90s, and you had this sort of thing happening under Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Public executions, extreme oppression of people, repression of anything remotely modern (dress, music, pop culture, etc.) and generally strict enforcement of religious mores.

All imposed by the Taliban, and all gone once they were deposed. During all this time, the religious demographics didn't change. Afghanistan was Muslim before the Taliban, Muslim during, and Muslim after, so Islam wasn't the problem...it was the Taliban and their weird extremist interpretation of it that drove the behavior.

For this incident to be blamed on Islam generally and not on ISIS, you'd have to show that stoning of 15 year old gay teenagers (with the crowd being forced to play along) was commonplace before ISIS was running things.

Yeah, Islam isn't the problem, radical Islam is the problem.

 

[Jarhyn]

Who cares if it's stoning, witch burnings, political prisons for speaking out of turn, or throwing acid in women's faces?

It isn't a product of religion, religion is merely a symptom.

People feel a disconnect between what he wants and what society wants (when the rational mind and emotions don't line up, or worse, when there are no rational minds to disagree at all). When a person is particularly weak or weak minded, and fails to find a reason to not be shitty, they give in to all the darwinian evolutionary baggage.

It's going to consistently take the form of regulating the pleasure of others, attempting to exert as much control as possible over people with vaginas, to generate excuses for doing it which sidestep societal safeguards, and to destroy or demonize anything that counters that narrative. It can happen anywhere that society is shitty and uneducated enough. And religion isn't required.

 

[iolo]

So before opening the thread how many of you correctly guessed "Islam" and how many still have their heads in the sand?

I thought they'd held the Republican Convention earlier than forecast.

 

[J842P]

Is Islam synonymous with ISIS and Taliban, to a jingoistic xenophobe?

I think the better question would be (if you were dealing with someone reasonable):

If ISIS were not in control of this place, would this have happened?

Rewind the tape to the 90s, and you had this sort of thing happening under Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Public executions, extreme oppression of people, repression of anything remotely modern (dress, music, pop culture, etc.) and generally strict enforcement of religious mores.

All imposed by the Taliban, and all gone once they were deposed. During all this time, the religious demographics didn't change. Afghanistan was Muslim before the Taliban, Muslim during, and Muslim after, so Islam wasn't the problem...it was the Taliban and their weird extremist interpretation of it that drove the behavior.

For this incident to be blamed on Islam generally and not on ISIS, you'd have to show that stoning of 15 year old gay teenagers (with the crowd being forced to play along) was commonplace before ISIS was running things.

Their interpretation is hardly "weird."

Look, even if I grant that things like stoning a gay 15-year-old are particularly extremist, I don't know why this is so hard to accept that even mainstream Islam is very much antithetical to liberal Western culture. Of course, Judaism and Christianity are as well, in their more pure forms, but in the West they exist in a form that has been diluted to the point where they are unrecognizable to Christians and Jews of the past. Only tiny minorities exist who still believe in the old-ways. There are mainstream Christian churches where a gay couple could be married by a lesbian pastor. In Kansas.

 

[Lion IRC]

Were any (supposedly) gay people ever actually stoned to death anywhere in the bible?

#scared_straight

 

[arkirk]

You of little patience and you of little hope...there is a solution you might find...blow the whole thing up with a nice little hellfire missile. All over the world people have to live side by side with the guilty. It is hard to do it. It is hard for some of us to not hate...but it seems an immutable fact that if we allow our hate of someone or something, no matter how foul, to determine our actions, we are acting blindly. There are always overarching humanitarian principles that leave us feeling we have accomplished nothing every time we resort to violence...win or lose...you lose.

 

[Frikki]

Ah, yes, the experiences of tourists in countries hungry for western coin. Such an apt comparison.

Note that in both cases I was talking about how the locals react to the police, not how the police treat tourists.

- - - Updated - - -

Heard of? I've been there.

And where in Africa are people going to be stoned for being gay--that is, in non-Muslim areas?

Here five Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable to be homosexual.

Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burundi, Kenya. We also have Uganda where homosexuality is handled through life in prison or vigilante justice.

Your impotent hate for muslims sometimes blinds you that other people can be very shitty.

The question was about stoning, not merely punishment.

Sorry, I assumed a certain level of reading comprehension of you and that was not fair.

The point is that even though you hate muslims, violence against gays is not a muslim problem it is a shitty regressive third world problem that is shared between Muslims, Christians and what the fuck ever else.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Note that in both cases I was talking about how the locals react to the police, not how the police treat tourists.

- - - Updated - - -

Heard of? I've been there.

And where in Africa are people going to be stoned for being gay--that is, in non-Muslim areas?

Here five Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable to be homosexual.

Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burundi, Kenya. We also have Uganda where homosexuality is handled through life in prison or vigilante justice.

Your impotent hate for muslims sometimes blinds you that other people can be very shitty.

The question was about stoning, not merely punishment.

Sorry, I assumed a certain level of reading comprehension of you and that was not fair.

The point is that even though you hate muslims, violence against gays is not a muslim problem it is a shitty regressive third world problem that is shared between Muslims, Christians and what the fuck ever else.

You're moving the goalposts here.

Look at the thread title: "stone".

Stoning in the modern world is a Muslim thing.

You're trying to substitute "violence" for "stone".

 

[Jarhyn]

Note that in both cases I was talking about how the locals react to the police, not how the police treat tourists.

- - - Updated - - -

Heard of? I've been there.

And where in Africa are people going to be stoned for being gay--that is, in non-Muslim areas?

Here five Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable to be homosexual.

Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burundi, Kenya. We also have Uganda where homosexuality is handled through life in prison or vigilante justice.

Your impotent hate for muslims sometimes blinds you that other people can be very shitty.

The question was about stoning, not merely punishment.

Sorry, I assumed a certain level of reading comprehension of you and that was not fair.

The point is that even though you hate muslims, violence against gays is not a muslim problem it is a shitty regressive third world problem that is shared between Muslims, Christians and what the fuck ever else.

You're moving the goalposts here.

Look at the thread title: "stone".

Stoning in the modern world is a Muslim thing.

You're trying to substitute "violence" for "stone".

Because the question was leading and full of spin. Because you're looking to get a specific response that lends to the narrative specifically against Islam, and to direct hate in that general direction while ignoring the fact that the real problems are not exclusive to that particular bit of claptrap.

 

[Frikki]

Note that in both cases I was talking about how the locals react to the police, not how the police treat tourists.

- - - Updated - - -

Heard of? I've been there.

And where in Africa are people going to be stoned for being gay--that is, in non-Muslim areas?

Here five Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable to be homosexual.

Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burundi, Kenya. We also have Uganda where homosexuality is handled through life in prison or vigilante justice.

Your impotent hate for muslims sometimes blinds you that other people can be very shitty.

The question was about stoning, not merely punishment.

Sorry, I assumed a certain level of reading comprehension of you and that was not fair.

The point is that even though you hate muslims, violence against gays is not a muslim problem it is a shitty regressive third world problem that is shared between Muslims, Christians and what the fuck ever else.

You're moving the goalposts here.

Look at the thread title: "stone".

Stoning in the modern world is a Muslim thing.

You're trying to substitute "violence" for "stone".

Is there a huge difference between being stoned and killed with a club?

 

[Toni]

Note that in both cases I was talking about how the locals react to the police, not how the police treat tourists.

- - - Updated - - -

Heard of? I've been there.

And where in Africa are people going to be stoned for being gay--that is, in non-Muslim areas?

Here five Christian countries in Africa where it is punishable to be homosexual.

Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burundi, Kenya. We also have Uganda where homosexuality is handled through life in prison or vigilante justice.

Your impotent hate for muslims sometimes blinds you that other people can be very shitty.

The question was about stoning, not merely punishment.

Sorry, I assumed a certain level of reading comprehension of you and that was not fair.

The point is that even though you hate muslims, violence against gays is not a muslim problem it is a shitty regressive third world problem that is shared between Muslims, Christians and what the fuck ever else.

You're moving the goalposts here.

Look at the thread title: "stone".

Stoning in the modern world is a Muslim thing.

You're trying to substitute "violence" for "stone".

So hanging is better?

What happened to Matthew Shepard is better? That happened sooo many years ago? Time out of mind really. Under 20 years but still!

 

[TSwizzle]

Comedy gold;

'I’ve never felt more Muslim than I do now' says lesbian living in Toronto.

Prayer spaces that welcome queer Muslims are often not advertised to protect people’s safety. If you don’t have a queer Muslim friend who attends an inclusive mosque or know of a queer imam who organizes prayers, it’s impossible to know that they exist. I had heard about Unity mosque from activist friends who ran in the same social circles as one of the co-founders, El-Farouk Khaki. The human rights lawyer founded the mosque in 2014 with his partner Troy Jackson and academic Laurie Silvers. “What’s really significant is the fact that we have triggered people’s imagination with the notion of an inclusive mosque space that’s gender-equal and queer-affirming. It’s a place that doesn’t ask you if you’re a Muslim or what kind of Muslim you are. Everybody is welcome. People are embraced in the fullness of their authenticity,” Khaki explains.

Guardian

If Samra didn't exist I have no doubt The Guardian would make it up anyway.

 

[bilby]

I think the better question would be (if you were dealing with someone reasonable):

If ISIS were not in control of this place, would this have happened?

Rewind the tape to the 90s, and you had this sort of thing happening under Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Public executions, extreme oppression of people, repression of anything remotely modern (dress, music, pop culture, etc.) and generally strict enforcement of religious mores.

All imposed by the Taliban, and all gone once they were deposed. During all this time, the religious demographics didn't change. Afghanistan was Muslim before the Taliban, Muslim during, and Muslim after, so Islam wasn't the problem...it was the Taliban and their weird extremist interpretation of it that drove the behavior.

For this incident to be blamed on Islam generally and not on ISIS, you'd have to show that stoning of 15 year old gay teenagers (with the crowd being forced to play along) was commonplace before ISIS was running things.

Their interpretation is hardly "weird."

Look, even if I grant that things like stoning a gay 15-year-old are particularly extremist, I don't know why this is so hard to accept that even mainstream Islam is very much antithetical to liberal Western culture. Of course, Judaism and Christianity are as well, in their more pure forms, but in the West they exist in a form that has been diluted to the point where they are unrecognizable to Christians and Jews of the past. Only tiny minorities exist who still believe in the old-ways. There are mainstream Christian churches where a gay couple could be married by a lesbian pastor. In Kansas.

That's stretching the word 'mainstream' a bit far.

There are mosques in the developed world with openly gay imams. There are large numbers of people in the developed world who identify as Muslim, but rarely go to a mosque or say their prayers, and who are happy to drink alcohol (but tend to avoid bacon).

There are a lot of 'cultural muslims' in the west who, like their 'cultural christian' and 'cultural jew' neighbours, have their religion of origin as a kind of vague tribal flag, that they can wave around to let people know which groups they like to identify with; but who don't actually conform to the diktats of their declared faith.

Most of the Muslims I know fall into this category. People like to wear cultural markers. One friend of mine, who can drink me under the table (and has), identifies as Fijian Indian, though she has never been to India, and left Fiji as a toddler. She is also a Muslim, and an Australian. She wears low cut tops and short skirts, drinks beer, and I have never seen her wearing any kind of headscarf - but she avoids eating during daylight hours one month a year. She's a Muslim in the exact same way that most English people are Christians - in a way that barely impacts her life at all, and which the more fundamentalist adherents of the faith would likely consider to be atheism.

But like those 'Christmas and Easter' Christians who miss three Easter services out of four, she would be horrified by the suggestion that she is not a Muslim.

Moderate Islam is everywhere. It's not really noticeable to the casual observer, because like all moderate religion, it's barely noticeable even to its practitioners.

 

[bigfield]

But but Koran! Sharia! Moslems! Pedophile! Caliphate!