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Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

Not to mention that as I said repeatedly about this it comes down to muscle memory in that if you are only generally drilling on drawing the gun, and not drilling against cross-confusion, you will be drawing your gun instead of your taser.

This is entirely a failure of training, and the officers so failed by their training may be ruined without extensive and what I think ought be mandatory re-training.

But I don't blame the cop in this one.

Except the cop involved is one of the instructors. Or field training officer if you prefer. It's not a good look. I do agree that the most productive outcome of this incident is a review and revision of police policy and training. Unfortunately, I suspect that is also the least likely outcome.
I guess my point is, this is exactly a symptom of a disease, namely bad training practices.

It's a bad look, most certainly, when she's the trainer. But I do wonder how much leverage she has on the curriculum. If she has a lot, she needs not only to lose her job. Her name needs to be attached in such an event to the action of what she did ala Santorum.
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit.
Accidents happen and they are tragic. This woman going to prison isn't going to improve society. She needs to pay a cost, but time in prison doesn't seem appropriate. Our judicial system is wholly incapable of measuring out justice appropriately in so many cases.
By this reasoning, the person who incorrectly assembles a scaffold, which later collapses and kills a construction worker, should not face a prison sentence. The modern world is filled with situations where simple decisions made by a person who is in a position of responsibility can result in a loss of life.
I'm saying prison time /= justice. She made a terrible mistake, but I'm objecting to prison time being what pays for it.
The definition of first degree murder depends upon a state's specific definition. In my state, Louisiana, a charge of first degree murder is very rare because any element of emotional distress in the defendant can be used by the defense and reduce the charge to second degree. However, the law also allows a sentence of life without parole for some cases of second degree murder.
Isn't this manslaughter, not murder? I'm assuming that distinction matters in this state.
The term "Napoleonic Code" gets mentioned anytime Louisiana law is considered. What this means in bv reality is every degree of the a crime defined and has to meet certain criteria. Most appeals are based on an argument over degree.

In the case at hand, we need to recognize this is not a matter of an ordinarily innocuous object becoming deadly, such as knocking a flower pot off a 3rd floor window and killing a pedestrian.

This officer went into the situation knowing she had a deadly weapon. She used this weapon to kill a person. We cannot call this kind of action an "accident", any more than when a drunk driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. It was a error in judgment in the use of a deadly weapon, which resulted in bv the death of a person.

Why should this officer receive special treatment? Imagine a civilian in the same situation. They kill a person, but claim they only intended to intimidate and pulling the trigger was an accident. Is that a viable defense against a murder charge?
The cop has been forced for long hours under direction of instructors to repeatedly draw their gun when faced with adverse circumstances.

It is highly likely that the training to do so for a taser is lacking, and "training to draw exactly a _____ when drawing for a _____" is also probably lacking.

That is the defense against criminality.

It still shouldn't be defense of a job in law enforcement, and absolutely indicates a need for immediate mandatory re-training of the rest of the force. Or, see my last post.
You are asserting facts which I don't know to be in evidence. Whatever training this police department proscribed, this officer is the only one to kill someone because she mistook a pistol for a tazer. When a person runs over a pedestrian(it's been a bad day for pedestrians), we don't blame their driving instructor in an attempt to reduce the offense.

There maybe deficiencies in an organization, but every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions.
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit.
Accidents happen and they are tragic. This woman going to prison isn't going to improve society. She needs to pay a cost, but time in prison doesn't seem appropriate. Our judicial system is wholly incapable of measuring out justice appropriately in so many cases.
By this reasoning, the person who incorrectly assembles a scaffold, which later collapses and kills a construction worker, should not face a prison sentence. The modern world is filled with situations where simple decisions made by a person who is in a position of responsibility can result in a loss of life.
I'm saying prison time /= justice. She made a terrible mistake, but I'm objecting to prison time being what pays for it.
The definition of first degree murder depends upon a state's specific definition. In my state, Louisiana, a charge of first degree murder is very rare because any element of emotional distress in the defendant can be used by the defense and reduce the charge to second degree. However, the law also allows a sentence of life without parole for some cases of second degree murder.
Isn't this manslaughter, not murder? I'm assuming that distinction matters in this state.
The term "Napoleonic Code" gets mentioned anytime Louisiana law is considered. What this means in bv reality is every degree of the a crime defined and has to meet certain criteria. Most appeals are based on an argument over degree.

In the case at hand, we need to recognize this is not a matter of an ordinarily innocuous object becoming deadly, such as knocking a flower pot off a 3rd floor window and killing a pedestrian.

This officer went into the situation knowing she had a deadly weapon. She used this weapon to kill a person. We cannot call this kind of action an "accident", any more than when a drunk driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. It was a error in judgment in the use of a deadly weapon, which resulted in bv the death of a person.

Why should this officer receive special treatment? Imagine a civilian in the same situation. They kill a person, but claim they only intended to intimidate and pulling the trigger was an accident. Is that a viable defense against a murder charge?
The cop has been forced for long hours under direction of instructors to repeatedly draw their gun when faced with adverse circumstances.

It is highly likely that the training to do so for a taser is lacking, and "training to draw exactly a _____ when drawing for a _____" is also probably lacking.

That is the defense against criminality.

It still shouldn't be defense of a job in law enforcement, and absolutely indicates a need for immediate mandatory re-training of the rest of the force. Or, see my last post.
You are asserting facts which I don't know to be in evidence. Whatever training this police department proscribed, this officer is the only one to kill someone because she mistook a pistol for a tazer. When a person runs over a pedestrian(it's been a bad day for pedestrians), we don't blame their driving instructor in an attempt to reduce the offense.

There maybe deficiencies in an organization, but every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions.
It's not "mistaken for". It's literally "reflexively retrieved." The failure here seems to be one of understanding how exactly we call our bodies to action. I could WANT to grab the tazer, do what I thought was grabbing it, and still be unable to in duress because of training and instead find a gun there.

It is not the kind of thing that comes down to culpability directly.

I absolutely WOULD blame a driving instructor and driving instruction course if it taught "drivers have the right of way at all times over pedestrians because pedestrians shouldn't be stupid about how dangerous cars are and it's their own damn fault", and then forced students to drill on that.

Criminal culpability requires a choice made by the agent held culpable. When there is only one dominant training which has created supremacy of a behavioral pattern as a response over the desired behavior, that is not going to be a true choice that can be made except in situations of extremely low duress.
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit.
Accidents happen and they are tragic. This woman going to prison isn't going to improve society. She needs to pay a cost, but time in prison doesn't seem appropriate. Our judicial system is wholly incapable of measuring out justice appropriately in so many cases.
By this reasoning, the person who incorrectly assembles a scaffold, which later collapses and kills a construction worker, should not face a prison sentence. The modern world is filled with situations where simple decisions made by a person who is in a position of responsibility can result in a loss of life.
I'm saying prison time /= justice. She made a terrible mistake, but I'm objecting to prison time being what pays for it.
The definition of first degree murder depends upon a state's specific definition. In my state, Louisiana, a charge of first degree murder is very rare because any element of emotional distress in the defendant can be used by the defense and reduce the charge to second degree. However, the law also allows a sentence of life without parole for some cases of second degree murder.
Isn't this manslaughter, not murder? I'm assuming that distinction matters in this state.
The term "Napoleonic Code" gets mentioned anytime Louisiana law is considered. What this means in bv reality is every degree of the a crime defined and has to meet certain criteria. Most appeals are based on an argument over degree.

In the case at hand, we need to recognize this is not a matter of an ordinarily innocuous object becoming deadly, such as knocking a flower pot off a 3rd floor window and killing a pedestrian.

This officer went into the situation knowing she had a deadly weapon. She used this weapon to kill a person. We cannot call this kind of action an "accident", any more than when a drunk driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. It was a error in judgment in the use of a deadly weapon, which resulted in bv the death of a person.

Why should this officer receive special treatment? Imagine a civilian in the same situation. They kill a person, but claim they only intended to intimidate and pulling the trigger was an accident. Is that a viable defense against a murder charge?
The cop has been forced for long hours under direction of instructors to repeatedly draw their gun when faced with adverse circumstances.

It is highly likely that the training to do so for a taser is lacking, and "training to draw exactly a _____ when drawing for a _____" is also probably lacking.

That is the defense against criminality.

It still shouldn't be defense of a job in law enforcement, and absolutely indicates a need for immediate mandatory re-training of the rest of the force. Or, see my last post.
You are asserting facts which I don't know to be in evidence. Whatever training this police department proscribed, this officer is the only one to kill someone because she mistook a pistol for a tazer. When a person runs over a pedestrian(it's been a bad day for pedestrians), we don't blame their driving instructor in an attempt to reduce the offense.

There maybe deficiencies in an organization, but every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions.
It's not "mistaken for". It's literally "reflexively retrieved." The failure here seems to be one of understanding how exactly we call our bodies to action. I could WANT to grab the tazer, do what I thought was grabbing it, and still be unable to in duress because of training and instead find a gun there.

It is not the kind of thing that comes down to culpability directly.

I absolutely WOULD blame a driving instructor and driving instruction course if it taught "drivers have the right of way at all times over pedestrians because pedestrians shouldn't be stupid about how dangerous cars are and it's their own damn fault", and then forced students to drill on that.

Criminal culpability requires a choice made by the agent held culpable. When there is only one dominant training which has created supremacy of a behavioral pattern as a response over the desired behavior, that is not going to be a true choice that can be made except in situations of extremely low duress.
If she didn't mistake her pistol for her taser, then it was an intentional act. If a police officer is to be excused of responsibility for shooting someone who should have been tased, we have just granted a license to kill.

This sounds more like a death which resulted not because of training, but the failure to benefit from it.

There were other police officers on the scene and none of them fired their weapon, thinking it was a taser. Police officers tase people on daily basis, but shoot relatively few when they intend to tase them. Why is this police officer entitled to special treatment after making an error in judgment which caused death?
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit.
Accidents happen and they are tragic. This woman going to prison isn't going to improve society. She needs to pay a cost, but time in prison doesn't seem appropriate. Our judicial system is wholly incapable of measuring out justice appropriately in so many cases.
By this reasoning, the person who incorrectly assembles a scaffold, which later collapses and kills a construction worker, should not face a prison sentence. The modern world is filled with situations where simple decisions made by a person who is in a position of responsibility can result in a loss of life.
I'm saying prison time /= justice. She made a terrible mistake, but I'm objecting to prison time being what pays for it.
The definition of first degree murder depends upon a state's specific definition. In my state, Louisiana, a charge of first degree murder is very rare because any element of emotional distress in the defendant can be used by the defense and reduce the charge to second degree. However, the law also allows a sentence of life without parole for some cases of second degree murder.
Isn't this manslaughter, not murder? I'm assuming that distinction matters in this state.
The term "Napoleonic Code" gets mentioned anytime Louisiana law is considered. What this means in bv reality is every degree of the a crime defined and has to meet certain criteria. Most appeals are based on an argument over degree.

In the case at hand, we need to recognize this is not a matter of an ordinarily innocuous object becoming deadly, such as knocking a flower pot off a 3rd floor window and killing a pedestrian.

This officer went into the situation knowing she had a deadly weapon. She used this weapon to kill a person. We cannot call this kind of action an "accident", any more than when a drunk driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. It was a error in judgment in the use of a deadly weapon, which resulted in bv the death of a person.

Why should this officer receive special treatment? Imagine a civilian in the same situation. They kill a person, but claim they only intended to intimidate and pulling the trigger was an accident. Is that a viable defense against a murder charge?
The cop has been forced for long hours under direction of instructors to repeatedly draw their gun when faced with adverse circumstances.

It is highly likely that the training to do so for a taser is lacking, and "training to draw exactly a _____ when drawing for a _____" is also probably lacking.

That is the defense against criminality.

It still shouldn't be defense of a job in law enforcement, and absolutely indicates a need for immediate mandatory re-training of the rest of the force. Or, see my last post.
You are asserting facts which I don't know to be in evidence. Whatever training this police department proscribed, this officer is the only one to kill someone because she mistook a pistol for a tazer. When a person runs over a pedestrian(it's been a bad day for pedestrians), we don't blame their driving instructor in an attempt to reduce the offense.

There maybe deficiencies in an organization, but every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions.
It's not "mistaken for". It's literally "reflexively retrieved." The failure here seems to be one of understanding how exactly we call our bodies to action. I could WANT to grab the tazer, do what I thought was grabbing it, and still be unable to in duress because of training and instead find a gun there.

It is not the kind of thing that comes down to culpability directly.

I absolutely WOULD blame a driving instructor and driving instruction course if it taught "drivers have the right of way at all times over pedestrians because pedestrians shouldn't be stupid about how dangerous cars are and it's their own damn fault", and then forced students to drill on that.

Criminal culpability requires a choice made by the agent held culpable. When there is only one dominant training which has created supremacy of a behavioral pattern as a response over the desired behavior, that is not going to be a true choice that can be made except in situations of extremely low duress.
If she didn't mistake her pistol for her taser, then it was an intentional act. If a police officer is to be excused of responsibility for shooting someone who should have been tased, we have just granted a license to kill.

This sounds more like a death which resulted not because of training, but the failure to benefit from it.

There were other police officers on the scene and none of them fired their weapon, thinking it was a taser. Police officers tase people on daily basis, but shoot relatively few when they intend to tase them. Why is this police officer entitled to special treatment after making an error in judgment which caused death?
Bronzeage, I don't know how to communicate to you the reality of being in the situation where training (or, lack of it) causes particular outcomes regardless of intent.

It is like when you ask someone to say a particular thing so many times that when you ask them to say something similar, they say the first thing. This is not "their mistake", but rather the result of your priming.

Police get special treatment because they are TRAINED to be a way, disciplined into a particular response pattern. This response pattern is not voluntary and treating the result of it as if it were is not reasonable. This is not a hill you should wish to fall on.

This individual is even more fucked up by training, insofar as she is in every single class, doing all those drills not once, but repeatedly, with every student. What may be for some people congested by a bit of training, her training is downright overgrown.

You have seen me argue various cases. You know I do not "always" support police; I rarely support police. But there are police actions which I have seen that I think people go off the deep end on. This is one of them.

Certainly, her career as a cop needs to end. But your other judgements of her are most certainly unwarranted.

There is a context to these actions. They are the actions of someone in a reflexive response. They are the actions of someone who drives the same pattern on the same road every day day in and day out driving that way even on the one day they needed to go the other way on one of the critical intersections.

It isn't a choice. It isn't even really on the level of "mistake" but on the level of "expected human error resulting from a pattern of behavior".

Regular "selection drills" would break this kind of association. The one thing this shooting indicates is a direct and immediate need for this specific format of training.

It is not sexy. It is ot even immediately emotionally satisfying. It feels like such an unsatisfying compromise to let someone who was material to the cause of such an event not see "consequences" (revenge), but that's one of the reasons I know it is the right course of action here.
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit.
Accidents happen and they are tragic. This woman going to prison isn't going to improve society. She needs to pay a cost, but time in prison doesn't seem appropriate. Our judicial system is wholly incapable of measuring out justice appropriately in so many cases.
By this reasoning, the person who incorrectly assembles a scaffold, which later collapses and kills a construction worker, should not face a prison sentence. The modern world is filled with situations where simple decisions made by a person who is in a position of responsibility can result in a loss of life.
I'm saying prison time /= justice. She made a terrible mistake, but I'm objecting to prison time being what pays for it.
The definition of first degree murder depends upon a state's specific definition. In my state, Louisiana, a charge of first degree murder is very rare because any element of emotional distress in the defendant can be used by the defense and reduce the charge to second degree. However, the law also allows a sentence of life without parole for some cases of second degree murder.
Isn't this manslaughter, not murder? I'm assuming that distinction matters in this state.
The term "Napoleonic Code" gets mentioned anytime Louisiana law is considered. What this means in bv reality is every degree of the a crime defined and has to meet certain criteria. Most appeals are based on an argument over degree.

In the case at hand, we need to recognize this is not a matter of an ordinarily innocuous object becoming deadly, such as knocking a flower pot off a 3rd floor window and killing a pedestrian.

This officer went into the situation knowing she had a deadly weapon. She used this weapon to kill a person. We cannot call this kind of action an "accident", any more than when a drunk driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. It was a error in judgment in the use of a deadly weapon, which resulted in bv the death of a person.

Why should this officer receive special treatment? Imagine a civilian in the same situation. They kill a person, but claim they only intended to intimidate and pulling the trigger was an accident. Is that a viable defense against a murder charge?
1) she is a cop, and her job requires us to provide some level of leniency due to the nature of the job.
2) there appears no criminal intent

To be clear, she is guilty of something, but I don't think her going to prison makes this right.
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit.
Accidents happen and they are tragic. This woman going to prison isn't going to improve society. She needs to pay a cost, but time in prison doesn't seem appropriate. Our judicial system is wholly incapable of measuring out justice appropriately in so many cases.
By this reasoning, the person who incorrectly assembles a scaffold, which later collapses and kills a construction worker, should not face a prison sentence. The modern world is filled with situations where simple decisions made by a person who is in a position of responsibility can result in a loss of life.
I'm saying prison time /= justice. She made a terrible mistake, but I'm objecting to prison time being what pays for it.
The definition of first degree murder depends upon a state's specific definition. In my state, Louisiana, a charge of first degree murder is very rare because any element of emotional distress in the defendant can be used by the defense and reduce the charge to second degree. However, the law also allows a sentence of life without parole for some cases of second degree murder.
Isn't this manslaughter, not murder? I'm assuming that distinction matters in this state.
The term "Napoleonic Code" gets mentioned anytime Louisiana law is considered. What this means in bv reality is every degree of the a crime defined and has to meet certain criteria. Most appeals are based on an argument over degree.

In the case at hand, we need to recognize this is not a matter of an ordinarily innocuous object becoming deadly, such as knocking a flower pot off a 3rd floor window and killing a pedestrian.

This officer went into the situation knowing she had a deadly weapon. She used this weapon to kill a person. We cannot call this kind of action an "accident", any more than when a drunk driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. It was a error in judgment in the use of a deadly weapon, which resulted in bv the death of a person.

Why should this officer receive special treatment? Imagine a civilian in the same situation. They kill a person, but claim they only intended to intimidate and pulling the trigger was an accident. Is that a viable defense against a murder charge?
1) she is a cop, and her job requires us to provide some level of leniency due to the nature of the job.
2) there appears no criminal intent

To be clear, she is guilty of something, but I don't think her going to prison makes this right.
I disagree that in this exact moment she was guilty of anything, any more than the computer is guilty of crashing when you put a bad program on it.

She is "guilty of doing what she had been trained to do through years of intense repetition."

I do not give her leniency because her job is hard. I have done and will probably in the future do harder jobs. It is not who she works for, nor what benefits arise from her doing it that motivate leniency. It's not even leniency that I think she deserves.

I think the cop here deserves help and understanding, just as much as the victim, and I think that because she was systematically broken, and I know this because I have seen the inside of a training regiment and how such are designed to rebuild reflexes towards new and more strategic responses.

If a mistake was made it was in the training given, and received, by the officer and the lack of balance in it. I don't see her having leverage there, therefore I don't see her having guilt.

The response is to remove the hand with the ruined reflexes from a position where those reflexes will potentially kill someone. The hand was ruined by ignorance and bad cultural focus.

When designing actual policy to FIX this kind of thing, and prevent it from happening and yes, to actually generate culpability, training needs to be made prevalent and dominant so that proper selection is a reflexive action, preferring responses directed towards taser retrieval over gun.
 
1) she is a cop, and her job requires us to provide some level of leniency due to the nature of the job.
2) there appears no criminal intent

To be clear, she is guilty of something, but I don't think her going to prison makes this right.
I disagree that in this exact moment she was guilty of anything, any more than the computer is guilty of crashing when you put a bad program on it.
I was pondering the term negligence in her case. It depends on what we consider a negligent homicide. Is negligent homicide shooting wildly around? Is negligent homicide using a taser instead of a gun? Is negligent homicide using the wrong weapon in a situation where the right weapon was not necessary? I don't know.

From video evidence, criminal intent does exist, and for me, if it isn't criminal intent, the price she needs to pay needs to overlap this reality.
She is "guilty of doing what she had been trained to do through years of intense repetition."

I do not give her leniency because her job is hard. I have done and will probably in the future do harder jobs. It is not who she works for, nor what benefits arise from her doing it that motivate leniency. It's not even leniency that I think she deserves.

I think the cop here deserves help and understanding, just as much as the victim, and I think that because she was systematically broken, and I know this because I have seen the inside of a training regiment and how such are designed to rebuild reflexes towards new and more strategic responses.

If a mistake was made it was in the training given, and received, by the officer and the lack of balance in it. I don't see her having leverage there, therefore I don't see her having guilt.

The response is to remove the hand with the ruined reflexes from a position where those reflexes will potentially kill someone. The hand was ruined by ignorance and bad cultural focus.

When designing actual policy to FIX this kind of thing, and prevent it from happening and yes, to actually generate culpability, training needs to be made prevalent and dominant so that proper selection is a reflexive action, preferring responses directed towards taser retrieval over gun.
I agree with about all of that. Did none of the other officers notice she didn't have a taser? There are many layers to this case which makes it very complicated, especially in a situation where intent to kill did not exist. There have been many cases where officers used inappropriate force, which could also be attached to training as well, but here, she appeared to be tunnel visioned and made a tragic error.
 
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit. For 2nd degree, it seems that it would need to be considered negligence for any copy to carry both a gun and a taser.
I think context matters in this situation. Being an experienced firearms instructor and confusing the gun with a taser can be construed as negligence.
Not to mention that as I said repeatedly about this it comes down to muscle memory in that if you are only generally drilling on drawing the gun, and not drilling against cross-confusion, you will be drawing your gun instead of your taser.

This is entirely a failure of training, and the officers so failed by their training may be ruined without extensive and what I think ought be mandatory re-training.

But I don't blame the cop in this one.

I'm not at all sure it can be trained out. You have two muscle memory paths, how do you train against inadvertent capture by the wrong one??
 
1) she is a cop, and her job requires us to provide some level of leniency due to the nature of the job.
2) there appears no criminal intent

To be clear, she is guilty of something, but I don't think her going to prison makes this right.
I disagree that in this exact moment she was guilty of anything, any more than the computer is guilty of crashing when you put a bad program on it.
I was pondering the term negligence in her case. It depends on what we consider a negligent homicide. Is negligent homicide shooting wildly around? Is negligent homicide using a taser instead of a gun? Is negligent homicide using the wrong weapon in a situation where the right weapon was not necessary? I don't know.

From video evidence, criminal intent does exist, and for me, if it isn't criminal intent, the price she needs to pay needs to overlap this reality.
She is "guilty of doing what she had been trained to do through years of intense repetition."

I do not give her leniency because her job is hard. I have done and will probably in the future do harder jobs. It is not who she works for, nor what benefits arise from her doing it that motivate leniency. It's not even leniency that I think she deserves.

I think the cop here deserves help and understanding, just as much as the victim, and I think that because she was systematically broken, and I know this because I have seen the inside of a training regiment and how such are designed to rebuild reflexes towards new and more strategic responses.

If a mistake was made it was in the training given, and received, by the officer and the lack of balance in it. I don't see her having leverage there, therefore I don't see her having guilt.

The response is to remove the hand with the ruined reflexes from a position where those reflexes will potentially kill someone. The hand was ruined by ignorance and bad cultural focus.

When designing actual policy to FIX this kind of thing, and prevent it from happening and yes, to actually generate culpability, training needs to be made prevalent and dominant so that proper selection is a reflexive action, preferring responses directed towards taser retrieval over gun.
I agree with about all of that. Did none of the other officers notice she didn't have a taser? There are many layers to this case which makes it very complicated, especially in a situation where intent to kill did not exist. There have been many cases where officers used inappropriate force, which could also be attached to training as well, but here, she appeared to be tunnel visioned and made a tragic error.
Yes. "Tragic error". The behavior is most certainly an artifact. Not all behavior is such an artifact
Yeah, I think it's obvious it was an accident. She is charged with 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter. I'm not clear on how the law would apply here, but 1st degree doesn't seem to fit. For 2nd degree, it seems that it would need to be considered negligence for any copy to carry both a gun and a taser.
I think context matters in this situation. Being an experienced firearms instructor and confusing the gun with a taser can be construed as negligence.
Not to mention that as I said repeatedly about this it comes down to muscle memory in that if you are only generally drilling on drawing the gun, and not drilling against cross-confusion, you will be drawing your gun instead of your taser.

This is entirely a failure of training, and the officers so failed by their training may be ruined without extensive and what I think ought be mandatory re-training.

But I don't blame the cop in this one.

I'm not at all sure it can be trained out. You have two muscle memory paths, how do you train against inadvertent capture by the wrong one??
In the army, training against inadvertent path capture was done through repeated response path association. Training for long hours to have a cue where the person is to draw exactly as they intend.
 
Kim Potter Trial: Former Officer’s Supervisor Testifies She Was Justified Using Deadly Force

Otherwise, the trial is a farce. The prosecution is laying o emotional appeal pretty thick with irrelevancies about how he gasped for air or how he had unprotected sex. Meanwhile, the defense can't bring up the robberies and shootings he was involved in.
It appears that you are arguing the prosecutor's arguments are irrelevant, so the defense should be able to bring up irrelevancies. Describing the death is common in trials, so that is not irrelevant. I agree that the unprotected sex appears irrelevant.

Mr. Wright's past actions are irrelevant to this particular tragedy.

Ms. Potter killed Mr. Wright. Given the long and documented history of inaction on the part of the police in the area to adequately investigate these types of actions, there is little or no community trust in their determinations. These trials are the result of a history of leniency towards the police that have lead to this distrust.
 
I think it was an accident, however, the police force should not ignore that they made the mistake that caused the death of a member of the community they are there to protect. The right thing to do is give condolences to the family, don't stand in the way of them seeking a reasonable remedy. Preemptively recognize the issue by making a change in training and naming it after the victim (with the family's permission). But instead what we'll get is a police department covering their ass, treating the deceased as just a criminal we're better off without, and a bewildered face when the community says fuck off.

Edit: by preemptively I mean get in front of the issue. Don't wait for your community to show up with no justice no peace signs.
 
I think it was an accident, however, the police force should not ignore that they made the mistake that caused the death of a member of the community they are there to protect. The right thing to do is give condolences to the family, don't stand in the way of them seeking a reasonable remedy. Preemptively recognize the issue by making a change in training and naming it after the victim (with the family's permission). But instead what we'll get is a police department covering their ass, treating the deceased as just a criminal we're better off without, and a bewildered face when the community says fuck off.

Edit: by preemptively I mean get in front of the issue. Don't wait for your community to show up with no justice no peace signs.
I can find absolutely nothing wrong with this, either in content nor completeness.
 
I think it was an accident, however, the police force should not ignore that they made the mistake that caused the death of a member of the community they are there to protect. The right thing to do is give condolences to the family, don't stand in the way of them seeking a reasonable remedy. Preemptively recognize the issue by making a change in training and naming it after the victim (with the family's permission). But instead what we'll get is a police department covering their ass, treating the deceased as just a criminal we're better off without, and a bewildered face when the community says fuck off.

Edit: by preemptively I mean get in front of the issue. Don't wait for your community to show up with no justice no peace signs.
I can find absolutely nothing wrong with this, either in content nor completeness.

I'm certain some members here don't agree. They'll just see this as me supporting a criminal. :rolleyes:
 
I think it was an accident, however, the police force should not ignore that they made the mistake that caused the death of a member of the community they are there to protect. The right thing to do is give condolences to the family, don't stand in the way of them seeking a reasonable remedy. Preemptively recognize the issue by making a change in training and naming it after the victim (with the family's permission). But instead what we'll get is a police department covering their ass, treating the deceased as just a criminal we're better off without, and a bewildered face when the community says fuck off.

Edit: by preemptively I mean get in front of the issue. Don't wait for your community to show up with no justice no peace signs.
I can find absolutely nothing wrong with this, either in content nor completeness.

I'm certain some members here don't agree. They'll just see this as me supporting a criminal. :rolleyes:
Well, at least there is nothing that can be said to answer my assessment other than holding up a piece of it and demonstrating incoherency.

You have said nothing about the criminal in support, in fact. You have supported the police here, both in their level of culpability and in actually directing constructive input.
 
Wait, I'm sorry, I haven't been following this trial, the defense brought up the fact that Wright had unprotected sex? Why?
 
I think it was an accident, however, the police force should not ignore that they made the mistake that caused the death of a member of the community they are there to protect. The right thing to do is give condolences to the family, don't stand in the way of them seeking a reasonable remedy. Preemptively recognize the issue by making a change in training and naming it after the victim (with the family's permission). But instead what we'll get is a police department covering their ass, treating the deceased as just a criminal we're better off without, and a bewildered face when the community says fuck off.

Edit: by preemptively I mean get in front of the issue. Don't wait for your community to show up with no justice no peace signs.
I can find absolutely nothing wrong with this, either in content nor completeness.

I'm certain some members here don't agree. They'll just see this as me supporting a criminal. :rolleyes:
I agree almost entirely. Where I disagree is that I believe that police officers, whose job requires that they be armed in order to protect the citizenry, have an additional burden of using such weapons with a higher degree of precision and responsibility than your average criminal on the street. Potter is more culpable because she was a police officer.

As for why Wright's parenthood was brought up at all: to humanize him and to counter the attempts to label him as a dangerous criminal who was surely about to murder police officers. We demonize criminals all the time--it makes it so much easier to dismiss the need for compassion or mercy or in this case, basic competence and care with deadly weapons. If Wright were only a criminal, little more than an animal, then Potter's crime would be negligible at worst, and to some, almost laudable.
 
I think it was an accident, however, the police force should not ignore that they made the mistake that caused the death of a member of the community they are there to protect. The right thing to do is give condolences to the family, don't stand in the way of them seeking a reasonable remedy. Preemptively recognize the issue by making a change in training and naming it after the victim (with the family's permission). But instead what we'll get is a police department covering their ass, treating the deceased as just a criminal we're better off without, and a bewildered face when the community says fuck off.

Edit: by preemptively I mean get in front of the issue. Don't wait for your community to show up with no justice no peace signs.
I can find absolutely nothing wrong with this, either in content nor completeness.

I'm certain some members here don't agree. They'll just see this as me supporting a criminal. :rolleyes:
I agree almost entirely. Where I disagree is that I believe that police officers, whose job requires that they be armed in order to protect the citizenry, have an additional burden of using such weapons with a higher degree of precision and responsibility than your average criminal on the street. Potter is more culpable because she was a police officer.

As for why Wright's parenthood was brought up at all: to humanize him and to counter the attempts to label him as a dangerous criminal who was surely about to murder police officers. We demonize criminals all the time--it makes it so much easier to dismiss the need for compassion or mercy or in this case, basic competence and care with deadly weapons. If Wright were only a criminal, little more than an animal, then Potter's crime would be negligible at worst, and to some, almost laudable.
Only insofar as one understands how the society and culture addresses this need, namely through training.

Officers have little decision n of how they are trained, or even what they do to train others. It comes down to institutional policy and in this kind of incident, the reflex derived is directly attributable beyond all other effects of reasonable impact to the training model.

As the person repeating that training model, they are likewise the one likely hardest hit by the failures caused by it.

Here the cop is a victim of bad training. Certainly not as much as Duante, but still a victim.

More pertinent is whether someone damaged this way is also a victim of "an event that renders clarity over the fact that they are not and have not been, and may never again be capable of being a competent police officer."
 
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