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Define God Thread

I also think it misses the point. God is more than anything an emotional construct. Theists have created God to fill various holes in their hearts. What function does that God-idea serve in the theists life?

It's a much more basic and easier topic to discuss.

There's nothing wrong about a vague definition of God, as long as it comes with a concrete emotional reaction in the theist. At this point still clinging to God as something physically real is... well... that train left the station a couple of hundred years ago. Philosophy has moved on since then.

Just came to think of something. God doesn't really exist, in a physical sense. That's literally what supernatural means. Something beyond the physical world. Imaginary things certainly are supernatural.

Perhaps more 'infranatural'. Or 'subnormal'.
Just plain "unnatural" is fine. And that's the kicker because by all simple reasoning, nothing "unnatural" can possibly exist. It must be "pretended" into existence like the impossible plot of a movie.

If a "god" in the theistic sense is real then anything goes, no matter how bizarre or impossible. If I can think it, it is real.
 
Here's a stab at what I think is going on:

Lexicographers observe in objective fashion a vast number of fluent speakers' usage of words and try to hone in on crafting an explanatory definition with a scope reflective of common usage.
Exactly.

A long, protracted, somewhat messy process where "collective usage" doesn't figure as an agent, only individuals, with all their flaws and subjectivity. Collective usage, there, is what the lexicographers can only hope to pin down, not something holding the pen of the lexicographers. It is the hoped-for result and it's no better than saying, "I tried my best to find the best definition I could". And the entity doing the judgement here is the individual, if that.
EB

It's still the case that the lexical meaning of a term is independent of what any one individual may have in mind. A words lexical meaning (as a function of fluent collective usage) is a far cry different than a stipulative or personal meaning (as a function of anyone's personal bias).
 
Perhaps more 'infranatural'. Or 'subnormal'.
Just plain "unnatural" is fine. And that's the kicker because by all simple reasoning, nothing "unnatural" can possibly exist. It must be "pretended" into existence like the impossible plot of a movie.

Unnatural in contexts such as: GMO's - plants, animals, and other "artificial" processes and similar are things that do exist in this regard.

Your use of "unnatural" is fine by me. Its not an issue - no need to ask you to "define" what you mean by "unnatural" as I understand your use of the word here.


If a "god" in the theistic sense is real then anything goes, no matter how bizarre or impossible. If I can think it, it is real.

God is real , I am assuming as acceptable, wouldn't neccessarily mean just giving licence for anything goes, bizarre or impossible to be real also.
(If I'm reading correctly your post)
 
God is real , I am assuming as acceptable, wouldn't necessarily mean just giving licence for anything goes, bizarre or impossible to be real also.
(If I'm reading correctly your post)
Don't just make the assertion. Explain it. Why wouldn't it be license for anything goes?

Of course people have their favorite imaginary beings. Some people really do still believe in fairies. None of the fairy or elf believers would think "that means anything a person might imagine will qualify as real for having been imagined", because they reserve that to their own imaginations. They have their reasons to think "this is better than the other possibilities" too.
 
"Perfect being" has yet to be defined meaningfully.
You are pulling my leg. I don't believe for a moment anybody sensible really would need any explanation at all.

Still, by "being", we mean something essentially similar to a human being and human beings will have an intuitive notion of what they are (rightly or wrongly) and therefore what it is essentially to be a being. So Gog is just similar to a human being, only he is perfect. He is also unique and he created the universe and mankind with it. He may also be many other things we don't know as long as they wouldn't detract from his being perfect etc.

The term "perfect" is similarly intuitive. Human beings have a natural tendency to compare each other. We talk of "good" and "bad" men or women and we categorise qualities and flaws quite minutely. So God has all the qualities (maximally) and none of the flaws.

I don't think this is even controversial. We all have this conception in mind. It is intuitive. To suggest it is not meaningful would amount to a redefinition of the concept of meaningfulness. In which case, nothing of what we say would be meaningful. And yet, here we are, talking.
EB

Human beings are biological creatures with personalities and abilities dependent on their biology and environment. Is that what God is like? Humans behave as they do as a social species. Is God a social being? Who does God socialize with?

And "perfect" is vague when applied to a being. You earlier said,

Perfection here means God lacks no quality and that he didn't have to be created to exist, unlike anything that isn't God himself.

It also means he cannot be made to cease to exist and cannot be corrupted, i.e. he cannot loose any quality.

That's sort of thing.

"Lacking no quality" is unhelpful since it could mean it has contradictory qualities. Which qualities doesn't it lack? You're not very specific. People's general sense of what they mean by good and bad does not tell you what is perfect. Is it a consensus thing?

You also haven't said whether this definition is based on any evidence or is only your imagination or something else.

The request in the op and your reply were:

Each person gets to create their own, personal definition of God.

Did it create the universe? Was it a primordial consciousness that arose out of various conscious experiences and interactions to guide other consciousnesses towards greater experience of unity (like an "intelligent" human)?

Logically inconsistent or contradictory definitions are not acceptable.

God cannot both be the sole creator of the universe and not be the sole creator of the universe. One or the other.

Introduce characteristics in list form, so that specific characteristics can be addressed:

1) God is X.
a,b,c... evidence that supports this claim
2) God does Y.
a,b,c... evidence that supports this claim
3) God likes pie.
a,b,c... evidence that supports this claim

If characteristics 1 and 3 are contradictory (1) God hates pie in all cases, 3) God likes pie), pick only one of them to make your full definition logically consistent.

If you claim something like "God created a multiverse, in which all possible things happen happen, and we happen to be in one of the branches", what you've said is logically consistent, but vague, as this God might or might not matter in our lives, depending on whether the God reacts to and interacts with the multiverse it created. So you'd need to extend the definition.

Anyway you take it from here...

1. God is a perfect being
2. God is unique (he is the only perfect being)
3. God created the universe where we are
EB

You haven't give any evidence to support your 3 points.
 
Don't just make the assertion. Explain it. Why wouldn't it be license for anything goes?

Ah ok, I may have read the quote incorrectly then . The sentence "If a "god" in the theistic sense is real", previously gave me the idea to assume this was taken as acceptance or rather the biblical God was "established" as "real". The reason why I thought to 'not give license to just anything without the same criteria for real.
Of course people have their favorite imaginary beings. Some people really do still believe in fairies. None of the fairy or elf believers would think "that means anything a person might imagine will qualify as real for having been imagined", because they reserve that to their own imaginations. They have their reasons to think "this is better than the other possibilities" too.
My mistake on this context to real (not really real), got no problem with anything goes in this regard.
 
Ah ok, I may have read the quote incorrectly then . The sentence "If a "god" in the theistic sense is real", previously gave me the idea to assume this was taken as acceptance or rather the biblical God was "established" as "real". The reason why I thought to 'not give license to just anything without the same criteria for real.
But there's no criteria for 'real' in this case. It's just an if. Assume for the sake of argument that god is real, then we can assume, for the same sake, that anything and everything is real.
So your god isn't 'established' any more than Batman, Cthulhu, the Fat Kid in a Gary Larson cartoon...
 
A more accurate image for theism than blind guys feeling an elephant would be blind guys feeling themselves.

An elephant at least is detectable, and the whole elephant too by sighted persons, so it's not a good analogy to god.
Blind guys feeling themselves is a good analogy.

However, this is exactly what is already the case. We are conscious of ourselves and there's no difference between that and feeling ourselves, or at least a certain part of ourselves.

And I take the idea of God in monotheist religions to be rooted in that experience. Whereas previous religions thought of gods as some kind of superheroes, monotheist religions see God as a being essentially similar to the being we experience ourselves to be, only a perfect one, which is the next logical step coming after previous religions seeing gods as imperfect but still powerful superheroes.

And then, once we have this concept of God as perfect being, we can reframe ourselves as a creation of that being, only imperfect creations. Essentially like God, but imperfect.

And this explains quite nicely why we have all these problems, with Trump and whatnot. We are imperfect.
EB
 
Exactly.

A long, protracted, somewhat messy process where "collective usage" doesn't figure as an agent, only individuals, with all their flaws and subjectivity. Collective usage, there, is what the lexicographers can only hope to pin down, not something holding the pen of the lexicographers. It is the hoped-for result and it's no better than saying, "I tried my best to find the best definition I could". And the entity doing the judgement here is the individual, if that.
EB

It's still the case that the lexical meaning of a term is independent of what any one individual may have in mind. A words lexical meaning (as a function of fluent collective usage) is a far cry different than a stipulative or personal meaning (as a function of anyone's personal bias).

That's your personally biased belief. What any individual means is just that. There's no spooky action at a distance from the "community of fluent speakers" to tell you what word to use to mean what you want to mean. Otherwise, we couldn't show the creativity and inventiveness we do see in the use of words. Instead of your notion of meaning, there are individual meanings, each speaker more or less influenced by his personal experience in terms of linguistic interactions with other speakers. This views is good enough to explain how we use words. Your notion is a convenient fiction but it's a much less accurate representation of how things really work than the idea that a community of speech is just a group of people a liberty to interact linguistically and some memory.
EB
 
You are pulling my leg. I don't believe for a moment anybody sensible really would need any explanation at all.

Still, by "being", we mean something essentially similar to a human being and human beings will have an intuitive notion of what they are (rightly or wrongly) and therefore what it is essentially to be a being. So Gog is just similar to a human being, only he is perfect. He is also unique and he created the universe and mankind with it. He may also be many other things we don't know as long as they wouldn't detract from his being perfect etc.

The term "perfect" is similarly intuitive. Human beings have a natural tendency to compare each other. We talk of "good" and "bad" men or women and we categorise qualities and flaws quite minutely. So God has all the qualities (maximally) and none of the flaws.

I don't think this is even controversial. We all have this conception in mind. It is intuitive. To suggest it is not meaningful would amount to a redefinition of the concept of meaningfulness. In which case, nothing of what we say would be meaningful. And yet, here we are, talking.
EB

Human beings are biological creatures with personalities and abilities dependent on their biology and environment. Is that what God is like?
I was referring to what we subjectively experience ourselves as being, not to what we are supposed to be according to some materialist theory that has only emerged relatively recently. The idea of God as a perfect being predates science, so you need to take the concept of being as I use it in context to understand it. Now, it's also a fact that this idea that we are essentially biological machines doesn't stop us subjectively experiencing ourselves as something else and this something else is precisely the kind of being you need to take as the one I am using in my definition. God is such a being, only he is perfect.

Humans behave as they do as a social species. Is God a social being? Who does God socialize with?
I didn't define God as a perfect human being. See above.


And "perfect" is vague when applied to a being.
The notion of perfection is not vague, it's just that I'm not perfect and I'm not a reliable source as to what are our qualities and what are our flaws.


You earlier said,

Perfection here means God lacks no quality and that he didn't have to be created to exist, unlike anything that isn't God himself.

It also means he cannot be made to cease to exist and cannot be corrupted, i.e. he cannot loose any quality.

That's sort of thing.

"Lacking no quality" is unhelpful since it could mean it has contradictory qualities. Which qualities doesn't it lack? You're not very specific. People's general sense of what they mean by good and bad does not tell you what is perfect. Is it a consensus thing?
I would assume that qualities cannot be contradictory. Our judgement as to qualities is clearly unreliable.



You also haven't said whether this definition is based on any evidence or is only your imagination or something else.
I believe I already said it: this definition is my best guess as to what people think, without any unnecessary stuff and unhelpful contradictions. So, it's what I think would be the best definition of God there is without being too far removed from what most people have in mind.

The request in the op and your reply were:

Each person gets to create their own, personal definition of God.

Did it create the universe? Was it a primordial consciousness that arose out of various conscious experiences and interactions to guide other consciousnesses towards greater experience of unity (like an "intelligent" human)?

Logically inconsistent or contradictory definitions are not acceptable.

God cannot both be the sole creator of the universe and not be the sole creator of the universe. One or the other.

Introduce characteristics in list form, so that specific characteristics can be addressed:

1) God is X.
a,b,c... evidence that supports this claim
2) God does Y.
a,b,c... evidence that supports this claim
3) God likes pie.
a,b,c... evidence that supports this claim

If characteristics 1 and 3 are contradictory (1) God hates pie in all cases, 3) God likes pie), pick only one of them to make your full definition logically consistent.

If you claim something like "God created a multiverse, in which all possible things happen happen, and we happen to be in one of the branches", what you've said is logically consistent, but vague, as this God might or might not matter in our lives, depending on whether the God reacts to and interacts with the multiverse it created. So you'd need to extend the definition.

Anyway you take it from here...

1. God is a perfect being
2. God is unique (he is the only perfect being)
3. God created the universe where we are
EB

You haven't give any evidence to support your 3 points.
And the OP didn't require to provide evidence.

However, I did explain how people could happen to have all the necessary evidence justifying their own belief, namely that God could choose to provide people with the knowledge of his existence. And if you have the knowledge then you know God exists and if you know God exists then he exists. I think this has to be good enough in the context.
EB
 
A more accurate image for theism than blind guys feeling an elephant would be blind guys feeling themselves.

An elephant at least is detectable, and the whole elephant too by sighted persons, so it's not a good analogy to god.
Blind guys feeling themselves is a good analogy.

However, this is exactly what is already the case. We are conscious of ourselves and there's no difference between that and feeling ourselves, or at least a certain part of ourselves.

And I take the idea of God in monotheist religions to be rooted in that experience. Whereas previous religions thought of gods as some kind of superheroes, monotheist religions see God as a being essentially similar to the being we experience ourselves to be, only a perfect one, which is the next logical step coming after previous religions seeing gods as imperfect but still powerful superheroes.

And then, once we have this concept of God as perfect being, we can reframe ourselves as a creation of that being, only imperfect creations. Essentially like God, but imperfect.

And this explains quite nicely why we have all these problems, with Trump and whatnot. We are imperfect.
EB

Correct. We are not imagined. We are real.

And this is the failure of the perfection argument nicely demonstrated. The flaw with the perfection argument is made clear when one substitutes the word "imagined" for "perfect." Then it makes sense. For example:

"And then, once we have this concept of God as imagined being, we can reframe ourselves as a creation of that being, only not imagined creations. Essentially like God, but real."
 
It's still the case that the lexical meaning of a term is independent of what any one individual may have in mind. A words lexical meaning (as a function of fluent collective usage) is a far cry different than a stipulative or personal meaning (as a function of anyone's personal bias).

That's your personally biased belief. What any individual means is just that. There's no spooky action at a distance from the "community of fluent speakers" to tell you what word to use to mean what you want to mean. Otherwise, we couldn't show the creativity and inventiveness we do see in the use of words. Instead of your notion of meaning, there are individual meanings, each speaker more or less influenced by his personal experience in terms of linguistic interactions with other speakers. This views is good enough to explain how we use words. Your notion is a convenient fiction but it's a much less accurate representation of how things really work than the idea that a community of speech is just a group of people a liberty to interact linguistically and some memory.
EB
Hog...wash; hogwash!

:D

Better than bull, eh.

No, the lexical definition reflects lexical meaning. Written definitions can be found in dictionaries.

If you want to learn what a word means, then you can be correctly taught how it's collectively used by fluent speakers, either by consulting a dictionary or someone who can relay how it's collectively used, not how Jimbob just so happens to use it and not by how you can use it similarly yet differently. I'm not denying individual usage, but individual usage in the here and now has no immediate bearing on lexical meaning.
 
That's your personally biased belief. What any individual means is just that. There's no spooky action at a distance from the "community of fluent speakers" to tell you what word to use to mean what you want to mean. Otherwise, we couldn't show the creativity and inventiveness we do see in the use of words. Instead of your notion of meaning, there are individual meanings, each speaker more or less influenced by his personal experience in terms of linguistic interactions with other speakers. This views is good enough to explain how we use words. Your notion is a convenient fiction but it's a much less accurate representation of how things really work than the idea that a community of speech is just a group of people a liberty to interact linguistically and some memory.
EB
Hog...wash; hogwash!

:D

Better than bull, eh.

No, the lexical definition reflects lexical meaning.
Poppycock.

Take the time to check with what dictionaries actually say before asserting poppycock.




Written definitions can be found in dictionaries.
Sure, and yet, different dictionaries, see a good example below, may disagree substantially, just as individual speakers may mean something different when they use a word.

Collins English Dictionary said:
lexical meaning n. (Linguistics) the meaning of a word in relation to the physical world or to abstract concepts, without reference to any sentence in which the word may occur. Compare grammatical meaning, content word
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

Webster's College Dictionary said:
lexical meaning n. the meaning of a base morpheme or word, independent of its use within a construction. Compare grammatical meaning. [1930–35]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.
See?

Welcome to the real world.


And then the way you yourself use the expression "lexical meaning" is wrong.

The way you yourself use the expression "lexical meaning" isn't even in line with any of the two definitions above.

I think you are wrongly interpreting the term "lexical" in "lexical meaning" to connote "lexicon", when here it just connotes "words" ('items in a language").

The lexical meaning of a word is its root meaning as opposed to its meaning in context (or grammatical meaning). It's not a question that it is to be found in dictionaries.

You are also confusing the fact that dictionaries provide definitions meant to reflect usage with the idea that usage is what dictionaries say it is. But that's clearly not true as evidenced by the fact that different dictionaries can give substantially different definitions of the same word as in my example above.

You are also probably mistaking the expression "lexical meaning" with the expression "lexical definition", which seems to correspond to what you mean. See below:

Wiki "lexical definition" said:
The lexical definition of a term, also known as the dictionary definition, is the meaning of the term in common usage.
See?


If you want to learn what a word means, then you can be correctly taught how it's collectively used by fluent speakers, either by consulting a dictionary or someone who can relay how it's collectively used,
It necessarily wrong since words don't mean anything by themselves.

So all you will get in a dictionary is what the lexicographer believes how the word is used. But by whom is the word used? They don't say. If there is a bias, they won't tell you. And, there is necessarily a bias because dictionaries are commercial products, and they don't exist in a social or political vacuum. Look up old dictionaries. You'll see how biased they are.


not how Jimbob just so happens to use it and not by how you can use it similarly yet differently. I'm not denying individual usage, but individual usage in the here and now has no immediate bearing on lexical meaning.
You don't understand what I am saying.

I'm not saying that the correct meaning of a word is whatever John Doe will say it is. I dispute the fact that there is any correct meaning at all.

Different linguistic agents, from individuals to institutions, will influence the community of speakers as to how a word is used and since there is a multiplicity of agents, it is to be expected that the same word will be used substantially differently in various part of the community, down to individual speakers, but also by different institutions. To claim that individual speakers are always wrong is merely to side with the institutional power of the moment, which is both pathetic and mistaken. If you were correct, we wouldn't see any evolution in usage. We also wouldn't see the creativity and inventiveness people display in everyday use and yet understand each other well enough.
EB
 
Too narrow.
Theism should include vague beleifs as "there must be something more out there".
The vagueness shouldnt disqualify it.

I also think it misses the point. God is more than anything an emotional construct. Theists have created God to fill various holes in their hearts. What function does that God-idea serve in the theists life?

It's a much more basic and easier topic to discuss.

There's nothing wrong about a vague definition of God, as long as it comes with a concrete emotional reaction in the theist. At this point still clinging to God as something physically real is... well... that train left the station a couple of hundred years ago. Philosophy has moved on since then.

Just came to think of something. God doesn't really exist, in a physical sense. That's literally what supernatural means. Something beyond the physical world. Imaginary things certainly are supernatural.

A definition shouldn't be vague; it should shoot for, well, definiteness. If you allow too much vagueness, you wind up with a word that is just meaningless, incoherent. (Which, I submit, is already true of 'god(s)'.)

As I said here-
I don't think we have a completely logical argument for atheism. This is because the terms- well, term, actually- is too incoherent; we don't have an adequate and non-self-contradictory definition of 'god', and without such a definition no logical argument, pro or con, is possible. Logic is an attempt to apply mathematical strictures to language, and is useful only insofar as we can define the relevant terms precisely.

I think that, like aleprechaunism and aSantaism and aboogiemanism, atheism needs no logical proof, because it offers no *thing* to be proven. It only declares an absence; to disprove it would require only the demonstration of what is declared absent- god(s).

A logical argument for theism would first require a definition of an existent god- preferably by demonstration. Otherwise, since the central term is undefined, any logical argument for its existence is meaningless.
 
I also think it misses the point. God is more than anything an emotional construct. Theists have created God to fill various holes in their hearts. What function does that God-idea serve in the theists life?

It's a much more basic and easier topic to discuss.

There's nothing wrong about a vague definition of God, as long as it comes with a concrete emotional reaction in the theist. At this point still clinging to God as something physically real is... well... that train left the station a couple of hundred years ago. Philosophy has moved on since then.

Just came to think of something. God doesn't really exist, in a physical sense. That's literally what supernatural means. Something beyond the physical world. Imaginary things certainly are supernatural.

A definition shouldn't be vague; it should shoot for, well, definiteness. If you allow too much vagueness, you wind up with a word that is just meaningless, incoherent. (Which, I submit, is already true of 'god(s)'.)

As I said here-
I don't think we have a completely logical argument for atheism. This is because the terms- well, term, actually- is too incoherent; we don't have an adequate and non-self-contradictory definition of 'god', and without such a definition no logical argument, pro or con, is possible. Logic is an attempt to apply mathematical strictures to language, and is useful only insofar as we can define the relevant terms precisely.

I think that, like aleprechaunism and aSantaism and aboogiemanism, atheism needs no logical proof, because it offers no *thing* to be proven. It only declares an absence; to disprove it would require only the demonstration of what is declared absent- god(s).

A logical argument for theism would first require a definition of an existent god- preferably by demonstration. Otherwise, since the central term is undefined, any logical argument for its existence is meaningless.

But the emotional function in the believer is concrete. Then the definition is not vague. For example:

"Praying to God calms me down and night and fills me with joy. I imagine God being a powerful paternalistic force in full control of the world, who loves me and cares about me."

That's concrete. Because God doesn't matter. Only the theist matters.

Whether God really exists in the physical world.... I mean... let's move on. It's a ridiculous idea. Sure, there's theists on this forum who strongly believe that God is real. But there's anti-vaxxers and 9/11 truthers to. What's the point engaging with them? Their idea of reality is so bizarre and warped... Why even go there? I also don't think it's interesting. As far as I'm concerned God's existence was settled by the ancient Greeks. Darwin and Laplace did away with the last scientific requirements for a God.

I understand that there's a lot of people who firmly believe in a physical God. But that's no reason to start treating it with respect. That's how you lose your way intellectually.

The last couple of years I've done a lot of yoga, meditated and experimented with religion. We can influence our moods a lot with our beliefs. Even physically, we can transform ourselves. I once did a workshop with a dancer and he showed that believing different things about your body changed your posture. If you believe that your arm starts and your shoulder, your reach won't be as great as if you believe that your arm starts at the middle of the back. Try it. It's measurable. I gained 10 cm.

When I meditate or do yoga I believe in God. And when I'm done I stop. I scrub it from my mind until the next time I do it. It works. I'm still just as much an atheist as before. Actually more. Because I've gained a greater understanding what believing in God is for.

Today I see God as a mental tool we've invented because it can help us. But just like any powerful tool it can do a lot of damage and easily be abused. I see all the major religions today as nothing but abuses of that mental tool.

Anyhoo... that was my two cents.
 
Another definition of God:

1) God is a being that cares for good people

2) He is more powerful than any of the beings that exist in our universe

EB
 
Another definition of God:

1) God is a being that cares for good people

2) He is more powerful than any of the beings that exist in our universe

EB

Then we're back to where we started. What's the point of this definition? How does this God work? What is it for? Why define it this way?

I think it's a useless definition. It doesn't help us understand anything. As usual it's the theistic wet blanket they throw on any intelligent question on the matter to obfuscate the fact that they have no clue.
 
If Energy is the essence of matter, motion and life, perhaps an Atheist may say God is a metaphor for this all encompassing fact. Any scientists, especially those in physics could correct me there.
Why? Energy is that metaphore. We dont need another.

And what most theists believe about god doesnt fit at all.
 
Another definition of God:

1) God is a being that cares for good people

2) He is more powerful than any of the beings that exist in our universe

EB

Then we're back to where we started. What's the point of this definition? How does this God work? What is it for? Why define it this way?

I think it's a useless definition. It doesn't help us understand anything. As usual it's the theistic wet blanket they throw on any intelligent question on the matter to obfuscate the fact that they have no clue.

What's the texture of its skin, if it has skin? What colors does it give off? What sounds does it make? How does it move? How does it breathe? Does it have limbs? Does it have eyes, ears, teeth...? What does it eat? How big is it?

None of these questions will ever have a theistic answer because god is just an emotion, feelings that give way to thoughts. Some of those feelings are pretty good and some are vile, and such is the theistic god.
 
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