Defunding the Police?

[Trausti]

Ava DuVernay on Twitter: "This is a white woman talking honestly about her experiences and its one of the best threads on the criminalization of Black people that I’ve read lately." / Twitter
noting
Krista Vernoff on Twitter: "When I was 15 ..." / Twitter

When I was 15, I was chased through a mall by police who were yelling “Stop thief!” I had thousands of dollars of stolen merchandise on me. I was caught, booked, sentenced to 6 months of probation, required to see a parole officer weekly. I was never even handcuffed.

THREAD:

When I was 18, I was pulled over for drunk driving. When the Police Officer asked me to blow into the breathalyzer, I pretended to have asthma and insisted I couldn’t blow hard enough to get a reading. The officer laughed then asked my friends to blow and when one of them came up sober enough to drive, he let me move to the passenger seat of my car and go home with just a verbal warning.

When I was 19, I got angry at a girl for flirting with my sister’s boyfriend and drunkenly attacked her in the middle of a party. I swung a gallon jug of water, full force, at her head. The police were never called.

When I was twenty, with all of my strength, I punched a guy in the face -- while we were both standing two feet from a cop. The guy went to the ground and came up bloody and screaming that he wanted me arrested, that he was pressing charges. The cop pulled me aside and said, “You don’t punch people in front of cops,” then laughed and said that if I ever joined the police force he’d like to have me as a partner. I was sent into my apartment and told to stay there.

Between the ages of 11 and 22, my friends and I were chased and/or admonished by police on several occasions for drinking or doing illegal drugs on private property or in public. I have no criminal record.

If I had been shot in the back by police after the shoplifting incident - in which I knowingly and willfully and soberly and in broad daylight RAN FROM THE COPS – would you say I deserved it?

I’m asking the white people reading this to think about the crimes you’ve committed. (Note: You don't call them crimes. You and your parents call them mistakes.) Think of all the mistakes you’ve made that you were allowed to survive.

Defunding the police is not about “living in a lawless society.” It’s about the fact that in this country, we’re not supposed to get shot by police for getting drunk. The system that lets me live and murders Rayshard Brooks is a broken system that must change. Stop defending it. Demand the change. #BlackLivesMatter #WhitePrivilege #DefundPolice

Were the cops too soft on crime about her?

Isn’t this just female privilege?

 

[ronburgundy]

Having a conscience in a police department can be difficult.

A black Buffalo cop stopped another officer’s chokehold. She was fired. | CSNY

In 2006, Cariol Horne, a black Buffalo police officer, intervened when a white officer, Gregory Kwiatkowski, had a black suspect, David Mack, in a chokehold. Horne jumped on Kwiatkowski’s back to prevent him from harming Mack. In 2008, she was fired from the Buffalo Police Department for her intervention in that case and lost her pension.

...
“The police department didn’t believe her story, and they punished her severely,” Brenda McDuffie, president and CEO of the Buffalo Urban League, told City & State. “She lost her livelihood. I mean, which one of us who has any humanity, seeing someone choked to death, just like those officers (in Minneapolis) who should have said, ‘Get off his neck.’ ... Excessive force is something that we’re finally dealing with as a nation. But we had a woman in our community who stood up and she has suffered greatly.”

After she was fired, Horne worked several jobs to make ends meet. “It didn’t just affect me,” Horne told Spectrum News in 2016. “I have three sons that I have to worry about now. The message that they sent was clear: Even as a police officer, you don’t stand up against police brutality.”

Dollars to donuts (ha!) that the police union did nothing to defend her from being fired, if not actively supported it. They don't just protect bad cops, they prevent good cops from outing the bad ones. In fact, the "poisoned mikshake" incident in NYC proves they even engage in propaganda to smear the public as cop killers based on no evidence. Even if the Union bosses claims were not baseless and false, it isn't their proper role to be saying anything about such an incident. Their comments show that police unions are front line political actors in a war between the cops and the public welfare.



This article discusses other cases of police unions protecting the jobs of bad cops, in addition to research. A researcher in Victoria BC is has research showing that collective bargaining unions of police forces leads to slight increases in pay, but zero decrease in crime, and a significant increase in violence by cops, especially against minorities.

 

[ronburgundy]

Without the police, we get vigilante justice. Yeah karma!



alt

Um, that is with the police. The local police force exits, they were probably just too busy violating someone's civil rights to respond to the call. Or the mostly black locals handled it themselves b/c they knew that calling the cops would likely get one of them or another innocent black man in the area shot.

There's a case against "defunding" the police, but this ain't it. This is a case supporting the need for drastic reform of the police and the lack of trust in police that police brutality creates.

“Help, there’s a man beating a woman”!

“Thank you for your call. A social worker is on her way.”

Yeah, and that would be better than this situation where the nature of the current police force means that cops either weren't called out of rational fear, or they didn't come, or they threatened innocent people when they did show up. I'm against "defunding", but the solution to the problem is extreme reforms that include replacing many current officers, retraining the rest, and therefore busting the police union that impedes all real changes.

You must have worldclass skills in bullshit propaganda and lack of self awareness to use a video of an event with a fully funded police force as an example of what would happen without a police force.

 

[Trausti]

“Help, there’s a man beating a woman”!

“Thank you for your call. A social worker is on her way.”

Yeah, and that would be better than this situation where the nature of the current police force means that cops either weren't called out of rational fear, or they didn't come, or they threatened innocent people when they did show up. I'm against "defunding", but the solution to the problem is extreme reforms that include replacing many current officers, retraining the rest, and therefore busting the police union that impedes all real changes.

You must have worldclass skills in bullshit propaganda and lack of self awareness to use a video of an event with a fully funded police force as an example of what would happen without a police force.

Good point. The police weren’t called at all. And this is what you get.

 

[ronburgundy]

Good point. The police weren’t called at all. And this is what you get

It is what you get when the unchecked police engage in fascist brutality against a community for centuries and continue to do so. We need a law enforcement that innocent people aren't rationally afraid to call

 

[atrib]

“Help, there’s a man beating a woman”!

“Thank you for your call. A social worker is on her way.”

Yeah, and that would be better than this situation where the nature of the current police force means that cops either weren't called out of rational fear, or they didn't come, or they threatened innocent people when they did show up. I'm against "defunding", but the solution to the problem is extreme reforms that include replacing many current officers, retraining the rest, and therefore busting the police union that impedes all real changes.

You must have worldclass skills in bullshit propaganda and lack of self awareness to use a video of an event with a fully funded police force as an example of what would happen without a police force.

Good point. The police weren’t called at all. And this is what you get.

Hey, the people in the video didn't shoot anyone in the back as they were trying to run away, or asphyxiate someone lying handcuffed on the ground until they died, in broad daylight and in front of witnesses. Talk about anarchy!

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Teachers are paying out of pocket for school supplies, yet police are given extra tanks.
Budgets convey priorities.
We should question ours." / Twitter
then
Be A King on Twitter: "We must question ours.
As my father said, “A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense [militarism] than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.”" / Twitter

That's MLK's daughter  Bernice King, "Connector • Communicator • Community builder • CEO of Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change • Coretta Scott King matters"

As opposed to MLK's niece  Alveda King, who has become a right-winger.

 

[J842P]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Teachers are paying out of pocket for school supplies, yet police are given extra tanks.
Budgets convey priorities.
We should question ours." / Twitter
then
Be A King on Twitter: "We must question ours.
As my father said, “A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense [militarism] than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.”" / Twitter

That's MLK's daughter  Bernice King, "Connector • Communicator • Community builder • CEO of Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change • Coretta Scott King matters"

As opposed to MLK's niece  Alveda King, who has become a right-winger.

Both of them seem to be against gay marriage, and the niece is also pro-life. Neither of which should be surprising, given the fact that they are Christians.

Certainly, the older black generations, just like the older white generations, are pretty socially conservative. Again, not very surprising.

The abortion issue is similarly not surprising. Indeed, aside from the Christian element, there are a lot of ideas in Margaret Sanger's early advocacy for abortion, particularly in black communities, that are borderline eugenicist.

 

[lpetrich]

Senate Republicans reveal police reform bill that breaks with Democrats on key issues

• Incentivize law enforcement agencies to ban the use of chokeholds by tying funding to whether departments have prohibited the practice “except when deadly force is authorized”;
• Ramp up data collection efforts to track when an officer’s use of force results in death or serious harm;
• Provide federal money for additional training on alternatives to the use of force;
• Include language recognizing the history of lynching in the United States;
• Strengthen penalties for falsifying police reports;
• Require law enforcement agencies to send the attorney general reports on no-knock warrants;
• Create a commission to study issues that affect Black men and boys

...
Unlike the Democrats’ proposal, the Republican bill does not address the issue of qualified immunity, the doctrine that largely shields officers from legal liability unless a plaintiff can show that their constitutional rights were clearly violated. The Trump administration has said that amending qualified immunity is a “non starter.”

The Supreme Court said Monday that it will not hear cases addressing the doctrine of qualified immunity.

The GOP proposal also would not end the use of “no-knock” warrants in drug cases, as the Democratic bill does, and it would provide new funds to police departments for training.

McConnell promises quick action on GOP police reform, setting up showdown with Democrats - CNNPolitics

Good that the Senate Republicans have been goosed into action.

 

[repoman]

Don't judges have discretion to decide if qualified immunity is met for each case?

an 8 minute anaconda squeeze on the side of the neck is clearly on the other side of QI.

SCOTUS made it up after all.

 

[lpetrich]

READ: President Trump's executive order on police reform - CNN

Trump’s ‘woeful’ police reform order leaves systemic racism intact, critics say | US news | The Guardian

But while Trump’s remarks in the White House Rose Garden began with a sombre list of African Americans killed by police, they soon turned into something resembling a campaign speech, touting the stock market and retail sales and arguing “school choice” is the civil rights cause of our time.

Happy talk about right-wing causes and what a genius he is.

It uses federal government grants to encourage police departments to meet certain standards for use of force, including banning chokeholds – except in cases where an officer is targeted by deadly force.

The order also establishes a database for tracking officers with multiple complaints of misconduct and gives incentives to police departments to involve mental health professionals and social workers in issues of addiction, homelessness and mental illness.

But he couldn't help himself.

Trump bemoaned how many murders in Chicago and Baltimore did not result in arrests. “Americans want law and order,” he said. “They demand law and order. They may not say it. They may not be talking about it but that’s what they want. Some of them don’t even know that’s what they want, but that’s what they want.”

He added: “I strongly oppose the radical and dangerous efforts to defund, dismantle and dissolve our police departments, especially now when we achieved the lowest recorded crime rates in recent history. Americans know the truth: without police, there is chaos. Without law, there is anarchy.”

There are a “small number of bad police officers”, he added. “They are very tiny. I use the word ‘tiny’. It is a very small percentage. But you have them.”

 

[TV and credit cards]

Don't judges have discretion to decide if qualified immunity is met for each case?

an 8 minute anaconda squeeze on the side of the neck is clearly on the other side of QI.

SCOTUS made it up after all.

But they must get over the “clearly established” law hurdle. It is not enough the plaintiff show the defendant’s actions violated general principles of the law, they must show case law that is very similar or they must show the actions taken by the police were expressly forbidden.

 

[Jarhyn]

Don't judges have discretion to decide if qualified immunity is met for each case?

an 8 minute anaconda squeeze on the side of the neck is clearly on the other side of QI.

SCOTUS made it up after all.

But they must get over the “clearly established” law hurdle. It is not enough the plaintiff show the defendant’s actions violated general principles of the law, they must show case law that is very similar or they must show the actions taken by the police were expressly forbidden.

Repoman, Were you aware that judges have gone to the extent to ruling for qualified immunity when the "difference" is merely what kind of hole someone was hiding in, given the same ethical situation?

As long as this precedent stands, qualified immunity is going to be complete immunity, the real qualification being how much a piece of shit the judge is. And that is not an acceptable rubric.

 

[lpetrich]

Senate Democrats block GOP policing bill, calling it 'irrevocably flawed' and 'partisan'

Democrats want the bill to include bans on chokeholds and "no-knock" search warrants and to address qualified immunity, which shields police officers from lawsuits.

...
Unlike the measures recently introduced by House and Senate Democrats, the Republican bill would not include outright bans on chokeholds or "no-knock" search warrants and does not touch on qualified immunity, which shields police officers from lawsuits.

The GOP bill would try to incentivize police departments to largely do away with chokeholds by conditioning Justice Department money on restricting the practice. In addition, the legislation would collect data on the use of no-knock warrants, which allow police to enter a property without first knocking and announcing their presence.

While the Democratic bill would create a national registry for complaints and disciplinary records of officers and also require reporting on use-of-force incidents, the GOP measure would collect data only when police officers use force that results in serious injury or death.

 

[Trausti]

Don't judges have discretion to decide if qualified immunity is met for each case?

an 8 minute anaconda squeeze on the side of the neck is clearly on the other side of QI.

SCOTUS made it up after all.

There seems to be quite a lot of misunderstanding of Qualified Immunity. It flows from the 1964 Civil Rights Act. It relates to claims that a government official violated a person’s civil rights. Before the CRA you could not sue the government - the sovereign - for a civil rights violation. That’s why a civil right has to be clearly established. If a right is not clearly established, the government official is given reasonable discretion to exercise the government function. This is essentially a repurposing of the Constitution’s prohibition against ex post facto laws. And courts are not limited to exact prior precedent with the same facts. Courts can and do find against Qualified Immunity by analogy to other cases and circumstances.

 

[Mumbles]

“Help, there’s a man beating a woman”!

“Thank you for your call. A social worker is on her way.”

Yeah, and that would be better than this situation where the nature of the current police force means that cops either weren't called out of rational fear, or they didn't come, or they threatened innocent people when they did show up. I'm against "defunding", but the solution to the problem is extreme reforms that include replacing many current officers, retraining the rest, and therefore busting the police union that impedes all real changes.

You must have worldclass skills in bullshit propaganda and lack of self awareness to use a video of an event with a fully funded police force as an example of what would happen without a police force.

Good point. The police weren’t called at all. And this is what you get.

So the dude beat his girl, and got his ass whupped.

Wanna know why the NOI is still popular among older black folks? It's because they "take care of" this sort of guy while police driving around harassing people and ignoring actual violent crime.

Seems pretty normal to me. Can't expect police to respond even if they're called, or to actually protect the woman even if they *do* show up, or to use an appropriate amount of force if they try. So, the neighbors beat him in public instead. As others have said, when police can show that they can reliably do any of the above, then people will call them to do so. Until then, people will correctly view the cops as little more than another neighborhood menace.

 

[Derec]

Wanna know why the NOI is still popular among older black folks?

Because of disgusting anti-white racism and antisemitism?

It's because they "take care of" this sort of guy while police driving around harassing people and ignoring actual violent crime.

Evidence that police are "ignoring actual violent crime"?
The problem is that when police respond to "actual violent crime", anti-police activists like you still blame the police and insist that the perp "didn't do nothing".

 

[laughing dog]

Wanna know why the NOI is still popular among older black folks?

Because of disgusting anti-white racism and antisemitism?

That is really disingenuous, since the answer is in the next sentence.

Evidence that police are "ignoring actual violent crime"?
The problem is that when police respond to "actual violent crime", anti-police activists like you still blame the police and insist that the perp "didn't do nothing".

I like how you first demand evidence and then pull an evidence-free turd right out of your ____.

 

[Mumbles]

That is really disingenuous, since the answer is in the next sentence.

Evidence that police are "ignoring actual violent crime"?
The problem is that when police respond to "actual violent crime", anti-police activists like you still blame the police and insist that the perp "didn't do nothing".

I like how you first demand evidence and then pull an evidence-free turd right out of your ____.

Not that I'd bother providing it, a basic understanding of US history should be enough to figure out that police in the 1950s-1960s were more interested in boxing black people in, than in actually aiding with violence within those areas...

Hell, I could tell you stories growing up in the 80s...

 

[lpetrich]

House Passes Police Reform Legislation But Issue Mired In Partisan Standoff : NPR

The legislation's prospects, however, are short-circuited by a lack of bipartisan consensus on an ultimate plan. Democrats developed their bill without GOP input, leaving Republicans to push their own counter proposal in the Senate. Without any efforts to work on a bipartisan compromise the issue is likely stalled, potentially until after the fall election.

Nevertheless, Democrats said the moment marked a victory in the ongoing, national conversation raising alarms of misconduct, brutality and systemic racism in policing. The House approved the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act by a vote of 236 to 181 one month to the day the bill's namesake was killed. Three Republicans supported the legislation.

...
Senate Republicans separately fast-tracked their own plan for police reform, but Democrats blocked the effort from reaching the floor for debate on Wednesday. Due to Senate rules the GOP needed 60 votes to advance the bill, but in the closely divided chamber they fell short of the support required from Democrats or Independents. Democratic leaders there insisted the Republican bill, drafted by the lone GOP Black Senator Tim Scott, was not salvageable, so they resisted calls to engage in a process to debate and amend it.

On Thursday, House Republicans cried foul, slamming Democrats for thwarting the Senate bill and also opposing GOP amendments in the House.