Defunding the Police?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And then there's shit like this: cops slashing tires.

Apparently they were ordered to do that.

And as your own source shows, they evidently didn't follow those orders:

The gray car in the video above was the rental car of Luke Mogelson, a New Yorker writer who typically covers war zones and is now stationed in Minneapolis to write about the protests. As the protest on Sunday evening turned hairy, with law enforcement tear-gassing peaceful groups soon after curfew, Mogelson went to check on his car, showing his press pass to officers along the way. (Media were exempt from the curfew.) One officer took a picture of his press pass and said he would “radio it up the chain so everyone knew that car belonged to the press,” said Mogelson. When he came back later that evening to retrieve his car, officers informed him that the tires were punctured. “They were laughing,” Mogelson recalled. “They had grins on their faces.”

Mogelson was among many journalists who came back to flat tires after the protests.
...
The towing company had received “call after call after call.” Asked whose cars were being towed, the tow truck driver said, “Everybody. Medics over there. News crews. Random people that were just here to protest and—tires slashed.”

 

[Trausti]

If there really was a concern about the high homicide rate of black people, it would be directed to what happens in Chicago or Baltimore. Instead, BLM is narrowly focused on the 0.000001 percent of deaths from police interaction.

I guess you missed the question:

I suppose some red, yellow and brown lives matter as well. Maybe even some white lives matter.
Which makes it worth emphasizing that not all black lives matter because... bigotry?

Right, the bigotry of BLM as to those deaths that can't be politicized.

 

[Trausti]

And as your own source shows, they evidently didn't follow those orders:

The gray car in the video above was the rental car of Luke Mogelson, a New Yorker writer who typically covers war zones and is now stationed in Minneapolis to write about the protests. As the protest on Sunday evening turned hairy, with law enforcement tear-gassing peaceful groups soon after curfew, Mogelson went to check on his car, showing his press pass to officers along the way. (Media were exempt from the curfew.) One officer took a picture of his press pass and said he would “radio it up the chain so everyone knew that car belonged to the press,” said Mogelson. When he came back later that evening to retrieve his car, officers informed him that the tires were punctured. “They were laughing,” Mogelson recalled. “They had grins on their faces.”

Mogelson was among many journalists who came back to flat tires after the protests.
...
The towing company had received “call after call after call.” Asked whose cars were being towed, the tow truck driver said, “Everybody. Medics over there. News crews. Random people that were just here to protest and—tires slashed.”

Not really defending it, just noting that it the order came from on high.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Oh, noes. Consequences.

When police officers murder someone there certainly should be.

And burning down the neighborhood seems a wise choice.

"Wise choice"?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And as your own source shows, they evidently didn't follow those orders:

The gray car in the video above was the rental car of Luke Mogelson, a New Yorker writer who typically covers war zones and is now stationed in Minneapolis to write about the protests. As the protest on Sunday evening turned hairy, with law enforcement tear-gassing peaceful groups soon after curfew, Mogelson went to check on his car, showing his press pass to officers along the way. (Media were exempt from the curfew.) One officer took a picture of his press pass and said he would “radio it up the chain so everyone knew that car belonged to the press,” said Mogelson. When he came back later that evening to retrieve his car, officers informed him that the tires were punctured. “They were laughing,” Mogelson recalled. “They had grins on their faces.”

Mogelson was among many journalists who came back to flat tires after the protests.
...
The towing company had received “call after call after call.” Asked whose cars were being towed, the tow truck driver said, “Everybody. Medics over there. News crews. Random people that were just here to protest and—tires slashed.”

Not really defending it, just noting that it the order came from on high.

And was ignored down low. So what does that tell you about the police who defied those orders?

 

[Politesse]

How satisfied are you with your local police department (Very or somewhat satisfied/ Somewhat or very dissatisfied):

College educated whites: 73% / 9%
Non-college whites: 70% / 14%
Black: 72% / 17%
Hispanic/Asian: 68% / 18%

Monmouth poll

The media is garbage.

Interesting thing to mine from that report. Did you even read the rest of it? Those are some damning freaking statistics.

And why is there such a disconnect between what people experience locally but think nationally?

So you admit the data on the whole does not suggest the reality your single mined statistic seemed to be implying?

I think it incredibly likely that people might see their local reality in a more optimistic way than the national situation, we are inclined to be defensive about our local community and blame any perceived issues on the nearest metro. But a national reputation doesn't come out of nowhere, and the fact that a very large portion of respondents had themselves personally experienced discrimination by police officers is disturbing, whether or not that changed their general rating of their local force.

 

[lpetrich]

What Would Efforts to Defund or Disband Police Departments Really Mean? - The New York Times - "Much is not yet certain, but here’s what is known so far about some efforts to defund or abolish police departments."

What are some of the ideas for rethinking policing?

Some proposals call for ending no-knock warrants and military-style raids. Others seek to restrict the flow of military-style gear to police departments and change police tactics used against protesters. One group described an idea for policing in which attendees look out for one another but emergency workers are standing by in the background, handing out water and ready to step in if needed.

Has this been done anywhere?

Some cities have already made changes to policing. In the city of Austin, Texas, 911 calls are answered by operators who inquire whether the caller needs police, fire or mental health services — part of a major revamping of public safety that took place last year when the city budget added millions of dollars for mental health issues. In Eugene, Ore., a team called CAHOOTS — Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets — deploys a medic and a crisis worker with mental health training to emergency calls. Camden, N.J., revamped its policing in 2017 with officers handing out more warnings than tickets and undergoing training that places emphasis on officers holding their fire.

Defund the police? Here’s what that really means. - The Washington Post

To fix policing, we must first recognize how much we have come to over-rely on law enforcement. We turn to the police in situations where years of experience and common sense tell us that their involvement is unnecessary, and can make things worse. We ask police to take accident reports, respond to people who have overdosed and arrest, rather than cite, people who might have intentionally or not passed a counterfeit $20 bill. We call police to roust homeless people from corners and doorsteps, resolve verbal squabbles between family members and strangers alike, and arrest children for behavior that once would have been handled as a school disciplinary issue.

Police themselves often complain about having to “do too much,” including handling social problems for which they are ill-equipped. Some have been vocal about the need to decriminalize social problems and take police out of the equation. It is clear that we must reimagine the role they play in public safety.

That's all very welcome, even if talk about defunding or disbanding cops seems very careless to me. But I do agree that a lot of police departments need a *lot* of revision.

 

[lpetrich]

Democrats unveil ambitious plan for police reform: 'This is a first step' | US news | The Guardian - "The legislation would ban chokeholds by police, set up a national database for tracking police misconduct and would bar types of ‘no-knock’ warrants"

Democrats in Congress have unveiled a sweeping new set of proposals aimed at reforming policing and transforming law enforcement across the country.

The new legislation, called the Justice in Policing Act of 2020, comes during ongoing mass protests across the country in response to the death of George Floyd while under police custody, and is the most ambitious change to law enforcement sought by Congress in years.

“We cannot settle for anything less than transformative structural change,” said the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, the most powerful Democrat in Congress, drawing on the nation’s history of slavery.

Before unveiling the package, House and Senate Democrats including Chuck Schumer, Congressman Jim Clyburn, Congresswoman Lisa Blunt Rochester, Senator Kamala Harris and Senator Cory Booker, held a moment of silence at the Capitol’s Emancipation Hall, reading the names of Floyd and others killed during police interactions.

 

[DBT]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

 

[lpetrich]

Bree Newsome Bass on Twitter: "The political establishment will attempt to take a small amount of $ from these enormous police budgets, transfer it to a handful of chosen programs they view as least threatening to the status quo, & then claim they addressed structural racism. Please don’t let them do that." / Twitter

ACLU on Twitter: "3 million students attend schools with cops, but no nurses." / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Grassroots: “We need major investments in healthcare, housing, and public education.”
Conservatives: “That’s a nice idea, but fiscally irresponsible. You need to state how you‘re going pay for things!”
G: “Let’s use money from overfunded police depts.”
C: “...not like that”" / Twitter

NowThis on Twitter: "'We would not be giving local police departments who are undertrained a tank if we didn't give the military too much money to have extra damn tanks lying around to begin with' — @AOC is calling out the broken police-military-industrial complex https://t.co/XLk6BeRF4Q" / Twitter - from a recent online event that AOC hosted.

On the other side,

White House says Trump 'appalled' by movement to defund police - NY Post

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said Monday that President Trump is “appalled” by a movement to defund police, slamming New York Mayor Bill de Blasio and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for their support for the proposal.

“The president is appalled by the defund the police movement,” McEnany said at a White House press briefing.

Trump tweeted Monday that he supports “LAW & ORDER” and opposes defunding police, as momentum builds among Democrats to defund or abolish police departments.

“The fact that you have sitting congresswomen wanting to defund the police, notably Rashida Tlaib [D-Mich.], notably Biden adviser AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez [D-NY], a former Clinton and Eric Holder spokesperson Brian Fallon, wanting to defund our police across this country, it is extraordinary,” McEnany said.

“The mayor of LA wants to defund police, take money away from police. Mayor de Blasio, the mayor of New York, wants to take money away from police. That means cutting off police, that means reducing police departments, that means defunding police departments, if not getting rid of them entirely. No, he does not agree with that, and the rest of America does not agree with that,” she added.

 

[Trausti]

All these ideas were fashionable 50 and 60 years ago. That's how Manhattan went from the set of "Breakfast at Tiffany's" in 1961 to the set of "Taxi Driver" in 1976.

 

[lpetrich]

Former WI Gov and certified right-winger:
Scott Walker on Twitter: "Reform the police or defund the police? I pick reform. What do you pick?" / Twitter
then
Steadman™ on Twitter: "It is a success of the movement that police reform is the scott walker position" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Stay in the streets. It’s working " / Twitter
Morgan Mckay on Twitter: "BREAKING: NYS Assembly just passed the Eric Garner Anti-Chokehold Act by a vote of 140-3" / Twitter


Kamala Harris Schools ‘The View’ Host Meghan McCain on ‘Defund the Police’
MMC thought that she had some "gotcha" moment.

“Many activists right now are calling for a defunding of the police,” McCain said when it was her turn to question the senator, citing the Minneapolis City Council vote that would go even further in dismantling that city’s police department. “I want to know from you, do you support defunding and removing the police from American communities, and if not, why do you think there is such a hard time being differentiated right now between defunding and reforming police departments?”

But Kamala Harris came back.

“So Meghan, I think that a big part of this conversation really is about reimagining how we do public safety in America,” Harris began. “We have confused the idea that to achieve safety, you put more cops on the street instead of understanding to achieve safe and healthy communities, you put more resources into the public education system of those communities, into affordable housing, into home ownership, into access to capital for small businesses, access to health care regardless of how much money people have. That's how you achieve safe and healthy communities.”

The senator went on to explain that “in many cities in America, over one-third of their city budget goes to police.” She asked, “What about the money going to social services? What about the money going to helping people with job training? What about helping with mental health issues that communities are being plagued with, for which we’re putting no resources?”

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yes, and noted how different the perception is of one’s local police and viewed nationally.

Amazing. I took you off ignore earlier, just on a whim, just in case since the last time I read your posts you’d acquired anything remotely resembling a reasonable, sensible perspective, and you lasted literally all of 10 minutes and 3 posts, two in this thread and another I’ve just replied to in another thread.

Bye.

Trausti's problem is simply that he's a racist. That's not really a problem for Trausti, however, or anyone so afflicted, rather, and as you are aware, it's a problem for persons like us who are trying to create a more civil and egalitarian society. That people of color have been marginalized and discriminated against is actually a good thing in some people's way of not thinking, including Trausti. That much is obvious.

But for Trausti the hate is just too satisfying to let go. If everyone was a white evangelical republican he'd find something else to demonize because it's something about himself that he projects onto blacks. Lots of folks like that.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

That's not a bad idea.

 

[Trausti]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

There’s already respondeat superior.

 

[DBT]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

There’s already respondeat superior.

How does that work? Does it relate to individual officer behaviour? Does it penalise an officer for bad behavior?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

Who would pay for the insurance? Cops don't make all that much. And the vast majority are good cops who don't break the law or violate their oath.

 

[ZiprHead]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

Who would pay for the insurance? Cops don't make all that much. And the vast majority are good cops who don't break the law or violate their oath.

Then their insurance should be cheap.

 

[Trausti]

Heard a suggestion that compulsory personal insurance may be a way to modify police behaviour. Ever higher premiums imposed based on the number, degree or severity of substantiated (not frivolous) complaints the officer accrues. Just like surgeons and other health professionals.

There’s already respondeat superior.

How does that work? Does it relate to individual officer behaviour? Does it penalise an officer for bad behavior?

The employer is responsible for the torts of its agents. True for ABC company. True for the police department.

 

[ZiprHead]

FBI Has Quietly Investigated White Supremacist Infiltration Of Law Enforcement

A couple years old but still quire pertinent.

HITE SUPREMACISTS AND other domestic extremists maintain an active presence in U.S. police departments and other law enforcement agencies. A striking reference to that conclusion, notable for its confidence and the policy prescriptions that accompany it, appears in a classified FBI Counterterrorism Policy Guide from April 2015, obtained by The Intercept. The guide, which details the process by which the FBI enters individuals on a terrorism watchlist, the Known or Suspected Terrorist File, notes that “domestic terrorism investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers,” and explains in some detail how bureau policies have been crafted to take this infiltration into account.

Although these right-wing extremists have posed a growing threat for years, federal investigators have been reluctant to publicly address that threat or to point out the movement’s longstanding strategy of infiltrating the law enforcement community.

No centralized recruitment process or set of national standards exists for the 18,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States, many of which have deep historical connections to racist ideologies. As a result, state and local police as well as sheriff’s departments present ample opportunities for white supremacists and other right-wing extremists looking to expand their power base.

In a heavily redacted version of an October 2006 FBI internal intelligence assessment, the agency raised the alarm over white supremacist groups’ “historical” interest in “infiltrating law enforcement communities or recruiting law enforcement personnel.” The effort, the memo noted, “can lead to investigative breaches and can jeopardize the safety of law enforcement sources or personnel.” The memo also states that law enforcement had recently become aware of the term “ghost skins,” used among white supremacists to describe “those who avoid overt displays of their beliefs to blend into society and covertly advance white supremacist causes.” In at least one case, the FBI learned of a skinhead group encouraging ghost skins to seek employment with law enforcement agencies in order to warn crews of any investigations.

That report appeared after a series of scandals involving local police and sheriff’s departments. In Los Angeles, for example, a U.S. District Court judge found in 1991 that members of a local sheriff’s department had formed a neo-Nazi gang and habitually terrorized black and Latino residents. In Chicago, Jon Burge, a police detective and rumored KKK member, was fired, and eventually prosecuted in 2008, over charges relating to the torture of at least 120 black men during his decadeslong career. Burge notoriously referred to an electric shock device he used during interrogations as the “nigger box.” In Cleveland, officials found that a number of police officers had scrawled “racist or Nazi graffiti” throughout their department’s locker rooms. In Texas, two police officers were fired when it was discovered they were Klansmen. One of them said he had tried to boost the organization’s membership by giving an application to a fellow officer he thought shared his “white, Christian, heterosexual values.”