Dem Post Mortem

[starwater]

If Kamala the prosecutor had shown up, and did not let herself be "handled", she would have faired better. She did not want to offend Biden - big mistake, and this in of itself shows lack of leadership.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Pretending that Kamala Harris was the bestest candidate who ran a great campaign will not help Dems win in the future.

I agree, but who is presenting that strawman?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What "aspersion" are you talking about?

You casually talking about "white bigotry" and at the same time say that voting choices of minorities should not be scrutinized at all.

That is 100% false.

 

[Politesse]

What "aspersion" are you talking about?

You casually talking about "white bigotry" and at the same time say that voting choices of minorities should not be scrutinized at all.

I do oppose bigotry, I'll give you that.

 

[Tigers!]

Scientific illiteracy is irrelevant to how good/bad a campaigner can be. Trump is a/was better campaigner that Harris was.

Depending on your audience.

I shouldn't have to remind you that Trump won therefore by the only criteria that counts (i.e. the result) he ran a better campaign. And he won in enough of the demographics/audience that some are so enamoured with.

 

[Tigers!]

Pretending that Kamala Harris was the bestest candidate who ran a great campaign will not help Dems win in the future.

I agree, but who is presenting that strawman?

See comment (not by me) in post 161

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Pretending that Kamala Harris was the bestest candidate who ran a great campaign will not help Dems win in the future.

I agree, but who is presenting that strawman?

See comment (not by me) in post 161

Do we need to review adjectives?

 

[ZiprHead]

I found this interesting. I've been ranting about it, so I figured I should post some sources. So here ya' go.

Ignore and insult one of the largest voting demographics, and well, this is what you get.

Ignore and insult? Government is built around people like, white men. I still haven't endured this "insulting". I think what is meant is some white people are insulted when they aren't the only people considered when developing policy.

Consider that Gen Z males voted for Trump in much larger numbers than for Harris.

Why do you think that is?

Professional wrestling fans?

 

[ZiprHead]

Interesting thread, wondering why someone as wonderful as Kamala Harris lost. So ponder.

If she is so awesome, why'd she lose the 2020 primary even before voting started?

Could it be she actually lacked appeal within her own party?

Could it possibly be she did not address the concerns that the majority of the people have?

Trump flipped blue states, that should tell us something. Lkee maybe the democrats are out of touch with the people, certainty true of Biden who continues to speak his tired old democrat cliche;'s.

When he spoke to a blck college audience he pleaded for blacks to vote for hm. Some in the audience turned their chairs around showing him their backs.

In response to being asked why she voted for Trump and not Harris a woman said 'Beyonce does not pay my bills; referring to Harris trotting out all those entertainment figures.

How do you know she did not address those concerns? Her platform was bring back American jobs, lift up the middle class with several concrete programs to do that. Address price gouging.

Did you attend her rallies or listen to her speeches? Or did you make your conclusion based on the tiny snippets of her speeches shown on the news?

How can you rationalize a person out of a position they didn't rationalize themselves into? "Bacon is a buck more at the grocery store so I vote to destroy democracy."

Harris ran a very good standard campaign. Trump ran a shit show. People preferred the shit show. They liked the insults and the hate. They liked and believed the lies. They liked the rejection of science and facts.

So please. Do tell us all how you counter that sort of attitude? How do you tell someone they are stupid and believe in bullshit without insulting them? I'm all ears.

Still waiting for an answer. Anyone can participate.

 

[Tigers!]

Pretending that Kamala Harris was the bestest candidate who ran a great campaign will not help Dems win in the future.

I agree, but who is presenting that strawman?

See comment (not by me) in post 161

Do we need to review adjectives?

It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
The only criteria for determining a good campaign is the result - win/lose. If you win it was a good campaign. If you lose it was not a good campaign. Simples.
Trump won so obviously Harris did not run a good campaign.

The Democrats should be very wary of using the last campaign as the template for the next.

(We recently had a robust discussion on commas so one on adjectives might be useful)

 

[ZiprHead]

It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.

I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.

 

[SLD]

It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.

I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.

Simple. You seem to imply that she would’ve had to convince people to change their mind about Trump, and vote for her instead. It’s not how you win elections. There’s always irrational misogynistic racist fucking assholes out there. Fuck them. Quit trying to reach out to them. Donald Trump actually had 2 million less voters in 2024 than 2020. Her problem, and her failure is that she failed to motivate people to vote for her. 15 million people who turned out for Biden failed to show up for her. That IS on her. You have to motivate the base to show up and support your candidate. She failed to do that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This segues into your third bullet, in that most people do not think he's going to turn the country into a fascist theocracy that hunts down brown people. For those of us who can remember back prior to 2015, Trump has never ever been a religious nut. Again - he's a slimy salesman. His only religion has always been money and attention. He's not the lawful evil character that the media has been insisting that he is, he's at best chaotic neutral. And as I said in a prior post... "OMG TRUMP" isn't the highest priority or most important thing to most people. Because Trump isn't that important to most people, and the rhetoric isn't convincing to anyone who isn't already a true-blue-democrat.

He's clearly evil. Things like deliberately messing up the data so a lot of illegals will never find their children.

Most of what he does is simply chaotic stupid--but Mao killed something like 10% of his population that way. And that was a society that was still basically agricultural--do the same thing now and we could have a cascade failure.

Don't Look Up.

 

[Tigers!]

It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.

I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.

It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, at least my husband and I got out. Maybe Europe isn't far enough?

Good luck. Things will get bad.

I doubt Europe is far enough unless you're in one of the nuclear powers.

I looked at the possibility of getting out, nothing looked feasible for us.

I would say either NE or Western seaboard are the best bets, in the US. I don't see the union staying "whole" after this, and those are the logical breakaways at this point.

I would say Minnesota, but MN is an island, and I can foresee attempts to force unrest through occupation there.

He has to keep the blue areas because that's where the money is.

 

[bigfield]

It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.

I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.

It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.

Trump also had help from outside his campaign: the media gave him a lot of cover, either because they wanted him to win (Fox, X), or they wanted a newsworthy contest (CNN and the others).

 

[Tigers!]

So please. Do tell us all how you counter that sort of attitude?

Not by the doing the following

How do you tell someone they are stupid and believe in bullshit without insulting them? I'm all ears.

I suggest a dictionary and a thésaurus. They are human just like you I and deserve to be treated with respect. You wish to be treated a certain way and surprisingly they do too.
Otherwise you will lose more elections.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Biden and Harris were tone deaf on the economy and the border.

Harris had did not cone across as having a clear economic plan. Inflation is down and jobs are credm but peole are having a hard time paying bills.

Harris kept invoking sympathy for illegals while people were fed up having to deal with illegals, even in progressive Seattle.

As pundits are saying people voted based on their pocketbooks, not who they liked.

It's not that she was tone deaf on the economy and the border, it's that she never fought for the policies that have been in place for the last four years.

How bad is the fucking economy? It's not. It's fucking great and has been fucking great. Inflation is up, but so are wages so who gives a shit. That's what she should have said. She never fought. She tried to answer their questions. She should have called them morons for questioning the economy.

And the Border. What's fucking wrong with the border? How exactly is it impacting the average American that people want to come here. You know why people are coming, because Biden and Harris are doing a great job running the country. We need immigrants you fucking morons! The biggest economic problem we have is demographic aging and that is due to a lack of workers - especially in many low wage shit jobs. We need immigrants to come and pay into social security so we can continue the program. But she never said anything like that she should have defended herself instead of tried to make excuses. She should have called Brett Baier and donald trump idiots to their face. She should have done it in the debate. Instead she just gave smirks. It didn't work.

We need immigrants, we always have. It is thee manner in which they come. The idea tjhat anyone can cross thebo0rde4 at any time and live here is insane.

In Seattle we have legals living on the streets. A group complained about having to live in tents in a church parking lot.

They are not planned for and there is no money for them.

We need an immigration system that matches immigrants with needs. It is not a welfare system for the world.

I was born in 1951 in NYC and grew up in Stamford Ct outside NYC. I grew up with and went to school with immigrant kids.

Ellis Island was an icon. Immigrants were screened for disease.

In the economy then immigrants with no skills and little English could actually support a family.

That economy is long gone.


Biden was tone def on immigration and the issues. When Texas and Florida bussed illegals to NYC the city quickly complained they wee not equipped to deal with the numbers.

Biden talks as if we are in the 50s.

In Seattle we have a problem housing the homeless that are from here without an unending flow of legals.

By law emergency rooms are required to treat all comers. ERs are used as a doctor's office and hospitals have no way to pay for it. Schools are not equipped to deal with large numbers of kids with differing languages.to pay for illegals.

It is a fucking mess.

And nowhere in this do you establish any connection between the people on the street and the illegals.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Could it possibly be she did not address the concerns that the majority of the people have?

Trump flipped blue states, that should tell us something. Lkee maybe the democrats are out of touch with the people, certainty true of Biden who continues to speak his tired old democrat cliche;'s.

What it says is people prefer simple sound-bite answers that they don't have to think about.

Just look at your post about the homeless--you blame border policy for that but it has nothing to do with it! That's why The Felon won.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How do you propose Israel defend itself against an enemy that hides in civilian areas without there being significant civilian casualties?

You send ground troops in to route out HAMAS instead of bombing and destroying an entire city block full of people to get a few HAMAS members.

So you send your soldiers into urban combat, one of the most difficult and bloody types of combat where civilian casualties are going to be high anyway? A place where it's difficult if not at times impossible to distinguish civilians from enemy soldiers? This is particularly true in this war. Hamas is quite happy to take up positions in buildings occupied by civilians and fire on Israelis.

You don't unnecessarily sacrifice your soldiers and there is no such thing as clean warfare.

Quit making things complex! To understand what you are saying you must accept that there is no good answer. But there's always a good answer. If you don't see it that means you failed to look hard enough. Faith beats reason every time.