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Dem Post Mortem

Regardless of who the working class chooses to vote for, don't you think you're painting working class people with a pretty broad brush? Sure, some just want to clock in and clock out every day and drink away their paycheck. However, many are highly motivated, small business owners looking to maintain and grow a business in the trades (painters, plumber, electrician, etc). I know and work with quite a few individuals like this.
and which specific Trump policies do these highly motivated small business owners believe will be best for them growing their businesses?
That's not really the point of my post, which is why I said "regardless of who the working class chooses to vote for". I was merely defending working class people from Ziprhead's false and slanderous stereotypes. Do you agree with what he said about working class people? You have not chimed in on that aspect of my response.

But to answer your question, No...I don't know "which specific Trump policies small business owners believe will be best for them growing their businesses". I'm sure the answer will be different depending on their individual business circumstances. Its kind of a silly question, don't you think? But one of the the more well known, universally applicable benefit that applies to many small business owners is the pass-through business deduction. It has benefited me, and no doubt the other small business owners that I know and work with:

Pass-Through Business Deduction (Sec. 199A Deduction)

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) created a deduction for households with income from sole proprietorships, partnerships, and S corporations, which allows taxpayers to exclude up to 20 percent of their pass-through business income from federal income tax. For upper-income taxpayers, the deduction is subject to several limits.
 
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Act dumb and talk simple.
Your comment makes it pretty easy to see why the working class are turning away from the Democrat party.
Yes, the working class wants dumb and simple. That is quite clear. They want to be directed and told what to do, just like at their jobs. Little thought needed. Then after work kick back at the bar and toss back a few PBRs and complain about how the big bad guvmint is out to get them because the high taxes on their employers keeps them from getting bigger wages.

Sorry. I don't kowtow to the ignorant.
Regardless of who the working class chooses to vote for, don't you think you're painting working class people with a pretty broad brush? Sure, some just want to clock in and clock out every day and drink away their paycheck. However, many are highly motivated, small business owners looking to maintain and grow a business in the trades (painters, plumber, electrician, etc). I know and work with quite a few individuals like this.
If they voted for Trump they're morons.

Who is worse? Me for using crude language for ignorant people who voted for Trump? Or Trump et al using simple language to get the ignorati vote then fleecing them like sheep?
"Well done! So when Melkur has taken control of the Source, you'll have the consolation of knowing your personal honour is intact." - The Keeper of Traken
I'm glad you think I have so much influence over others. Your thoughts will keep me warm at night.
 
But one of the the more well known, universally applicable benefit that applies to many small business owners is the pass-through business deduction. It has benefited me, and no doubt the other small business owners that I know and work with:

Pass-Through Business Deduction (Sec. 199A Deduction)

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) created a deduction for households with income from sole proprietorships, partnerships, and S corporations, which allows taxpayers to exclude up to 20 percent of their pass-through business income from federal income tax. For upper-income taxpayers, the deduction is subject to several limits.
Yes, a tax deduction for nothing other than having a business. I can see why righties would love it.
 
But one of the the more well known, universally applicable benefit that applies to many small business owners is the pass-through business deduction. It has benefited me, and no doubt the other small business owners that I know and work with:

Pass-Through Business Deduction (Sec. 199A Deduction)

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) created a deduction for households with income from sole proprietorships, partnerships, and S corporations, which allows taxpayers to exclude up to 20 percent of their pass-through business income from federal income tax. For upper-income taxpayers, the deduction is subject to several limits.
Yes, a tax deduction for nothing other than having a business. I can see why righties would love it.
So, you did not approve of Kamala's proposed tax deductions for small businesses, either?

Harris Courts Small Businesses With New Tax Proposals

Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris unveiled a plan to expand tax deductions for small businesses and streamline their tax filing process.

Speaking in New Hampshire September 4, Harris argued that increasing the amount small businesses can deduct for start-up costs from $5,000 to $50,000 would help fuel a boom in economic activity.

“It’s essentially a tax cut for starting a small business,” Harris said, adding that the proposal is part of a wider goal to have 25 million new small business applications in her first term.
 
Yes, a tax deduction for nothing other than having a business. I can see why righties would love it.
The deduction was to put pass-through entities on a par with C corporations tax wise. That is, to tax business income at the same rate regardless of the legal corporate structure.

It goes away next year unless Congress acts to extend it.
 
Regardless of who the working class chooses to vote for, don't you think you're painting working class people with a pretty broad brush? Sure, some just want to clock in and clock out every day and drink away their paycheck. However, many are highly motivated, small business owners looking to maintain and grow a business in the trades (painters, plumber, electrician, etc). I know and work with quite a few individuals like this.
and which specific Trump policies do these highly motivated small business owners believe will be best for them growing their businesses?
That's not really the point of my post, which is why I said "regardless of who the working class chooses to vote for". I was merely defending working class people from Ziprhead's false and slanderous stereotypes. Do you agree with what he said about working class people? You have not chimed in on that aspect of my response.

I believe it usually leads to simplistic answers that have limited value to broad brush a group of people with some similarities into a monolithic ideology. Even if general trends may be gleaned from a statistical view, things are most often far more nuanced when examined at an individual level.

But to answer your question, No...I don't know "which specific Trump policies small business owners believe will be best for them growing their businesses". I'm sure the answer will be different depending on their individual business circumstances. Its kind of a silly question, don't you think?

No. I don't think it's a silly question. That's why I asked it.

But one of the the more well known, universally applicable benefit that applies to many small business owners is the pass-through business deduction. It has benefited me, and no doubt the other small business owners that I know and work with:

Pass-Through Business Deduction (Sec. 199A Deduction)

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) created a deduction for households with income from sole proprietorships, partnerships, and S corporations, which allows taxpayers to exclude up to 20 percent of their pass-through business income from federal income tax. For upper-income taxpayers, the deduction is subject to several limits.
Having said what I said in my first paragraph, I was curious about what these small business owners might have been thinking individually so that we could distinguish them from a broad generalization of Trump voters. That is, given all the obvious bad that comes from a Trump presidency, especially with regard to the average American, what about his policies could "trump" all those bad things in their minds. How do I distinguish the average Trump voter from the stereotypical cult member, because I honestly find it hard to understand how an otherwise rational person would vote for this guy.

I do understand that some people are single issue voters, and if this "pass-through business deduction" is so critical to their livelihood that they could overlook all the rest of Trump's chaos and incompetence then I guess that's fair. I'd have to look into the economics of this to really see if they're getting along better with Trump and this deduction given the potential impact on the overall economy of his policies than with the Democrats and not having this deduction (though you point out that Harris was offering small business benefits also).
 
In what way to do you think I don't practice what I preach? What is it that you think I preach in the first place, that I'm not practicing?
Common decency to others.
What, the way you and Jarhyn and Elixir and a handful of others exhibit common decency to me?
Ah, so you believe good manners are only owed to polite people?
Apparently you believe that you don't owe good manners even to polite people, but should be free to be as rude and uncivil as you feel like and still expect politeness and courtesy in return.

I don't believe I should be expected to be a doormat for you.
 
Ah, so you believe good manners are only owed to polite people?
Non sequitur. Perhaps she believes good manners are owed both to polite people and also to people who practice bad manners only reciprocally.
Perhaps she said "crap" where I would have said "shit", and perhaps that makes me a rube, but if you ask me, dismissing someone else's contributions to a conversation without acknowledgement is impolite on a much more fundamental level than is saying a grown-up word to fellow grown-ups.
Dude, do you even read your own posts? Do you seriously think I consider you uncivil because you used grown up fucking words? If you can't afford a mirror, I can lend you the money for it - at very reasonable interest rates no less.
 

Act dumb and talk simple.
Your comment makes it pretty easy to see why the working class are turning away from the Democrat party.
Yes, the working class wants dumb and simple. That is quite clear. They want to be directed and told what to do, just like at their jobs. Little thought needed. Then after work kick back at the bar and toss back a few PBRs and complain about how the big bad guvmint is out to get them because the high taxes on their employers keeps them from getting bigger wages.

Sorry. I don't kowtow to the ignorant.
And liberals keep wondering why so many people perceive them to be elitist assholes...
 
Are you... keeping a collection of my stinging witticisms? That's kind of creepy, my dude, get a different hobby.
Your "stinging witticisms" are the taunts of a child with no social skills whatsoever, who believes that they're superior to others and that their superiority entitles them to treat those they see as inferior with unmitigated disdain. You are a condescending and contemptuous verbal bully.
 
I know a lot of so called working class people and everyone of them voted for Harris. The only Trump supporters I know personally are retired or very wealthy. All but two are conservative Christians. My very nice, caring neighbor across the street, who is retired from the woking class did vote for Trump, after telling us he couldn't stand Trump but didn't like Biden or Harris either. Can we stop making generalizations about why people vote for certain candidates?

Imo, a lot of it has to do with Trump supporters, like my former long term care patients and one of the women I exercise with, who sit in front of Fox or Newsmax and have been indoctrinated by a cult leader and propaganda. They aren't stupid, imo, although they often lack information and are just easily manipulated. The wealthy who support Trump want those big tax breaks. My bro in law is the best example although he did admit that FDRjr. was a total nut job who should not get the position that Trump wants him to have. It's just sad, but if you follow the news, you realize that Canada and many European countries are turning toward the right. And Muskie is trying to influence the world with his crazy, racist, mania. I think he's probably more dangerous than Trump. Just read more actual news and you'll see what's going on. Some people admitted they wouldn't support a female president. I'm are there are lots of reasons why people voted for Trump. It's sad.

Can we disagree without attacking each other? That would be a nice change. An awful lot of this thread is simply insulting each other. What's up with that! :glare:
 
. I'm are there are lots of reasons why people voted for Trump. It's sad.
That is so true. Many of those reasons are sad or frightening. But if the Democrats want to regain support, they need to figure out how to reach out and deal with those people. It is bloody obvious that the USA is centrist right at this point, and the Democrats need to start dealing with that reality.
 
Are you... keeping a collection of my stinging witticisms? That's kind of creepy, my dude, get a different hobby.
Your "stinging witticisms" are the taunts of a child with no social skills whatsoever, who believes that they're superior to others and that their superiority entitles them to treat those they see as inferior with unmitigated disdain. You are a condescending and contemptuous verbal bully.
Superior at what? Wilderness orienteering? Making vegetarian French onion soup? Alphabetizing and collating papers? I mean, probably, but who cares?
 
Quoting people out of context is also rude.
Only when the context makes a difference. See below...

Examples A and B, I know, were both in repsonse to "it's justified when we do it because x group does it",
No, you don't know that -- you are inventing a post facto narrative derived from what you conceive it would take to justify your earlier behavior, rather than from any actual memory of what was being said at the time. They weren't in response to that, and by claiming they were you are adding new libelous accusations to your earlier ones.

a rhetorical ploy I have never found convincing for the exact reason I was pointing out. We are neither terrorists nor chimpanzees, so their conduct cannot be used as a standard for evaluating our own behavior. If Emily or anyone else is upset that I have taken their "we" statements and turned them into "I/you" statements, that's a sign of illogic in and of itself. You are human and so am I. If you say that you believe "humans are inherently violent, like chimpanzees" then you are either saying "I am inherently violent, like a chimpanzee" or "I am not a human". You are also saying to the person you're talking to "I think you are inherently violent, like chimpanzees". Or, more likely, you simply haven't thought about the implications of your argument at all.
In the first place, Emily had said nothing of the sort. You are libeling her, and it isn't even the same libel you were libeling her with at the time. You just make things up about her.

And in the second place, it seems you've forgotten the topic we're now discussing. This is not a "Politesse is bad for saying those mean things he said" trial, so you now attempting to justify yourself completely misses the point. What you are now on trial for is falsely accusing Emily of not practicing what she preaches, remember? So even if the context I quoted you out of were exactly what you claim it was, that would not be a defense! In order to justify your accusation, you would need to show the context I quoted you out of was that the personal insults I quoted were reciprocal rudeness. You would need to show you were retaliating against previous personal insults by the targets of your invective. That is why the context I quoted you out of makes no difference -- there is no dispute over the pertinent fact, which is that you do not practice bad manners only reciprocally. You've stipulated it! If you really said those things for the reason you say you did, that satisfies Emily's preached criterion of "have a repeated pattern of being complete assholes in their interaction with those who don't kowtow to their belief structures." So whether that behavior on your part is justifiable by the egregiousness with which your targets believed things they oughtn't believe is neither here nor there -- it has no bearing on whether Emily is practicing what she preaches. This is not rocket science.

I note that in the terrorist example, though of course you offered no context, if I am remembering correctly Emily was <snip>
You obviously aren't remembering correctly. You are yet again just making things up about her.
 
That is so true. Many of those reasons are sad or frightening. But if the Democrats want to regain support, they need to figure out how to reach out and deal with those people. It is bloody obvious that the USA is centrist right at this point, and the Democrats need to start dealing with that reality.
This whole campaign was based on trying to drag the party right. It didn't work. They didn't win over a single centrist voter. In fact, in nearly every district, there were more people who voted Democrat previously switching over to the Republicans in this election, than there was the other way around. What, exactly, do you think Harris should have done that she didn't already do, to bend over backward for Trump fans?
 
And in the second place, it seems you've forgotten the topic we're now discussing.
An ironic comment, considering that the topic of the thread is analyzing the American election, and you're wasting time writing paragraphs of unsubstantiated insults and meaningless research into my posting history. You need to get over me, man, I'm just not that important.
 
But one of the the more well known, universally applicable benefit that applies to many small business owners is the pass-through business deduction. It has benefited me, and no doubt the other small business owners that I know and work with:

Pass-Through Business Deduction (Sec. 199A Deduction)

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) created a deduction for households with income from sole proprietorships, partnerships, and S corporations, which allows taxpayers to exclude up to 20 percent of their pass-through business income from federal income tax. For upper-income taxpayers, the deduction is subject to several limits.
Yes, a tax deduction for nothing other than having a business. I can see why righties would love it.
So, you did not approve of Kamala's proposed tax deductions for small businesses, either?

Harris Courts Small Businesses With New Tax Proposals

Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris unveiled a plan to expand tax deductions for small businesses and streamline their tax filing process.

Speaking in New Hampshire September 4, Harris argued that increasing the amount small businesses can deduct for start-up costs from $5,000 to $50,000 would help fuel a boom in economic activity.

“It’s essentially a tax cut for starting a small business,” Harris said, adding that the proposal is part of a wider goal to have 25 million new small business applications in her first term.
Startups. Not established businesses that don't need it.
 

Act dumb and talk simple.
Apparently you think working class people are all stupid, and as such merit to be ignored and treated with contempt?
No, only working class people that voted for Trump.
 
If they voted for Trump they're morons.

Who is worse? Me for using crude language for ignorant people who voted for Trump? Or Trump et al using simple language to get the ignorati vote then fleecing them like sheep?
"Well done! So when Melkur has taken control of the Source, you'll have the consolation of knowing your personal honour is intact." - The Keeper of Traken
I'm glad you think I have so much influence over others. Your thoughts will keep me warm at night.
But there are millions of people who think just like you, and you collectively have quite a bit of influence over others. If the millions of you all collectively convince others you're collectively the last people on earth they'd want ruling over them, they will vote against the person you collectively tell them they should vote for. You are all helping people like Trump get elected collectively, but if we want to prevent that sort of thing from happening again we need to persuade you all to stop helping make it happen, one at a time.

(But, then again, this is the Dem Post Mortem thread, and if there's anything the Dems are masters at it's avoiding learning anything from defeats.)
 
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