Democrats 2020

[thebeave]

Well, if you remember, Biden did go out of his way to praise Obama as the first "clean" African American, so perhaps he has it in his mind that black people are dirty and smelly?!

He meant as far as presidential candidates. I definitely can believe that racist black supremacist Irrev. Al Sharpton is dirty and smelly.

Yes, I know he meant presidential candidate, but his words said otherwise. I was having fun with yet another one of his many gaffes.

 

[lpetrich]

When I saw this, I found it VERY hard to believe: Biden Concerned About Republicans Getting “Clobbered” by Dems in 2020 (Not Clickbait) - YouTube

I tracked it down, and found this article about an interview with him by some reporters on his campaign bus: Joe Biden Gave An Aggressive Defense Of How He Handles Criticism Of His Son

... But he said he believed there will be "serious consequences" for the Republican Party as Americans reckon with Trump.

"It’s not like there’s going to be some great epiphany and people are going to wake up and go, 'Oh my god, I'm now a Democrat.' And if you hear people on the rope line saying, ‘I'm a Republican,’ I say, ‘Stay a Republican.’ Vote for me but stay a Republican, because we need a Republican Party."

He later added that he's concerned about what would happen if the Republican Party were totally "clobbered."

"I'm really worried that no party should have too much power," he said. "You need a countervailing force."

What does he want? For the Democratic Party to take a dive and let the Republican Party to have a lot of seats?

Does Biden’s View of the GOP Make Any Sense?

The only possible defense of that statement is that it’s pleasant-sounding crap that helps him get elected. As analysis, it’s pure insanity. You may believe that over the long run, we need a sane GOP, but it’s obvious the party has been moving right for decades and only massive sustained defeats can arrest this trend. Frankly, I am angry you even asked this question. I’m now questioning your fitness as a moderator.

Yes, the party needs the good hard knock on the head of crushing defeats.

I think Biden could say that the Republican Party has lost its way and needs to be taught a lesson. You can quote Eisenhower, Nelson Rockefeller, and maybe even George H.W. Bush approvingly. Whip out a pro-immigrant Reagan quote if you must. But don’t endorse the contemporary Republican Party as vital check on tyranny in the U.S.

Biden: 'No party should have too much power' | TheHill He says:

“There’s an awful lot of really good Republicans out there,” he said in August at a Massachusetts fundraiser. “I get in trouble for saying that with Democrats, but the truth of the matter is, every time we ever got in trouble with our administration, remember who got sent up to Capitol Hill to fix it? Me. Because they know I respect the other team.”

 

[lpetrich]

Joe Biden: America Needs the Republican Party

The comment is descriptive of a larger conflict within Biden’s messaging. Throughout the primary, the former vice-president has invoked politics-before-Trump as a highly functioning, civil process — though the civility was shared with segregationists and the road to progress he travelled with President Obama was laden with obstacles planted by the opposition party. Biden seems to suggest that if the Republican Party returns to its tenor prior to Trump, that will be the booster shot needed in American politics, overlooking that the good old Grand Old Party shut down the gears of the senate, sheltered birtherism, and blocked the nomination of Merrick Garland.

Does Biden really think that feeling sorry for the Republicans will get him much support? The Obama administration tried compromising in advance to please them, and the Republicans didn't think it good enough.

Biden Says Sharing Power With Republicans is a Good Thing - Rolling Stone

This warm-and-fuzzy attitude toward divided government is surprising coming from the former President Barack Obama’s VP. During Obama’s first two years, Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and, briefly, had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. Despite that, they relentlessly chased Republican moderates, begging to get just one to sign onto a health care plan that included no public option and was modeled after a system implemented by [checks notes] Mitt Romney. All those concessions to the middle gave them exactly zero GOP support.

Instead, they got Republican GOP leadership that decided on Day 1 to block everything Obama did and a tea party movement that claimed Obama was born in Kenya. Democrats lost the House in 2010, and for the final three-quarters of Obama’s presidency, he got damn near nothing of any importance through Congress. And when it was Obama’s turn to pick a Supreme Court justice, Mitch McConnell stole it because he could.

Joe Biden Says He Doesn’t Want Republicans To Get “Clobbered” In 2020 - The Ring of Fire Network

 

[angelo]

Joe Biden: America Needs the Republican Party

The comment is descriptive of a larger conflict within Biden’s messaging. Throughout the primary, the former vice-president has invoked politics-before-Trump as a highly functioning, civil process — though the civility was shared with segregationists and the road to progress he travelled with President Obama was laden with obstacles planted by the opposition party. Biden seems to suggest that if the Republican Party returns to its tenor prior to Trump, that will be the booster shot needed in American politics, overlooking that the good old Grand Old Party shut down the gears of the senate, sheltered birtherism, and blocked the nomination of Merrick Garland.

Does Biden really think that feeling sorry for the Republicans will get him much support? The Obama administration tried compromising in advance to please them, and the Republicans didn't think it good enough.

Biden Says Sharing Power With Republicans is a Good Thing - Rolling Stone

This warm-and-fuzzy attitude toward divided government is surprising coming from the former President Barack Obama’s VP. During Obama’s first two years, Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and, briefly, had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. Despite that, they relentlessly chased Republican moderates, begging to get just one to sign onto a health care plan that included no public option and was modeled after a system implemented by [checks notes] Mitt Romney. All those concessions to the middle gave them exactly zero GOP support.

Instead, they got Republican GOP leadership that decided on Day 1 to block everything Obama did and a tea party movement that claimed Obama was born in Kenya. Democrats lost the House in 2010, and for the final three-quarters of Obama’s presidency, he got damn near nothing of any importance through Congress. And when it was Obama’s turn to pick a Supreme Court justice, Mitch McConnell stole it because he could.

Joe Biden Says He Doesn’t Want Republicans To Get “Clobbered” In 2020 - The Ring of Fire Network

If the same results eventuate in USA as they did in England, a vast rejection of left wing politics, Trump's a shoe in come 2020.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I’d like to know what The Humanist Report guy thinks happens to the 40% staunchly committed to what is now the Nationalist Party. They are by far the most organized political force in the US. Are we going to punch them in the face with Bernie the Socialist (I’m assuming that is their mindset, not mine about him.) and think they are not going to punch back? The far left still, after all these years, since the inception of the Tea Party, underestimate these people. 40% of Americans and money that dwarfs what the Dems have.
If given the opportunity, the best we can do is slow walk these people into social programs that benefit them so they can see it’s not as bad as they thought. Bernieworld is where I’d like the country to be eventually but we need a bridge to get there, like Biden or Buttigieg.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Biden isn't necessarily wrong in that having more than one political party is a good thing. However, what we need isn't the ever-more-crazy GOP. If he keeps the party more or less where it is, it would be nice to have an actual left leaning party to counter it.

Now wouldn't that be something?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Biden isn't necessarily wrong in that having more than one political party is a good thing. However, what we need isn't the ever-more-crazy GOP. If he keeps the party more or less where it is, it would be nice to have an actual left leaning party to counter it.

Now wouldn't that be something?

It would. US politics wonks who think of Biden or Hillary as "centrist" have no concept of what left and right actually are.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Bernieworld is where I’d like the country to be eventually but we need a bridge to get there, like Biden or Buttigieg.

You aren't going to move to the left without a strong movement in that direction. You need the bold vision and strong advocate who goes "too hard and too far" so the compromise position is actually movement left rather than right. Had Obama struck out for true Universal single payer, you may have the public option right now as the compromise instead of Romneycare.

 

[lpetrich]

Gideon Resnick on Twitter: "Here’s Sanders and Warren saying they may miss the next debate to avoid crossing a picket line https://t.co/lofLo4njbs" / Twitter
noting:

Elizabeth Warren on Twitter: ".@UniteHere11 is fighting for better wages and benefits—and I stand with them. The DNC should find a solution that lives up to our party's commitment to fight for working people. I will not cross the union's picket line even if it means missing the debate." / Twitter

Bernie Sanders on Twitter: "I stand with the workers of @UniteHere11 on campus at Loyola Marymount University fighting Sodexo for a better contract. I will not be crossing their picket line." / Twitter

Pete Buttigieg on Twitter: "I take the debate stage to stand up for workers’ rights, not to undermine them.
I stand in solidarity with the workers of @UNITEHERE11 at Loyola Marymount University and I will not cross their picket line." / Twitter

Tom Steyer on Twitter: "I support @UNITEHERE11. If their dispute with @sodexoUSA is not resolved before the debate, I will not cross the picket line. I trust the DNC will find a solution ahead of the debate, and I stand with @LoyolaMarymount workers in their fight for fair wages and benefits." / Twitter

Andrew Yang on Twitter: "I won’t cross the @UniteHere11 picket line to attend next week’s debate. We must live our values and there is nothing more core to the Democratic Party than the fight for working people. I support @UniteHere11 in their fight for the compensation and benefits they deserve." / Twitter

Joe Biden on Twitter: "I won't be crossing a picket line. We’ve got to stand together with @UniteHere11 for affordable health care and fair wages. A job is about more than just a paycheck. It's about dignity. https://t.co/nn4tb5q8wt" / Twitter

Amy Klobuchar on Twitter: "As I said at my event with labor leaders here in Miami, I will not cross the picket line and I will stand with @UniteHere11 to fight for the dignity of work." / Twitter

Source for other than BS & EW:
Maddow Blog on Twitter: "One by one, starting with Elizabeth Warren, every candidate who made it into that debate, who's qualified for that debate, announced that they would, under no circumstances, cross a picket line in order to get into that venue. https://t.co/iboWQpKq4A" / Twitter

My ultimate source:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: " https://t.co/YRrXMSJ3UW" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

A video of alleged Michael Bloomberg supporters doing a choreographed dance is satirical, reports say / Twitter

National President: Democratic primary Polls | FiveThirtyEight As I write this, Biden is still ahead, with Sanders and Warren tied in second place. Buttigieg is slowly advancing.

The Democratic Presidential Candidates Are Becoming Less Popular | FiveThirtyEight but they remain more popular than Trump.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Bernieworld is where I’d like the country to be eventually but we need a bridge to get there, like Biden or Buttigieg.

You aren't going to move to the left without a strong movement in that direction. You need the bold vision and strong advocate who goes "too hard and too far" so the compromise position is actually movement left rather than right. Had Obama struck out for true Universal single payer, you may have the public option right now as the compromise instead of Romneycare.

Really? You have your position on various issues, I'm sure. If one came up for discussion and the opposition instead of trying to entice you with a statement close to what appeals to you, they went "too hard and too far", would it cause you to shift your position?

Any dealing and final deal will always be dictated by the makeup of the current Congress not by an opening gambit considered an insult by the opposition. Insulting the opposition with what they would consider a preposterous offer is just going to anger them and cause them to dig their heels in. Sanders and Warren have both been in politics long enough to know this.

 

[angelo]

Bernieworld is where I’d like the country to be eventually but we need a bridge to get there, like Biden or Buttigieg.

You aren't going to move to the left without a strong movement in that direction. You need the bold vision and strong advocate who goes "too hard and too far" so the compromise position is actually movement left rather than right. Had Obama struck out for true Universal single payer, you may have the public option right now as the compromise instead of Romneycare.

Really? You have your position on various issues, I'm sure. If one came up for discussion and the opposition instead of trying to entice you with a statement close to what appeals to you, they went "too hard and too far", would it cause you to shift your position?

Any dealing and final deal will always be dictated by the makeup of the current Congress not by an opening gambit considered an insult by the opposition. Insulting the opposition with what they would consider a preposterous offer is just going to anger them and cause them to dig their heels in. Sanders and Warren have both been in politics long enough to know this.

With the thumping results against socialism in general in the UK, watch the loony US socialists goose step back away from their more extreme left agendas!

 

[bilby]

Really? You have your position on various issues, I'm sure. If one came up for discussion and the opposition instead of trying to entice you with a statement close to what appeals to you, they went "too hard and too far", would it cause you to shift your position?

Any dealing and final deal will always be dictated by the makeup of the current Congress not by an opening gambit considered an insult by the opposition. Insulting the opposition with what they would consider a preposterous offer is just going to anger them and cause them to dig their heels in. Sanders and Warren have both been in politics long enough to know this.

With the thumping results against socialism in general in the UK, watch the loony US socialists goose step back away from their more extreme left agendas!

43.6% of UK voters voted Conservative. If you add on the Ulster Unionists, Brexit Party, and UKIP, you get to 48% voting for non-socialist candidates, vs 52% voting for various flavours of socialism. That's a thumping defeat for socialism in the same way that the 2016 vote was a thumping defeat for 'leave'.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Off topic, but, here in Houston we had a run off election for mayor. Sylvester Turner, incumbent mayor won 57% to 43% over challenger Tony Buzbee. Buzbee was a Republican who was pretty far to the right. Glad to see these results. Turner, who is African American won by a very convincing margin. Houston thus it seems is Blue part of Texas, which may well play a roll in 2020 presidential elections.

 

[Derec]

43.6% of UK voters voted Conservative. If you add on the Ulster Unionists, Brexit Party, and UKIP, you get to 48% voting for non-socialist candidates, vs 52% voting for various flavours of socialism. That's a thumping defeat for socialism in the same way that the 2016 vote was a thumping defeat for 'leave'.

SNP is socialist? LibDems are socialist? Hardly!
Even most Labour voters are not socialist, which got reflected in Jeremy Corbyn's abysmal favorability ratings
.

 

[bilby]

43.6% of UK voters voted Conservative. If you add on the Ulster Unionists, Brexit Party, and UKIP, you get to 48% voting for non-socialist candidates, vs 52% voting for various flavours of socialism. That's a thumping defeat for socialism in the same way that the 2016 vote was a thumping defeat for 'leave'.

SNP is socialist? LibDems are socialist?

Using the common British meaning of the word? Absolutely.

Hardly!
Even most Labour voters are not socialist, which got reflected in Jeremy Corbyn's abysmal favorability ratings
.View attachment 25279

Your argument by American English is the only correct English against my description of the left of British politics as 'socialist' is as boring and predictable as it is stupid. Please, fucking stop it. If you don't understand what I am saying, ask - or don't respond at all. But of course, by now, you have no excuse for your pointless prescripticism other than as a means to derail threads.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Trausti]

It can't fail!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The British election was a little more about Brexit than about Socialism. Even so, the thumping the socialist took is a warning to the US socialists.

 

[lpetrich]

Seems like the UK ought to have had proportional representation, or at least the Alternative Vote.

I remember when the Liberal Democrats allied with the Tories about the AV, because the LibDems wanted it. But the Tories campaigned against it and the Laborites campaigned against it, and it lost. The LibDems then meekly stayed in their coalition.

AV is also called ranked-choice voting or instant-runoff voting. One gives each candidate a preference ranking, and these preferences are then combined with a somewhat complicated algorithm.

Count up the top preferences. If a candidate gets a majority, then that candidate wins. If no candidate gets a majority, then drop the candidate with the fewest votes and ignore that candidate in all upcoming vote counts. Start over.

There is a multiseat extension of AV called Single Transferable Vote. In it, both winners and losers drop out of the count until all seats are filled. It is approximately proportional.