Democrats 2020

[Politesse]

But everyone here thinks current UK politics are a complete dumpster fire, why would we try to imitate their lunacy?

 

[Trausti]

But everyone here thinks current UK politics are a complete dumpster fire, why would we try to imitate their lunacy?

The dumpster fire was the effort to deny Brexit. That's finally quashed.

 

[bilby]

But everyone here thinks current UK politics are a complete dumpster fire, why would we try to imitate their lunacy?

The dumpster fire was the effort to deny Brexit. That's finally quashed.

And you think things will now become less of a clusterfuck?

That's fucking hilarious.

What will happen now is that finally people will stop arguing about whether or not to build a cheese submarine, and they will start trying to build and operate one. People will die. Probably literally.

This may be the end of the crazy political games; But it's not the end of the crazy, and people are about to discover that it was never just a game.

And it sure as shit won't be over anytime soon.

This could be an election the Conservatives end up wishing they hadn't won.

 

[angelo]

Really? You have your position on various issues, I'm sure. If one came up for discussion and the opposition instead of trying to entice you with a statement close to what appeals to you, they went "too hard and too far", would it cause you to shift your position?

Any dealing and final deal will always be dictated by the makeup of the current Congress not by an opening gambit considered an insult by the opposition. Insulting the opposition with what they would consider a preposterous offer is just going to anger them and cause them to dig their heels in. Sanders and Warren have both been in politics long enough to know this.

With the thumping results against socialism in general in the UK, watch the loony US socialists goose step back away from their more extreme left agendas!

43.6% of UK voters voted Conservative. If you add on the Ulster Unionists, Brexit Party, and UKIP, you get to 48% voting for non-socialist candidates, vs 52% voting for various flavours of socialism. That's a thumping defeat for socialism in the same way that the 2016 vote was a thumping defeat for 'leave'.

An 80 seat majority, the biggest Tory win since Maggie Thatcher turfed out the Labour Party, and Labour's worst vote since 1935 isn't enough proof for you that the British voters rejected a near commo agenda big time? It was the same here in Australia. The near commo agenda here also delivered the Labor party it's worse primary vote in 85 years. All that, plus the rejection of the leftist Killery in the States back in 2016 only leads one to one conclusion. Most folk are scared shitless of leftist ideology.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Bernieworld is where I’d like the country to be eventually but we need a bridge to get there, like Biden or Buttigieg.

You aren't going to move to the left without a strong movement in that direction. You need the bold vision and strong advocate who goes "too hard and too far" so the compromise position is actually movement left rather than right. Had Obama struck out for true Universal single payer, you may have the public option right now as the compromise instead of Romneycare.

Really? You have your position on various issues, I'm sure. If one came up for discussion and the opposition instead of trying to entice you with a statement close to what appeals to you, they went "too hard and too far", would it cause you to shift your position?

Any dealing and final deal will always be dictated by the makeup of the current Congress not by an opening gambit considered an insult by the opposition. Insulting the opposition with what they would consider a preposterous offer is just going to anger them and cause them to dig their heels in. Sanders and Warren have both been in politics long enough to know this.

With the thumping results against socialism in general in the UK, watch the loony US socialists goose step back away from their more extreme left agendas!

You're comparing a desirable objective to a undesirable one.

You're comparing a politician wanting to get elected to convincing a politician to support a program they have no interest in supporting. The politician is going to more readily shift their position without enticement to obtain the desirable objective. With the undesirable one, you'll have to entice them.

 

[Derec]

A very small parliament casserole.

 

[fromderinside]

You aren't going to move to the left without a strong movement in that direction. You need the bold vision and strong advocate who goes "too hard and too far" so the compromise position is actually movement left rather than right. Had Obama struck out for true Universal single payer, you may have the public option right now as the compromise instead of Romneycare.

Really? You have your position on various issues, I'm sure. If one came up for discussion and the opposition instead of trying to entice you with a statement close to what appeals to you, they went "too hard and too far", would it cause you to shift your position?

Any dealing and final deal will always be dictated by the makeup of the current Congress not by an opening gambit considered an insult by the opposition. Insulting the opposition with what they would consider a preposterous offer is just going to anger them and cause them to dig their heels in. Sanders and Warren have both been in politics long enough to know this.

With the thumping results against socialism in general in the UK, watch the loony US socialists goose step back away from their more extreme left agendas!

You're comparing a desirable objective to a undesirable one.

You're comparing a politician wanting to get elected to convincing a politician to support a program they have no interest in supporting. The politician is going to more readily shift their position without enticement to obtain the desirable objective. With the undesirable one, you'll have to entice them.

Given what happened in the north I suspect some fell for the false flag argument presented for tories. Things will revert quit quickly when Brexit becomes a get out without a skirt as Boris is wont to do. Nothing about reich or left here except fear and fatigue. Left is still preferred in social services. It will become apparent when the brits try to form a deal with US lead by Trump who wants brits to reject Health Services.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The dumpster fire was the effort to deny Brexit. That's finally quashed.

And you think things will now become less of a clusterfuck?

That's fucking hilarious.

What will happen now is that finally people will stop arguing about whether or not to build a cheese submarine, and they will start trying to build and operate one. People will die. Probably literally.

This may be the end of the crazy political games; But it's not the end of the crazy, and people are about to discover that it was never just a game.

And it sure as shit won't be over anytime soon.

This could be an election the Conservatives end up wishing they hadn't won.

You think Brexit is going to result in deaths. Fascinating.

Are you expecting Britain and Europe to go to war? Are you expecting Britain to cancel the NHS?

 

[bilby]

The dumpster fire was the effort to deny Brexit. That's finally quashed.

And you think things will now become less of a clusterfuck?

That's fucking hilarious.

What will happen now is that finally people will stop arguing about whether or not to build a cheese submarine, and they will start trying to build and operate one. People will die. Probably literally.

This may be the end of the crazy political games; But it's not the end of the crazy, and people are about to discover that it was never just a game.

And it sure as shit won't be over anytime soon.

This could be an election the Conservatives end up wishing they hadn't won.

You think Brexit is going to result in deaths. Fascinating.

Are you expecting Britain and Europe to go to war? Are you expecting Britain to cancel the NHS?

Well Jo Cox already died.

I am expecting an upswing in racist violence against British residents and citizens who don't appear British enough for morons like the EDL and NF. But perhaps more seriously I am expecting food and medicine shortages; and massive economic disruption leading to a big upswing in poverty - people will die because they have to choose between paying for heat, or paying for food. It already happens every winter, much more commonly now than before the insane 'austerity' policy that shows no sign of abating; But Brexit will make it far worse.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

But perhaps more seriously I am expecting food and medicine shortages; and massive economic disruption leading to a big upswing in poverty - people will die because they have to choose between paying for heat, or paying for food. It already happens every winter, much more commonly now than before the insane 'austerity' policy that shows no sign of abating; But Brexit will make it far worse.

Oh wow. So it is your prediction that because Britain pulled out of the EU, there will be a complete and utter trade embargo between the two, that the UK will become a third world country, that all the trade they currently do all over the world will vanish over night, etc.

Will there be waves of refugees crossing the channel to get into France? Will France have a second and very different immigration problem?

You'd have been on more realistic grounds had you predicted the EU ordering limited military strikes with no boots on the ground.

 

[bilby]

But perhaps more seriously I am expecting food and medicine shortages; and massive economic disruption leading to a big upswing in poverty - people will die because they have to choose between paying for heat, or paying for food. It already happens every winter, much more commonly now than before the insane 'austerity' policy that shows no sign of abating; But Brexit will make it far worse.

Oh wow. So it is your prediction that because Britain pulled out of the EU, there will be a complete and utter trade embargo between the two, that the UK will become a third world country, that all the trade they currently do all over the world will vanish over night, etc.

Will there be waves of refugees crossing the channel to get into France? Will France have a second and very different immigration problem?

You'd have been on more realistic grounds had you predicted the EU ordering limited military strikes with no boots on the ground.

There's no need for any embargo. Just adding a simple paperwork check, nevermind full customs inspection, to truck traffic at the port of Dover is anticipated by Kent County Council to cause twenty five miles of truck queues. The UK and France don't have, and cannot rapidly create, the capacity to properly inspect all cross channel freight; And the EU is not going to allow un-inspected or undocumented cargoes to enter its borders.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/21/uk-main-ports-brexit-chaos-portsmouth-dover

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So you predict the EU will declare all freight from the UK to be subject to full inspection as if it is coming from a 3rd world country, instead of making a more reasonable trade deal as if between two unaffiliated first world countries.

Therefore you predict that the EU will punish the UK for leaving. That says far more about the EU than the UK.

Plus isn't it even a tiny bit possible that the UK will decide "Gee, the EU is making trade difficult, I suppose I will trade more with my many other trading partners. Hey, Commonwealth, let's trade. Hey, US, let's trade. What's that? Russia? You want to trade? Okay."

 

[bilby]

So you predict the EU will declare all freight from the UK to be subject to full inspection as if it is coming from a 3rd world country, instead of making a more reasonable trade deal as if between two unaffiliated first world countries.

Well, that's the default position, unless and until such a deal has been struck. BJ is talking about leaving the EU on 31 Jan - no way on Earth will any such deal be finalised by then.

Therefore you predict that the EU will punish the UK for leaving.

Not at all. The EU just won't bust a gut trying to defend the UK from the perfectly predictable consequences of their own actions.

That says far more about the EU than the UK.

Your mischaracterising of the situation as "the EU will punish the UK" says more about you than about either.

Plus isn't it even a tiny bit possible that the UK will decide "Gee, the EU is making trade difficult, I suppose I will trade more with my many other trading partners. Hey, Commonwealth, let's trade. Hey, US, let's trade. What's that? Russia? You want to trade? Okay."

The UK will, eventually, be able to do that. But it's a drop in the ocean compared to trade with the EU; And negotiating a trade deal takes time. Negotiating hundreds takes a LOT of time.

Meanwhile, the freight is rotting in truck parks on both sides of the Channel.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I kinda get the feeling that the EU would suffer more from trying to punish the UK than the UK would. That's the funny thing about trade wars.

They will, and not just eventually, replace the trade with trading with the Commonwealth, because contrary to your opinion the UK isn't some backwards 3rd world country. The freight won't be rotting waiting to enter Europe, it will be sent to the Commonwealth, the US, and Russia instead.

 

[bilby]

I kinda get the feeling that the EU would suffer more from trying to punish the UK than the UK would. That's the funny thing about trade wars.

I don't think the EU have any intention of attempting to punish the UK. I don't think they even care too much whether the UK stays or goes. And I am sure that they recognise that the UK is doing so much damage to themselves that any attempt at punishment would be lost in the mix - even if they were inclined to make such an attempt, which they are not.

They will, and not just eventually, replace the trade with trading with the Commonwealth, because contrary to your opinion the UK isn't some backwards 3rd world country. The freight won't be rotting waiting to enter Europe, it will be sent to the Commonwealth, the US, and Russia instead.

The only deals currently in place between the UK and any other nation are EU deals. What are the new deals going to magically spring from on January 31st? And if these don't include a deal with the EU, where are those 48% of UK exports going to go? Is every non-Eu nation going to double their orders from the UK? Why would they?

The Commonwealth, US, and Russia don't want it, and if they did, they wouldn't be prepared to take it under the terms of a trade deal to whick the UK is no longer a party.

Your imaginary ideals of free trade are not part of the real world.

Absent a deal - and until one is negotiated - UK trade with any other nation would be under the WTO default terms, as used by such free trade powerhouses as Liberia.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

They have time to negotiate deals with other countries while the details with the EU are being settled. If you think leaving the EU will turn the UK into Liberia, you're the one engaging in imagination.

 

[lpetrich]

Teddy Schleifer on Twitter: "Here are some photos of the Buttigieg fundraiser in Napa -- with the famous wine cave and the chandelier with 1,500 Swarovski crystals -- that @BrianSlodysko wrote about.
[url]https://t.co/0sprQ3aDsy https://t.co/3waO6jO93L" / Twitter[/url]

One of the pictures shows PB seated at one of the tables.

Photos Leaked From Pete Buttigieg's Closed-Door Napa Valley Fundraiser | HuffPost has more.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

OMFG!!! A guy running for President meeting with a bunch of uber-connected guys that would be influencing legislation and regulations if he were elected President. I'm shocked!

For crying outloud! The media, social media just want to raise everyone up, to just tear them back down. This is reckless reporting!

 

[TV and credit cards]

How dare he! How dare he accept donations so indiscriminately.
Where’s Madame Guillotine?

“The only thing people are promised at an event with Pete is that he will use that money to beat Donald Trump.”

According to Open Secrets, I’m a big money donor to Pete. Reckon I could have him over to my condo. We could sip Great Lakes Christmas Ale under my $85 Lowe’s hanging lamp.

Im starting to look at some of my favorite left leaning news sites the way I do Fox.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

He needs Joe Biden as his VP running mate so they can be PB&J. Very folksy.