Democrats 2020

[PyramidHead]

Everyone arguing against M4A is literally saying tens of thousands of people should die from treatable illness because they are too poor to deserve treatment.

The fact that it would save hundreds of millions of dollars is an irrelevant detail in the end; even if it would cost more, a sane and compassionate society would do it anyway because people shouldn't die from diseases that are easily cured because of being poor or unemployed. That's the entire issue, and you are either on board with fighting for it as hard as possible and using every tool at your disposal to do so, or you're a craven asshole who things now is the time to triangulate on basic human rights.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Everyone arguing against M4A is literally saying tens of thousands of people should die from treatable illness because they are too poor to deserve treatment.

Absurd.

Some people understand that the government is the worst way to provide vital services, and wonder why you wish those people to suffer and die because the government would be the service provider.

You probably think our current system is a free market system (healthcare and finance are two of the most highly regulated industries in the US, and health insurance exists at the intersection of the two). Another fine product of government education.

 

[Elixir]

Some people understand that the government is the worst way to provide vital services

Yeah, mostly propaganda-soaked ignorant morons.
Certainly not the people in Australia, Canada, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, the Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, or the United Kingdom where single payer, universal health care has been successfully implemented for decades and nobody is clamoring to get rid of it.

 

[PyramidHead]

I would love to understand the mind of the kind of person who thinks national health care service is unworkable while also knowing that something called "your complete medical records" exists somewhere

 

[lpetrich]

Some people understand that the government is the worst way to provide vital services, and wonder why you wish those people to suffer and die because the government would be the service provider.

Like protection services?

Should we abolish government military and police forces? According to capitalism-apologist ideology, if soldiers' and cops' protection services are valuable, then people will voluntarily pay them for providing those services. No government coercion necessary.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Everyone arguing against M4A is literally saying tens of thousands of people should die from treatable illness because they are too poor to deserve treatment.

Absurd.

Some people understand that the government is the worst way to provide vital services...

Yeah, that was the 19th century. Since then, we've learned that the Federal Government can provide some level of services (Military, Social Security, Medicare) and the nation is better of. Insurance companies were the ones who insisted on the creation of Fire Departments.

and wonder why you wish those people to suffer and die because the government would be the service provider.

Technically, the Government wouldn't be providing the health care. IE the colonoscopy is being performed by a doctor, not a Republican House Staffer. The government would be the one shuffling the money to pay for the health care system.

You probably think our current system is a free market system (healthcare and finance are two of the most highly regulated industries in the US, and health insurance exists at the intersection of the two). Another fine product of government education.

The "free market" is kind of like the tooth fairy. It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as a "free market", because if the Government doesn't impose restrictions and access in an economic system, corporations will. We learned this in the 19th century as well with the monopolies.

 

[PyramidHead]

Bloomberg's health is probably better: his stent was put into place to prevent a heart attack. Sanders’ was put in to prevent ANOTHER heart attack. Subtle difference but heart attacks always cause some damage. I think they are both too old but I think Bloomberg’s health is likely better.

And that's the only relevant difference between the two, which is why Bloomberg is better than Bernie. Amazing. It comes down to the guy who had a heart attack versus the guy with no heart, and you're picking nits about which stage of preventative care their stents were intended to fulfill.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Everyone arguing against M4A is literally saying tens of thousands of people should die from treatable illness because they are too poor to deserve treatment.

I'm not a big fan of this argument as you don't have to die to suffer. Millions of Americans are suffering more than they should because of access issues with our health care system. No one should suffer needlessly in this country. "Reducing regulations" doesn't make diagnostic equipment cheaper, nor does it make getting a medical degree cheaper, nor does it help keep the lights on in the buildings cheaper. Our medical infrastructure has a cost. We all need to use it at some point in our lives, we should all be helping pay for it, not paying for it through some bizarre lottery where the people who suffer the most should pay the most.

 

[Elixir]

Some people understand that the government is the worst way to provide vital services, and wonder why you wish those people to suffer and die because the government would be the service provider.

Like protection services?

Should we abolish government military and police forces? According to capitalism-apologist ideology, if soldiers' and cops' protection services are valuable, then people will voluntarily pay them for providing those services. No government coercion necessary.

Lol! One might think you were responding to a troll.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Health issues were definitely raised with John McCain. It isn't insignificant with Sanders. The White House is a terrible strain. Sanders will need to balance the ticket with someone notably younger, but still a strong statesman, because his health is problematic.

And enough with the strawman arguments. Toni is hardly on the Bloomberg bus.

 

[Worldtraveller]

So will Warren's numbers go up after last night's debate? Will she be back in the running after putting Bloomberg over her proverbial knee and giving him a spanking on live TV?

Biden actually did better than (I) expected. Sanders overall had a pretty strong performance, as well.

Honestly, at this point, I'm hoping it comes down to a Warren/Sanders ticket, and I don't really care which one gets top billing.

 

[Jayjay]

Regarding the health issue, instead of defending Biden's or Sanders' health, they should attack Trump's. Both the mental decline and his possible heart conditions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So will Warren's numbers go up after last night's debate? Will she be back in the running after putting Bloomberg over her proverbial knee and giving him a spanking on live TV?

It is hard to tell. Warren's numbers went up because she performed well months ago, then they went down because... ?

Biden actually did better than (I) expected. Sanders overall had a pretty strong performance, as well.

Honestly, at this point, I'm hoping it comes down to a Warren/Sanders ticket, and I don't really care which one gets top billing.

Warren / Sanders would likely lose.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Warren / Sanders would likely lose.

I disagree. After last night, I picture Warren going after trump like she did Bloomberg. He wouldn't know how to react (assuming he'll actually show up for a debate). If she could maintain that kind of posture, I think he would come off terribly under that kind of attack.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Regarding the health issue, instead of defending Biden's or Sanders' health, they should attack Trump's. Both the mental decline and his possible heart conditions.

He'll just publish his doctor's exam results.
"Donald is the greatest health possible in a hooman being. He tests well under pressure and all the tests came back posteeve. Signed 45's doctor. PS. I am also the worlds' greatest pshy- pysco- piscologist and Trump is a very stable genius."

 

[PyramidHead]

Warren / Sanders would likely lose.

I disagree. After last night, I picture Warren going after trump like she did Bloomberg. He wouldn't know how to react (assuming he'll actually show up for a debate). If she could maintain that kind of posture, I think he would come off terribly under that kind of attack.

Warren cratered in the polls soon after her watered-down plan for Medicare for All revealed her to be closer in policy to Biden than Sanders, and continued to plummet when she accused Sanders of sexism, and fell even further when she joined the chorus of scolding his supporters on Twitter. She did admirably last night, but she isn't impressing the people that need to be impressed in the general election. And I'm sorry, but if you honestly are unable to withstand somebody on social media posting a picture of a pig pooping on its own balls and calling you a snake, you have no business saying you would hold your own being heckled at a comedy club, nevermind onstage against Trump.

 

[Toni]

Warren / Sanders would likely lose.

I disagree. After last night, I picture Warren going after trump like she did Bloomberg. He wouldn't know how to react (assuming he'll actually show up for a debate). If she could maintain that kind of posture, I think he would come off terribly under that kind of attack.

Warren cratered in the polls soon after her watered-down plan for Medicare for All revealed her to be closer in policy to Biden than Sanders, and continued to plummet when she accused Sanders of sexism, and fell even further when she joined the chorus of scolding his supporters on Twitter. She did admirably last night, but she isn't impressing the people that need to be impressed in the general election. And I'm sorry, but if you honestly are unable to withstand somebody on social media posting a picture of a pig pooping on its own balls and calling you a snake, you have no business saying you would hold your own being heckled at a comedy club, nevermind onstage against Trump.

Honestly? Warren is easily the toughest one still standing.

My husband kept asking what was wrong with Sanders' face. He thought he didn't look good. I actually thought Sanders looked better than any time I've seen him in the past year but then I also didn't notice spittle flying so much and he managed to keep from poking his finger at the air.

I also don't think that the debates matter much in the Presidential race. Clinton cleaned Trump's clock and she lost (based on electoral votes). I personally think she made a mistake by not calling him out when he was stalking her around the stage. If it had been me, I would have paused the debate and publicly asked if someone could help Donald find the little boys' room. He was doing that thing that toddlers do when they are about to go pee pee.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Warren / Sanders would likely lose.

I disagree.

Clearly.

After last night, I picture Warren going after trump like she did Bloomberg. He wouldn't know how to react (assuming he'll actually show up for a debate). If she could maintain that kind of posture, I think he would come off terribly under that kind of attack.

Warren and Sanders isn't a balanced ticket. Two old white liberals, who energize some, but not all.

 

[PyramidHead]

Warren cratered in the polls soon after her watered-down plan for Medicare for All revealed her to be closer in policy to Biden than Sanders, and continued to plummet when she accused Sanders of sexism, and fell even further when she joined the chorus of scolding his supporters on Twitter. She did admirably last night, but she isn't impressing the people that need to be impressed in the general election. And I'm sorry, but if you honestly are unable to withstand somebody on social media posting a picture of a pig pooping on its own balls and calling you a snake, you have no business saying you would hold your own being heckled at a comedy club, nevermind onstage against Trump.

Honestly? Warren is easily the toughest one still standing.

My husband kept asking what was wrong with Sanders' face. He thought he didn't look good. I actually thought Sanders looked better than any time I've seen him in the past year but then I also didn't notice spittle flying so much and he managed to keep from poking his finger at the air.

What can be said about this, other than it's a thing that was typed by someone? Moving on

I also don't think that the debates matter much in the Presidential race. Clinton cleaned Trump's clock and she lost (based on electoral votes). I personally think she made a mistake by not calling him out when he was stalking her around the stage. If it had been me, I would have paused the debate and publicly asked if someone could help Donald find the little boys' room. He was doing that thing that toddlers do when they are about to go pee pee.

All of the people in America who would be impressed by that voted for Hillary Clinton in the general election

 

[TSwizzle]

Warren cratered in the polls soon after her watered-down plan for Medicare for All revealed her to be closer in policy to Biden than Sanders, and continued to plummet when she accused Sanders of sexism, and fell even further when she joined the chorus of scolding his supporters on Twitter. She did admirably last night, but she isn't impressing the people that need to be impressed in the general election. And I'm sorry, but if you honestly are unable to withstand somebody on social media posting a picture of a pig pooping on its own balls and calling you a snake, you have no business saying you would hold your own being heckled at a comedy club, nevermind onstage against Trump.

Honestly? Warren is easily the toughest one still standing.

By toughest do you mean ranting and snarling about irrelevancies like an unhinged lunatic ? She looked like a crazy old school dinner lady up there.