Democrats 2020

[skepticalbip]

Bernie Sanders is known for having belligerent "Bernie Bro" followers, followers, who are sometimes rather sexist.

Which is like Al Gore being 'known' to have claimed to invent the internet. The 'Bernie Bro' is pretty much a myth.

The reason people say that Gore claimed to create the internet (at about 0.5 minutes)

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The methodology is largely obscure and untested.

Seriously? In comparison to your methodology which is...non-existent...based on an opposition narrative that was originally used against Obama...and then re-tooled for the new opposition, Bernie...and then used as a meme, matching anecdotes and confirmation bias. Now, what kind of methodology is that? Answer: faith-based.

If you don't like his methodology, then okay, how's this? Much of the Bernie support has gone to Biden because Biden is more popular than Bernie right now. There is an expectation of cross-over. That means at least some Bernie bros from 2016 have become Biden Bros in 2020. Don't believe it? Then, how's this? Studies show that the demographics of Bernie's supporters are largely women and many more minorities than all the other candidates, until just recently when Biden got endorsements by Sen Clyburn, but Bernie was in second place above all the other candidates save Biden in that category. Still think what I am saying is bunk? Okay, then: where did the Hillary campaign claim she lost votes because of misogyny? Answer: the rust belt. Who just won Michigan and did well with blue collar Reagan Democrats who were said to be misogynist? Further: who is using his No Malarkey campaign to actually be an Alpha Male campaign, threatening people, swearing at them, challenging them to push-ups? Whose supporters are cheering this on?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Bernie Sanders is known for having belligerent "Bernie Bro" followers, followers, who are sometimes rather sexist.

Which is like Al Gore being 'known' to have claimed to invent the internet. The 'Bernie Bro' is pretty much a myth.

The reason people say that Gore claimed to create the internet (at about 0.5 minutes)

Gore: "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." I think you are thinking of "I have initiative because I created the Internet." Are you able to think about a possible difference in how you ought to interpret these two statements? Suppose he instead said, "I initiated the creation of the Internet through legislation that I sponsored and promoted that transformed ARPANET into a global network." Are these consistent or different? And is it accurate?

 

[skepticalbip]

The reason people say that Gore claimed to create the internet (at about 0.5 minutes)

Gore: "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." I think you are thinking of "I have initiative because I created the Internet." Are you able to think about a possible difference in how you ought to interpret these two statements? Suppose he instead said, "I initiated the creation of the Internet through legislation that I sponsored and promoted that transformed ARPANET into a global network." Are these consistent or different? And is it accurate?

You can interpret, justify, or hand wave what he "really meant" but the clip is an example of why people say he claimed to have created the internet. All politicians have talking points and lists of accomplishments that they repeat over and over in interviews and stump speeches so the list he gave here was heard several times in different venues across the country.

 

[ZiprHead]

Bernie Sanders finally wins California

It’s finally official: Sen. Bernie Sanders has won the California primary, guaranteeing him an influx of delegates and momentum as he tries to stave off gains by former Vice President Joe Biden.

While this victory was expected, it’s taken on greater importance for Sanders, enabling him to claim a major Super Tuesday success after Biden swept the lion’s share of states in the past two weeks. Of the 14 states that voted on Super Tuesday, Sanders won only four. And in the week that followed, he’s picked up just one so far.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The reason people say that Gore claimed to create the internet (at about 0.5 minutes)

Gore: "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." I think you are thinking of "I have initiative because I created the Internet." Are you able to think about a possible difference in how you ought to interpret these two statements? Suppose he instead said, "I initiated the creation of the Internet through legislation that I sponsored and promoted that transformed ARPANET into a global network." Are these consistent or different? And is it accurate?

You can interpret, justify, or hand wave what he "really meant" but the clip is an example of why people say he claimed to have created the internet. All politicians have talking points and lists of accomplishments that they repeat over and over in interviews and stump speeches so the list he gave here was heard several times in different venues across the country.

You didn't answer any question I asked you. I asked technical questions in order to have a rational discussion. Instead, you claimed I was hand-waving. I will give you another chance now. Please answer the questions.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Bernie Sanders finally wins California

It’s finally official: Sen. Bernie Sanders has won the California primary, guaranteeing him an influx of delegates and momentum as he tries to stave off gains by former Vice President Joe Biden.

While this victory was expected, it’s taken on greater importance for Sanders, enabling him to claim a major Super Tuesday success after Biden swept the lion’s share of states in the past two weeks. Of the 14 states that voted on Super Tuesday, Sanders won only four. And in the week that followed, he’s picked up just one so far.

He would have also finally won Iowa if there was a full recount.

 

[skepticalbip]

You can interpret, justify, or hand wave what he "really meant" but the clip is an example of why people say he claimed to have created the internet. All politicians have talking points and lists of accomplishments that they repeat over and over in interviews and stump speeches so the list he gave here was heard several times in different venues across the country.

You didn't answer any question I asked you. I asked technical questions in order to have a rational discussion. Instead, you claimed I was hand-waving. I will give you another chance now. Please answer the questions.

WTF? I gave no personal opinion. I only showed why people say that Gore claimed to have created the internet. I have no idea what Gore was thinking or why he expressed it the way he did. I'm not a fucking mind reader... and neither are you.

Now, do you or do you not agree that this statement by Gore is what caused people to say that Gore claimed the creation?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You can interpret, justify, or hand wave what he "really meant" but the clip is an example of why people say he claimed to have created the internet. All politicians have talking points and lists of accomplishments that they repeat over and over in interviews and stump speeches so the list he gave here was heard several times in different venues across the country.

You didn't answer any question I asked you. I asked technical questions in order to have a rational discussion. Instead, you claimed I was hand-waving. I will give you another chance now. Please answer the questions.

WTF? I gave no personal opinion. I only showed why people say that Gore claimed to have created the internet. I have no idea what Gore was thinking or why he expressed it the way he did. I'm not a fucking mind reader.

Now, do you or do you not agree that this statement by Gore is what caused people to say that Gore claimed the creation?

No I don't think exactly that. I think that most causes of events in life are mutli-factorial. So a person would be much more likely to hear that and take it out of context or choose one interpretation over another based on ignorance about Gore, based on what they know about what policies he initiated, what their Democrat or Republican echo chamber tells them or doesn't tell them, etc. Likely, they also only heard a phrase in a commercial for politics. So, I am sure that taking a snippet of that and putting it out there context-less would definitely impact some people so that those persons would have a higher probability of thinking that. But again, it's A AND B AND C AND D ==> E, not F ==> G.

 

[skepticalbip]

WTF? I gave no personal opinion. I only showed why people say that Gore claimed to have created the internet. I have no idea what Gore was thinking or why he expressed it the way he did. I'm not a fucking mind reader.

Now, do you or do you not agree that this statement by Gore is what caused people to say that Gore claimed the creation?

No I don't think exactly that. I think that most causes of events in life are mutli-factorial. So a person would be much more likely to hear that and take it out of context or choose one interpretation over another based on ignorance about Gore, based on what they know about what policies he initiated, what their Democrat or Republican echo chamber tells them or doesn't tell them, etc. Likely, they also only heard a phrase in a commercial for politics. So, I am sure that taking a snippet of that and putting it out there context-less would definitely impact some people so that those persons would have a higher probability of thinking that. But again, it's A AND B AND C AND D ==> E, not F ==> G.

You seem to be missing that if Gore had not made the statement then no one would have said that he claimed it. Ergo, his statement is what caused people to say he made the claim. That gets back to the reason for my linking the clip, to show where the idea that he claimed the creation came from.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

WTF? I gave no personal opinion. I only showed why people say that Gore claimed to have created the internet. I have no idea what Gore was thinking or why he expressed it the way he did. I'm not a fucking mind reader.

Now, do you or do you not agree that this statement by Gore is what caused people to say that Gore claimed the creation?

No I don't think exactly that. I think that most causes of events in life are mutli-factorial. So a person would be much more likely to hear that and take it out of context or choose one interpretation over another based on ignorance about Gore, based on what they know about what policies he initiated, what their Democrat or Republican echo chamber tells them or doesn't tell them, etc. Likely, they also only heard a phrase in a commercial for politics. So, I am sure that taking a snippet of that and putting it out there context-less would definitely impact some people so that those persons would have a higher probability of thinking that. But again, it's A AND B AND C AND D ==> E, not F ==> G.

You seem to be missing that if Gore had not made the statement then no one would have said that he claimed it. Ergo, his statement is what caused people to say he made the claim. That gets back to the reason for my linking the clip, to show where the idea that he claimed the creation came from.

Wrong. People did not watch the interview and honestly come out of it thinking he said "I invented the Internet." A political campaign and sensationalist media twisted his exact words and played those twisted words over and over again. Those are events B and C. So A AND B AND C increase the probability of a listener to the campaign that they will swallow the distortion. If B and C did not exist, then nearly no one would think that Al Gore said "I invented the Internet."

Here is snopes on the subject:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/internet-of-lies/

Claim debunked.

Q.E.D.

 

[skepticalbip]

^ ^ ^
Spin..

I remember the campaign and even left leaning TV comics were making jokes about Gore's list of accomplishments.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

^ ^ ^
Spin..

I remember the campaign and even left leaning TV comics were making jokes about Gore's list of accomplishments.

Yeah and? The for-profit corporate media engages in sensationalism because it wants a profit. And you just admitted people heard it from those media which was twisting it into "I invented the Internet." Don't dig the hole deeper. Just admit it and move on.

 

[skepticalbip]

^ ^ ^
Spin..

I remember the campaign and even left leaning TV comics were making jokes about Gore's list of accomplishments.

Yeah and? The for-profit corporate media engages in sensationalism because it wants a profit. And you just admitted people heard it from those media which was twisting it into "I invented the Internet." Don't dig the hole deeper. Just admit it and move on.

Accept your fantasy and ignore reality??? I think not. Everything that disagrees with your political views is not a conspiracy against you.

ETA:
I suggest you watch that little clip and listen to what is said literally, not with your interpretation of "what it really meant". Do I think Gore believed he created the internet? Absolutely not. Why he phrased it the way he did, I don't have a clue.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

^ ^ ^
Spin..

I remember the campaign and even left leaning TV comics were making jokes about Gore's list of accomplishments.

Yeah and? The for-profit corporate media engages in sensationalism because it wants a profit. And you just admitted people heard it from those media which was twisting it into "I invented the Internet." Don't dig the hole deeper. Just admit it and move on.

Accept your fantasy and ignore reality??? I think not.

Snopes is not spin. Bye.

 

[Elixir]

Accept your fantasy and ignore reality??? I think not.

Snopes is not spin. Bye.

If you were there you should recall the laugh-riot reaction to the claim that was actually made. Snopes IS literalist 'spin' in this case - it's clearly true that he didn't intend to, nor did he exactly claim to have invented the internet. But he used words that could easily be interpreted that way, and it constituted a massive blunder.

 

[Copernicus]

The methodology is largely obscure and untested.

Seriously? In comparison to your methodology which is...non-existent...based on an opposition narrative that was originally used against Obama...and then re-tooled for the new opposition, Bernie...and then used as a meme, matching anecdotes and confirmation bias. Now, what kind of methodology is that? Answer: faith-based.

You should not jump to conclusions based on your ignorance of my background, Don. I am a linguist with a 30-year background in the technology, and I sometimes evaluated such systems for my former employer, where I held the title of "associate technical fellow". The methodology was obscure to me, because I could not find any details on it, and untested because it is based on the work of a graduate student who is likely using it for a PhD dissertation that has yet to be vetted. (I don't know that for a fact, but that seems likely to me.) I am very familiar with the type of text mining software that they use in profiling, but I don't know which approach this person was using. That said, I have real doubts that they had much of an operational definition of a "Bernie bro" or what kinds of data they gathered from Twitter and, perhaps, other social media. There are serious practical problems in extracting text from social media. I've worked with training sets extracted from social media, so I know what some of the technical hurdles are. I would be curious to know more about the research, but I don't trust people with a strong pro-Bernie bias to conduct an objective study.

If you don't like his methodology, then okay, how's this? Much of the Bernie support has gone to Biden because Biden is more popular than Bernie right now. There is an expectation of cross-over. That means at least some Bernie bros from 2016 have become Biden Bros in 2020. Don't believe it? Then, how's this? Studies show that the demographics of Bernie's supporters are largely women and many more minorities than all the other candidates, until just recently when Biden got endorsements by Sen Clyburn, but Bernie was in second place above all the other candidates save Biden in that category. Still think what I am saying is bunk? Okay, then: where did the Hillary campaign claim she lost votes because of misogyny? Answer: the rust belt. Who just won Michigan and did well with blue collar Reagan Democrats who were said to be misogynist? Further: who is using his No Malarkey campaign to actually be an Alpha Male campaign, threatening people, swearing at them, challenging them to push-ups? Whose supporters are cheering this on?

You are mixing a lot of unrelated issues here with the problem that Bernie Sanders himself acknowledged in his interview with Rachel Maddow. Did you watch it? She asked him a question about tactics such as doxing, the use of smear tactics, and online bullying. He acknowledged that some of his supporters had seriously stepped over the line. It is fair to say that some of that goes on in all campaigns, but the "Bernie bro" label does get associated with misogynistic language like "corporate whore". But I really disagree with you if you think that Bernie's aggressive online supporters were equally matched by Warren's or those of other candidates. He is a street fighter when he feels backed into a corner, and I think that some of his supporters have perhaps taken things a lot farther than he has. I have not seen much similar behavior from Warren supporters, although you do get more of it from the Biden camp, I think. Biden himself has anger management issues, and he can become abusive and confused when he goes on the attack. If he were a woman, he wouldn't be able to get away with it as much as he has.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Bernie Sanders finally wins California

It’s finally official: Sen. Bernie Sanders has won the California primary, guaranteeing him an influx of delegates and momentum as he tries to stave off gains by former Vice President Joe Biden.

While this victory was expected, it’s taken on greater importance for Sanders, enabling him to claim a major Super Tuesday success after Biden swept the lion’s share of states in the past two weeks. Of the 14 states that voted on Super Tuesday, Sanders won only four. And in the week that followed, he’s picked up just one so far.

Putin was able to delay the results, but Sanders won that one anyway.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Bernie Sanders finally wins California

It’s finally official: Sen. Bernie Sanders has won the California primary, guaranteeing him an influx of delegates and momentum as he tries to stave off gains by former Vice President Joe Biden.

While this victory was expected, it’s taken on greater importance for Sanders, enabling him to claim a major Super Tuesday success after Biden swept the lion’s share of states in the past two weeks. Of the 14 states that voted on Super Tuesday, Sanders won only four. And in the week that followed, he’s picked up just one so far.

Putin was able to delay the results, but Sanders won that one anyway.

The delegates are proportionally allocated. California will essentially give about 50% of their delegates to Biden, 50% to Sanders. But Biden cleaned house in the other states. The race is over. Biden will be the democratic candidate.

 

[laughing dog]

Putin was able to delay the results, but Sanders won that one anyway.

The delegates are proportionally allocated. California will essentially give about 50% of their delegates to Biden, 50% to Sanders. But Biden cleaned house in the other states. The race is over. Biden will be the democratic candidate.

It is not over until it is over. A lot can happen in the next couple of months that might change the apparent outcome.