Jason Harvestdancer
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I'd respond with "Well, it depends on the Republican" but they chased out the Ron Paul supporters in 2012 and they haven't come back.
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Democrats 2020
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southernhybrid
Contributor
Biden didn't do anything that most women, including those who complained about him, would be considered sexual harassment or sexual assault. It's been known for decades that Biden was an extremely affectionate person, with both men and women. Most older women don't seem bothered by this, while most younger women do. I guess one could say that the culture is changing. I'm not so sure that's a good thing, but I have virtually no influence on cultural change at this point in my life.
One can criticize or support Biden for many different reasons, but I think he was unfairly judged by these so called accusations. Oddly enough, he remains the most popular one in the latest polls, and he has said that he plans to announce his bid later this month. We shall see. Considering his age, and the fact that younger voters prefer someone much further to the left, I doubt he will become the nominee.
I just hope that we don't make the mistake that we made during my youth when my generation supported George McGovern. McGovern, imo, was one of the countries greatest liberals, but he was obviously too liberal to win an election in 1972 against crooked Nixon, who beat him in a landslide. So, if you wonder why so many of us older adults are skeptical about some of the more progressive candidates, one reason is that we learned though our own experience by supporting the most progressive candidate in 1972. For those who weren't adults in 1972, I assure you that the country was far more progressive in the early 70s than it is today. We are living in the most crazy conservative times that I've ever experienced in my life. I'm also disappointed that the most progressive candidates keep throwing out ideas but rarely explain how those ideas could possibly come to fruition.
All I really care about is having a candidate that can beat Trump. I am highly skeptical that that person will be one of the more progressive people running. Trump has done more damage to the country than anyone in my lifetime. He is a huge threat to our democracy. I've never seen Democrats acting as crazy as they are lately, when it comes to expecting perfection. Democrats are eating their own! That's a very worrisome sign to me.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Yeah, but under 4th wave feminism the definition of harassment has broadened to the point where it essentially means if she feels uncomfortable in any way at any time then it was harassment. Hyperbole? Perhaps, but hyperbole supported by incidents that say the same.
Hyperbole and feargasm.
Hyperbole and feargasm.
PyramidHead
Contributor
That's clear, for sure. It's a good thing the candidate with the right values is also the current front-runner. But even if he wasn't, I'd still vote for him in the primary (though whoever is nominated to oppose Trump would get my vote in the general).
PyramidHead
Contributor
How is a man in a position of power making a woman uncomfortable with unwanted physical contact not sexual harassment? It's amazing how the call goes out to believe all women who report these things until somebody like Biden is in the crosshairs. When it's a guy like Al Franken, cancelled and never heard from in politics again.
Yet, I do agree on your larger point that this shouldn't be the focus of Biden's candidacy, since even liberals who don't call themselves progressive should see by now that Biden is basically a conservative Republican from the 90's.
Well, all the polls have basically every Dem candidate beating Trump, with Bernie on top among those who have announced. What would allay your skepticism, if not that?
It's actually a good sign when what people consider "their own" is not a matter of party labels but priorities, principles, and behavior. Parties should be tools that people use to enact policies that align with their interests, and tools need cleaning every once in a while or else they start to rust. The bar has gotten so low that falling short of "perfection" can literally be a matter of how a candidate views human beings as deserving of basic compassion or not. When demanding a conscience from our representatives is viewed as crazy gatekeeping, that's when you know the time has come for the organization called the Democratic Party to cannibalize itself and start fresh.
Derec
Contributor
Because "feeling uncomfortable" is a very subjective thing. Unless the person (I do not think there should be different standards for men and women) tells another about feeling uncomfortable and the other person does not adjust behavior, I do not see how merely "feeling uncomfortable" is harassment, sexual or otherwise.
What happened to Franken was also BS, and a great shame for the Senate. A comedian posing for an image air-groping a woman who was, on the same tour, making crude jokes as well? Gimme me a fucking break!
Now, both Biden and Franken have been, in recent years great supporters of movement feminism. I guess it's live by the "believe all women", die by "believe all women" kind of thing.
Ultimately, this overreaction is detrimental to the Democratic Party, and if not checked, may mean Trump wins in 2020. It's like Saul Alinsky's 4th rule for radicals, but turned inward, like some ideological version of an autoimmune disease.
Is he really? By what measure?
Polls are pretty much useless at this point in the cycle. And national polls have limited utility anyway, because of the Electoral College. That's Biden's big selling point - he can talk to those Rust Belt states that Hillary lost.
In what way does Biden view human beings as not "deserving of basic compassion"? Be specific.
Derec
Contributor
I do not think we can talk the front-runner. It's still early days.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
I listened to a podcast that interviewed Stacey Abrams today. I was super impressed. She is wicked smart and has great wit. How Abrams for president, Biden for VP?
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blastula
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Bernie Sanders declines to say when he will release tax returns - CNNPolitics
Something's up with his taxes. He only released one year's last election. He's going to have to though, some states are requiring it to be on the ballot.
Something's up with his taxes. He only released one year's last election. He's going to have to though, some states are requiring it to be on the ballot.
Derec
Contributor
Yeah there is a definite gender double standard to this hysteria.
southernhybrid
Contributor
None of the women I know personally feel that Biden did anything wrong. If women were uncomfortable with him touching them in a non sexual way, then women should have spoken up a long time ago. As far as Flores goes, she can deny that she did this for political reasons all day long, and I still won't believe her. She should have said something long before now. What is wrong with my female cohorts that they can't even find the courage to tell a man if they feel he's "in their space"?
Mika on Morning Joe, was saying something similar this morning. They also discussed the fact that some of this is due to cultural issues. They mentioned that Jimmy Carter is also fairly affectionate and some northern women felt uncomfortable with that when he hugged them during the funeral of JFK. Southerners tend to be much more touchy feely affectionate compared to northerners. I personally love the more affectionate nature of southerners. It was a nice change for me after being raised in a culture that I found lacking in warmth and affection.
And, btw, Tim Ryan, the congressman from Ohio has entered the presidential race today. So, who here is about to announce their run?
I also saw Stacy Abrams interviewed on three different television shows this week. I already knew she was brilliant! She said if she decides to run for president, she will wait to the fall to announce it. She denied that Biden ever asked her to run as his VP, but she said if she is asked to be the nominee's VP, she would certainly consider it. Imo, she is the most brilliant politician I've ever known.
Mika on Morning Joe, was saying something similar this morning. They also discussed the fact that some of this is due to cultural issues. They mentioned that Jimmy Carter is also fairly affectionate and some northern women felt uncomfortable with that when he hugged them during the funeral of JFK. Southerners tend to be much more touchy feely affectionate compared to northerners. I personally love the more affectionate nature of southerners. It was a nice change for me after being raised in a culture that I found lacking in warmth and affection.
And, btw, Tim Ryan, the congressman from Ohio has entered the presidential race today. So, who here is about to announce their run?
I also saw Stacy Abrams interviewed on three different television shows this week. I already knew she was brilliant! She said if she decides to run for president, she will wait to the fall to announce it. She denied that Biden ever asked her to run as his VP, but she said if she is asked to be the nominee's VP, she would certainly consider it. Imo, she is the most brilliant politician I've ever known.
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southernhybrid
Contributor
Nope! More like an understatement! Trump is the most incompetent, corrupt president I've ever seen. Unless your only source of news in Fox, I honestly don't see how any intelligent person can deny that.
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Not to mention his cult followers are crazy.
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Not to mention his cult followers are crazy.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Then you should study history.
By studying history.
Opponents of Trump are saying he is the worst ever.
Opponents of Obama said he was the worst ever.
Opponents of Bush said he was the worst ever.
Opponents of Clinton said he was the worst ever.
If all those "worst ever" president are indeed the worst ever, we've gone on a very very steep decline unprecedented in historical terms.
I don't see how Biden can overcome this (while being an old heterosexual white male):
[YOUTUBE]KQ-YjGmpO4Q[/YOUTUBE]
"It’s never, never, never, never, never OK to touch her without her consent."
- Joe Biden
[YOUTUBE]KQ-YjGmpO4Q[/YOUTUBE]
"It’s never, never, never, never, never OK to touch her without her consent."
- Joe Biden
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
I think it is safe to refer to this primary as a "Clown Car" now.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
What on earth does Biden think he is doing ? It is creepy and very weird.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
Even if you take all that into consideration, it's unprofessional at the very least. And Biden isn't from the South is he ?