Democrats 2020

[Harry Bosch]

The left is anti-capitalism. Like Marx.

That explains where the left is in US politics which is completely controlled by capitalists.

Does that surprise you? Americans like to own things. They like their SUV and big screen TV's. They don't like others dictating to them what they can own.

They only "like" it being dictated to them to own things. Americans are a long way from being free. We aren't permitted choices, only selections. Another example of obscene twisting of our language. Marketing is what it's called.

Again, I was more suggesting that when non-capitalists take over, the economy collapses which always results in less for the middle and working class.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Who is Elizabeth Warren again, and why is she heralded as a Eugene Debs or Samuel Gompers? What I'm hoping is for the candidates to energize different parts of the base, then synthesize them into a single base for a single candidate to fucking destroy the GOP candidate in 2020 as they should have been in 2016.

This early I don't know who the best choice for the Dems is. One thing I do know is that the campaign is just too long; anti-Pelosi ads are already airing here on CNN. Heard one this morning. My guess is one of the line of Republican attacks is to caricature Pelosi then use that to attack whomever runs for the Dems.

Oh goodness, ads already?! The only solution is moving from Florida. And yes, the two year process is absurd... but in the candidates defense, if they are to raise $1 billion in cash... you need a running start. 1 year prior to caucus and then 11 months after it.

We seriously need to move the primaries to August or September. One part of the nation a week.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The left is anti-capitalism. Like Marx.

That explains where the left is in US politics which is completely controlled by capitalists.

Does that surprise you? Americans like to own things. They like their SUV and big screen TV's. They don't like others dictating to them what they can own.

The far-left is anti-capitalism. The left can be pragmatic and understand that capitalism with substantial protections can work. Governments are generally a bunch of lawyers, not engineers, marketers, inventors, accountants.

Business must be allowed to drive the economy, but Government needs a decent sized hand to oversee the businesses.

 

[poster]

They only "like" it being dictated to them to own things. Americans are a long way from being free. We aren't permitted choices, only selections. Another example of obscene twisting of our language. Marketing is what it's called.

Again, I was more suggesting that when non-capitalists take over, the economy collapses which always results in less for the middle and working class.

A simplistic summary of the argument that neoliberals appear to unwittingly adhere to.

The only type of economy that collapses is a capitalistic economy. But that's the idea, isn't it? That neoliberals can only envision a capitalistic economy is the issue that non-capitalistic minded people have to deal with more so than economics itself. Americans have been conditioned to think only one way, in terms of black and white - capitalism=good - anything else=bad.

The problem with this argument is it contradictions and the way in which capitalism has "progressed". The "middle and working class" as you label it has lost all of their negotiating power through capitalism itself, not because of its absence. Capitalists have made the conscience choice of replacing human labor with robotic labor. Capitalism did that, not scocialism (or whatever non-capatilistic jargon you'd wish to employ). They took the money they made from years of human labor's blood, sweat and tears and used it against their descendants to put them out of work, all the while, making the false claim that unions were crippling their endeavors in making the world a better place. The world is not a better place today for anyone other than those few people who can afford it. "Better" in this context should be defined in terms of "equal" instead of "striving to be equal".

 

[poster]

The left is anti-capitalism. Like Marx.

That explains where the left is in US politics which is completely controlled by capitalists.

Does that surprise you? Americans like to own things. They like their SUV and big screen TV's. They don't like others dictating to them what they can own.

The far-left is anti-capitalism. The left can be pragmatic and understand that capitalism with substantial protections can work. Governments are generally a bunch of lawyers, not engineers, marketers, inventors, accountants.

Business must be allowed to drive the economy, but Government needs a decent sized hand to oversee the businesses.

Neoliberalism is not pragmatic, you've only been conditioned to think it is. FFS - just look at where we are. This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The far-left is anti-capitalism. The left can be pragmatic and understand that capitalism with substantial protections can work. Governments are generally a bunch of lawyers, not engineers, marketers, inventors, accountants.

Business must be allowed to drive the economy, but Government needs a decent sized hand to oversee the businesses.

Neoliberalism is not pragmatic, you've only been conditioned to think it is. FFS - just look at where we are.

In a position where we are climbing out from when unregulated markets crashed the economy. I said he needed regulated markets.

This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

What exactly is that addressing?

 

[Elixir]

Neoliberalism is not pragmatic, you've only been conditioned to think it is. FFS - just look at where we are. This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

Neoconism is neither pragmatic nor moral. Putin, Trump and Fox Nooz have conditioned you to think it is, and that there is something called Neoliberalism that is to blame for all ills.
Just look at where we are after 2 years of teabaggers' total control:
Government shut down, America no longer a player in geopolitics, markets are a mess and the economy teetering on the brink of recession/depression - all while an egomanical moron holds the country hostage to make us erect a pointless monument to his boundless stupidity.

 

[poster]

In a position where we are climbing out from when unregulated markets crashed the economy. I said he needed regulated markets.

This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

What exactly is that addressing?

It must have been some sort of premonition or something becasue it addresses your sentence above it.

Neoliberalism responses are very predictable.

 

[Elixir]

Neoliberalism responses are very predictable.

They still have a long way to go to compete with the utter vacuity of mindless neocons' demonizations of their "neolib" demon (which they can't define or identify).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In a position where we are climbing out from when unregulated markets crashed the economy. I said he needed regulated markets.

This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

What exactly is that addressing?

It must have been some sort of premonition or something becasue it addresses your sentence above it.

Neoliberalism responses are very predictable.

Nothing like using a label to be able to carry all the wait of an argument. Just say "neoliberalism" and then sit back and gloat. No need to explain what would work better. Granted, you aren't here to solve that issue. Just create dissent.

Pres. Clinton (D) signing off on Sen. Phil Gramm's (R) plan to deregulate derivatives trading and Greenspan's (C) see/hear no evil economic plan launched us in a path to the 2008 blow up. These things prove we need more oversight. It existed, it was removed because America has been told we need less Government, not more and they think that any more is overbearing. The propaganda worked. The economy crashed, more regulations were placed on banks, and the right-wing wants to remove those, not even 10 years pass the Great Recession.

 

[poster]

Neoliberalism is not pragmatic, you've only been conditioned to think it is. FFS - just look at where we are. This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

Neoconism is neither pragmatic nor moral. Putin, Trump and Fox Nooz have conditioned you to think it is, and that there is something called Neoliberalism that is to blame for all ills.
Just look at where we are after 2 years of teabaggers' total control:
Government shut down, America no longer a player in geopolitics, markets are a mess and the economy teetering on the brink of recession/depression - all while an egomanical moron holds the country hostage to make us erect a pointless monument to his boundless stupidity.

But it wasn't I who wanted to put a war hawk like Clinton in the president's chair that was occupied by a democratic war hawk before her. One in which many of the people on this site lavish with praise.

 

[Elixir]

But it wasn't I who wanted to put a war hawk like Clinton in the president's chair that was occupied by a democratic war hawk before her. One in which many of the people on this site lavish with praise.

It wasn't I who wanted to put an amoral orange moron in the Whitehouse to do Putin's bidding at every turn.
Wasn't fond of HRC, but she - and at least couple hundred million other Americans - would have made a better leader than that motherfucker.

 

[poster]

But it wasn't I who wanted to put a war hawk like Clinton in the president's chair that was occupied by a democratic war hawk before her. One in which many of the people on this site lavish with praise.

It wasn't I who wanted to put an amoral orange moron in the Whitehouse to do Putin's bidding at every turn.
Wasn't fond of HRC, but she - and at least couple hundred million other Americans - would have made a better leader than that motherfucker.

Being responsible for the atrocities that war causes is not amoral?

 

[Elixir]

But it wasn't I who wanted to put a war hawk like Clinton in the president's chair that was occupied by a democratic war hawk before her. One in which many of the people on this site lavish with praise.

It wasn't I who wanted to put an amoral orange moron in the Whitehouse to do Putin's bidding at every turn.
Wasn't fond of HRC, but she - and at least couple hundred million other Americans - would have made a better leader than that motherfucker.

Being responsible for the atrocities that war causes is not amoral?

Equivocate to your heart's content. Wake me up when any other President cow-tows to despots and methodically advances the agendas of Americas most dangerous adversaries.
NOBODY (else) does that. Not Nixon, not Billary, not either Bush, Reagan or Obama. Just CHEATO.
He is a traitor, plain and simple.

 

[J842P]

Neoliberalism is not pragmatic, you've only been conditioned to think it is. FFS - just look at where we are. This is not an issue that was done by republican and will be fixed by democrats. They've both has exclusive rights to power and we're still here.

Neoconism is neither pragmatic nor moral. Putin, Trump and Fox Nooz have conditioned you to think it is, and that there is something called Neoliberalism that is to blame for all ills.
Just look at where we are after 2 years of teabaggers' total control:
Government shut down, America no longer a player in geopolitics, markets are a mess and the economy teetering on the brink of recession/depression - all while an egomanical moron holds the country hostage to make us erect a pointless monument to his boundless stupidity.

Um, I think you are confused.

Neoliberalism is generally a term used used on the left to describe an ideology they oppose, not something used on Fox News, of all places. Neoconservativism is the same in the sense that it is a term use by the left, or by opponents on the right, against a specific faction of Republicans called the Neocons.

Neoliberalism describes a far-rightwing economic ideology, that is much broader than the more American-centric Neoconservative faction of American conservativism.

Also, Donald Trump/ Putin are definitely not neocons. The Neocons were some of the most ardent opponents of Trump/Trumpism, which is essentially know-nothing populism/nativism.

 

[Terrell]

Who is Elizabeth Warren again, and why is she heralded as a Eugene Debs or Samuel Gompers? What I'm hoping is for the candidates to energize different parts of the base, then synthesize them into a single base for a single candidate to fucking destroy the GOP candidate in 2020 as they should have been in 2016.

This early I don't know who the best choice for the Dems is. One thing I do know is that the campaign is just too long; anti-Pelosi ads are already airing here on CNN. Heard one this morning. My guess is one of the line of Republican attacks is to caricature Pelosi then use that to attack whomever runs for the Dems.

Oh goodness, ads already?! The only solution is moving from Florida. And yes, the two year process is absurd... but in the candidates defense, if they are to raise $1 billion in cash... you need a running start. 1 year prior to caucus and then 11 months after it.

We seriously need to move the primaries to August or September. One part of the nation a week.

Yeah. It would be nice if the only rivalry on Interstate 4 was UCF vs. USF. If only I-4 was (seen as) Blue instead of (seen as) Purple. Other parts of FL likely have fewer political ads. Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach tend Blue to heavily Blue. Much of the FL Panhandle is red, Leon County (Tallahassee) being a possible exception since FSU & FAMU are there.

It would be better if the political ads were fewer and less frequently negative.

 

[PyramidHead]

Neoliberalism is just market/state capitalism as practiced in the post-New Deal era by Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton, Obama, Blair, and Thatcher, among others. The reason we call it that is because it pays lip service to classical liberal values while actually defying them.

 

[J842P]

Neoliberalism is just market/state capitalism as practiced in the post-New Deal era by Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton, Obama, Blair, and Thatcher, among others. The reason we call it that is because it pays lip service to classical liberal values while actually defying them.

From an American POV, yes. But the archetypical American Neoliberal is Milton Friedman.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Neoliberalism is just market/state capitalism as practiced in the post-New Deal era by Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton, Obama, Blair, and Thatcher, among others. The reason we call it that is because it pays lip service to classical liberal values while actually defying them.

From an American POV, yes. But the archetypical American Neoliberal is Milton Friedman.

It's my understanding that "neo-liberalism" is simply free market competition. What successful country doesn't have a free market at it's core?

 

[poster]

Neoliberalism is just market/state capitalism as practiced in the post-New Deal era by Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton, Obama, Blair, and Thatcher, among others. The reason we call it that is because it pays lip service to classical liberal values while actually defying them.

From an American POV, yes. But the archetypical American Neoliberal is Milton Friedman.

It's my understanding that "neo-liberalism" is simply free market competition.

As PH points out quite concisely, it is not as benign as that.

Here's an example:
The military receives ~50% of all federal discretionary spending which goes mostly to private contractors and deprives other departments of much-needed funding for social welfare. That is neoliberalism, and any politician who votes to continue to fund the military at such an exorbatantly disproportionate rate at the expense of the people the government is supposed to help support is guilty of advancing neoliberal polices.

I hope that helps!

What successful country doesn't have a free market at its core?

I'd be interested in your definition of what "successful" is when considering the state of the environment, hunger, ongoing war, refugee migration, disproportionate incarceration (wholly and based on skin color - US), concentrated wealth, and the a blind-eyed attitude toward white-collar crime, just to mention a few. "Success" in this context does not mean that I and those I associate with have jobs or run small startups.

IOW - the Neanderthal occupied the planet for some 200,000 years and left it intact and thriving. We've been here for some 40,000 years and we're on the brink of environmental collapse. And we're the smart ones?

Anyone who stands to advocate for the conditions and systems that got us here is in need of special care.