laughing dog
Contributor
We clearly do not agree on what "rightly" means. But no one can rightly claim that anyone who supported Bernie and who vote for Trump is a progressive.
With that lead in, there is no point to read any further.
-
Features
Democrats 2020
- Thread starter lpetrich
- Start date
PyramidHead
Contributor
The Iraq war
The 1994 crime bill
Giving us Clarence Thomas
The bankruptcy bill
The Patriot Act
The Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act
Campaigning for and donating to Republican campaigns
The Defense of Marriage Act
No worse than Biden is a low bar, my dude
PyramidHead
Contributor
You call can try to make the point that there is some moral dimension to voting for one of these corrupt, dementia-addled, imperialist, corporate funded, conservative rapists over the other, but with each passing day you reveal yourselves to have no interest in morally scrutinizing your political leaders, as long as they fulfill the aesthetic and cultural requirements for the role and create the appearance of being competent shift managers of the Starbucks that is your idea of this country. You're giving up on the last vestige of anything you kind of believe in, scraping the barrel of your soul for some residue of principles or decency, but finding only the tut-tutting condescension of telling dying people they shouldn't be able to live if they can't afford it.
lpetrich
Contributor
For me, (ideal candidate) >> Biden >> Trump
Though I concede that that is not likely to help Biden very much.
For me, the ideal candidate would be someone with AOC's policy positions and moral character and Kamala Harris's age and experience.
Though I concede that that is not likely to help Biden very much.
For me, the ideal candidate would be someone with AOC's policy positions and moral character and Kamala Harris's age and experience.
blastula
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 9,652
- Gender
- Late for dinner
- Basic Beliefs
- Gnostic atheist
It's like saying Clinton would have been no different than Trump. Among a zillion other differences, Clinton would have taken pandemics seriously and she wouldn't be doing shit like this.
New Trump mileage standards to gut Obama climate effort - AP
For anyone who cares about climate, that should be enough of a difference.
New Trump mileage standards to gut Obama climate effort - AP
For anyone who cares about climate, that should be enough of a difference.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
I don't disagree. However, if you look at people on the far left, in particular those who operate at least sometimes outside the Democratic Party, there is a large focus on imperialism. And frankly, they are being rational in looking at that as a major thing to consider. You can see in Pyramid's post that he is discussing the Iraq war and the millions who were impacted by it, close to a million died as a result of it--being a factor in their death. When you rationally compare that to other considerations what can you compare this to? I mean, Democrats focus a lot on domestic politics and why so-and-so is better, but how do you rationally come up with a metric that involves #lives first, freedoms and entitlements second? Where is such a metric? I can tell you that the Green New Deal is a big deal because it's an existential threat and Joe isn't so big on it and in consideration of his imperial policies, he's no friend of peace. If you compare Trump versus Biden on these big issues that have to do with actual lives being lost in millions, Trump is actually toning imperialism down but terrible on the environment and Biden would want to increase imperialism but be good for the environment (not good enough to save millions though). So, where again is the rational metric to say how close or far apart they are?
laughing dog
Contributor
IMO, equating the Iraq war with imperialism is a mistake. We were not trying to control Iraq at the time. That does not mean the Iraq war was a good idea or well-grounded, but to say it was US imperialism is rhetorical overreach.
I think Biden gave the President too much credit at the time of the vote, but that does not make him an imperialist. Holding him responsible for the outcome of the Iraq war and its aftermath is like holding a car owner for responsible for climate change.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
All of the presidential aspirants voted for the war. Bush leveraged the post 911 mentality to manufacture consent.
Very much an imperialist move IMO. Our image precluded a WWII type annexation, but the Bush Free Marketeers had high hopes for some kind of utopia - until the Iraqis ruined everything.
Very much an imperialist move IMO. Our image precluded a WWII type annexation, but the Bush Free Marketeers had high hopes for some kind of utopia - until the Iraqis ruined everything.
Toni
Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2011
- Messages
- 19,785
- Basic Beliefs
- Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
I’m not certain that we really know much about AOC’s moral character but I do admire her intelligence and many of her positions.
The same with Kamala Harris, although she isn’t as progressive, which is a downside for me.
You know who we had with positions extremely similar to AOC and even more and broader and deeper experience than Harris?
Elizabeth Warren.
But nooooooooooo she wasn’t good enough so we’re stuck battling it out between old white guys.
It’s almost as if half the country is uncomfortable without some dick in the Oval Office, preferably old and white.
lpetrich
Contributor
Joe Biden age = 77, Bernie Sanders age = 78, Elizabeth Warren age = 70, Kamala Harris age = 55.
I like Elizabeth Warren also. In fact, earlier this year, I contributed to the campaigns of both BS and EW. I'm concerned about EW's age, though I don't find it as worrisome as BS's, or for that matter JB's.
I've seen rumors that the Democratic party leadership might want to replace JB with NY state governor Andrew Cuomo. He's 62 years old.
I like Elizabeth Warren also. In fact, earlier this year, I contributed to the campaigns of both BS and EW. I'm concerned about EW's age, though I don't find it as worrisome as BS's, or for that matter JB's.
I've seen rumors that the Democratic party leadership might want to replace JB with NY state governor Andrew Cuomo. He's 62 years old.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
And according to you, sharing it means I support him. So if you ever shared a something Trump said and reacted to it...
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Hey, that's the story I shared. Watch out, Don2 will accuse you of supporting the person who said that.
But it is a double "if".
First, the Democrats have to ditch Biden at the convention.
Second, they have to choose Cuomo.
As I said the first time I posted it, if both "if" statements come to pass, the Bernie supporters are going to explode with rage. Seeing the first "if", they would loudly declare who the "obvious" second choice is.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Well, you're not a democrat! Democrats also care about the supreme court, the environment, better access to health care, better access to college, lowering barriers, increasing minimum wage, Daca, and etc. Jesus Christ, I could have stopped at environment.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Really? I thought they favored government intervention in those instead.
laughing dog
Contributor
Seems pretty far-fetched unless somehow JB dies or withdrew right before the convention (assuming there is one).
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
More likely would be a VP offer.
Derec
Contributor
Biden already said he will pick a woman for running mate. So unless he becomes Andrea Cuomo ...
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
It’s still early yet in the race and Cuomo just recently entered the national spotlight due to his superior videos on the status of the Trump Virus. Plus Trump has responded to Cuomo upstaging him by endangering thousands of more lives through withholding aid for the Trump Virus until Cuomo and other governors suck Trump’s pathetic little orange cock, so he’s effectively making Cuomo a martyr figure.
Also, as you well know, like most deplorables, Trump is desperately looking for someone to put him out of his impotent misery and now he’s pointing at Cuomo. Since Cuomo is more than capable of the task, I’m sure the Biden camp is looking his way as well.
And, finally, the fact that you responded in the manner that you did is a good indicator that such a move is already feared and likely a topic of concern on various alt-right websites and the like.
angelo
Deleted
Cuomo is surely a huge step up as compared to creepy, senile Joe or a gawd forbid, the crazy Bern. If the Dems are serious about securing victory in November, they could do a lot worse than Cuomo, if it isn't too late to endorse him.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
But Angelo, don't you think that Biden will be better than sleazy, stupid as shit Trump?