Democrats should be fighting a class war and NOT a cutural war

[ZiprHead]

We had a Democrat congress during all this Ukraine spending and it would have been the perfect time for the liberal side of the Democrat party (aka "the squad") to have at least brought some kind of attention to the homeless. How many other bills do you see with spending attached on for non related stuff? It would have been the time for bringing federal resources towards the homeless. To provide visibility to how bad our own nation is at present.

But they did nothing at all. Did not even bring it up.

They didn't? Did you even check?

Bills to aid and house the homeless, would that be doing nothing too?
HR 9210
HR 7191

Or do they need to have put forth 25 bills to end homelessness?

Did you expect RVonse to check the Congressional Record?
If it wasn't reported by Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlsen it didn't happen.

I'm glad to see something was done because honestly I did not know anything was. That being said, the actual results on the ground certainly speak for themselves. The US is blowing all kinds of money serving the rest of the world while disabled Americans live in LA tents. All done under the Democrats watch. A horrible and embarrassing display of political governance.

There were no homeless under Trump??? How much of the homeless problem could have been relieved with the two trillion Trump gave to the rich? What is being spent in Ukraine is a fraction of that. How much homelessness could have been relieved if Republicans didn't completely block raises to the minimum wage? How much homelessness could have been relieved if Republicans didn't block funding for mental health programs? Many veterans are homeless yet Republicans block funding for them too.

You're jumping around like a spider on a hotplate to say "Democrats are bad, mmm-kay." Yet when your claims get researched we find the proposals you decry actually came from Republicans or the problems occur amongst Democrats and republicans alike. You're like the dim-bulb sitting at the end of the bar ranting about things he really doesn't know about. He just knows he hates the "other" and makes up shit to justify his hatred. The rest of the bar patrons just snicker behind his back and try to avoid actually having a conversation with him.

 

[Politesse]

20% of homeless persons in the US are under the age of 18.

40% of these are LGBTQ+ kids who have been kicked out of their homes.

This is another reason why a lot of people from out of state find themselves homeless, here. They flee a very bad situation elsewhere in the country, and indeed are much safer here than they would be in Missouri, in a lot of ways. But a kid without a family can't make rent on our market, so end up in a bad financial situation. They would be back in Missouri, too. But it is better to be homeless here than there.

You want to solve homelessness? I would say start with the incredibly obvious step of building more homes and regulating how they are sold to curb the orgy of economic exploitation that characterizes the housing market in the United States.

But if you must find a cultural rather than practical target: start with the cancer of hatred that festers in the "Right", that alienates and oppresses whole classes of people for no reason, setting neighbor against neighbor and family against family for no better reason than racist, sexist, or religious bravado.

California is being punished for "lifting our lamp beside the golden door", on a number of fronts simultaneously. We feed the rest of the nation, but are hated for hiring immigrant labor to do it. We give entire world its new technologies, but are damned for the supposedly "woke" character of the universities that keep tech afloat. We manage much of our military's west coast operations, but are mocked for the homeless vets struggling to get along in our cities. And we accept refugees from conservative states, only to be scorned for having poor and homeless folks; for the sheer, overwhelming scale of a social problem we are most certainly and damnably complicit in, but just as surely, did not by any means create.

 

[Swammerdami]

@ Politesse — I liked your entire post, but this statistic caught my eye:

40% of [homeless persons in the US under the age of 18] are LGBTQ+ kids who have been kicked out of their homes.

With all but two of my life's close friends and relatives being hetero, I think I've payed too little attention to the travails of the LGBTQ+. Your 40% statistic surprises me, and opens my eyes.

 

[Politesse]

@ Politesse — I liked your entire post, but this statistic caught my eye:

40% of [homeless persons in the US under the age of 18] are LGBTQ+ kids who have been kicked out of their homes.

With all but two of my life's close friends and relatives being hetero, I think I've payed too little attention to the travails of the LGBTQ+. Your 40% statistic surprises me, and opens my eyes.

Of course, statistics are always in flux, and always contested. But the youth shelter I volunteer at sometimes keeps its own figures, and they are actually a bit higher than the national average, with well more than half of their client base being LGBTQ youth. This may be partly self-selection, since kids who aren't gay could conceivably go to the other (conservative Christian run) shelter in town instead of ours. Still, though. The sheer numbers are horrifying. We're talking hundreds of kids a year in a city of less than 200,000, all in the same desperate and rather dangerous situation. They don't start out doing drugs or turning tricks, but a lot of them end up that way eventually. Makes me want to hug my mother every time I walk in there. She wasn't exactly "accepting" of my coming out, but I have reminders every week of how much worse things could have been.

 

[bilby]

In the first place the only way you can ensure that is to not have a property tax at all. Otherwise there will always be someone who may not be able to pay, (example the homeless).

No, you just need to not have property tax on primary residences.

Frankly, it's probably best not to tax anything other than inheritance (nobody deserves somebody else's earnings) and income (except perhaps excessive wealth, though that's likely best dealt with by very large and very progressive taxes on inheritances).

Taxes on such things as property, windows, and hearths are prone to abuse and are rarely equitable.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, I'm sure a new proposal that would end up throwing old folks out of their homes would be really popular.

California is the only state with such a law. Do we have demonstrably fewer homeless elderly people than Nevada or Arizona which have no such policy?

Nevada resident here--we have something similar although not quite as restrictive. It was put in when real estate was going crazy and there are some tax lovers who would like to see it gone but they don't seem to be getting much of anywhere.

I doubt there are many people anywhere (and certainly not in the USA) who love taxation as much as I do. But nevertheless, I think that property taxes should never be allowed to force someone from their primary residence.

Actually, I favor a different approach: Scrap the property tax limits but instead make it that property tax arrears can't cause the taking of owner-occupied property. It just gets attached to the property at a reasonable interest rate. Think of a reverse mortgage, except it comes from the state.

 

[bilby]

Yes, I'm sure a new proposal that would end up throwing old folks out of their homes would be really popular.

California is the only state with such a law. Do we have demonstrably fewer homeless elderly people than Nevada or Arizona which have no such policy?

Nevada resident here--we have something similar although not quite as restrictive. It was put in when real estate was going crazy and there are some tax lovers who would like to see it gone but they don't seem to be getting much of anywhere.

I doubt there are many people anywhere (and certainly not in the USA) who love taxation as much as I do. But nevertheless, I think that property taxes should never be allowed to force someone from their primary residence.

Actually, I favor a different approach: Scrap the property tax limits but instead make it that property tax arrears can't cause the taking of owner-occupied property. It just gets attached to the property at a reasonable interest rate. Think of a reverse mortgage, except it comes from the state.

Why tax property at all?

Income taxes are a tax on the citizens proportional to what they get out of society. If a person owns a bunch of real estate, then the income from that real estate automatically gets taxed along with all their other income. The proceeds of the sale of real estate will be subject to capital gains taxes; What other taxes are really needed? What makes a tax on property value reasonable for real estate, but not for other assets? Property taxes are a special case of wealth taxes; Progressive income taxes are generally a better option.

As far as I can see, local governments are funded this way solely because it's traditional. You might as well tax windows, hearths, bedrooms, or any of the other weird things that have been subject to tax in the past.

 

[Patooka]

We had a Democrat congress during all this Ukraine spending and it would have been the perfect time for the liberal side of the Democrat party (aka "the squad") to have at least brought some kind of attention to the homeless.

Threadmancy ahoy! As it turns out, Biden does have a plan to address the problem of homelessness in the US.

Biden eyes 25 percent reduction in homelessness in three years

The Biden administration on Monday released a government-wide plan aimed at cutting homelessness in the country by 25 percent by 2025. The plan, called All In, focuses on finding housing for people…

thehill.com

Here's the thing I find curious. I know Jimmy Dore is a right wing partisan hack who grifts on youtube. So I know he doesn't give a flying fuck about homelessness and is just lying his whorish arse off just to get clicks on youtube.

But I'm legitimately confused that RVonse didn't pick this initiative up before everyone else. I thought his concerns towards homeless people was genuine and not some partisan Q-tard bullshit. I mean, this initiative was announced last year in mid December which means it was definitely in the works when this thread was created. I don't know how this initiative, which involves the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the American Rescue Plan, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the White House and the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness and a whole bunch of state and local initiatives, slipped under RVonse's radar.

I guess it's worth repeating; it you only get your news from "alternative media" and hacks like Russel Brand and Jimmy Dore, you will always be mis-informed.

 

[southernhybrid]

Since we're all over the place, let me add two things.

I live in a small city that gives older adults real estate tax discounts. When you reach 65, you get one and then at 75, you get a bigger one. My city has done a lot for people my age. We have the largest, nicest, diverse etc. senior center that also serves lunch for a small price. Maybe that's partly why I don't want to move. It's ageist to think that older adults, most of who live on much smaller incomes than when we worked, along with any savings we may have accumulated, shouldn't be given some discounts. Most people will reach old age and most won't have as much money as they had hoped. You can always set income limits on these tax breaks. It was much easier being young, compared to being old. I know because I've been both. If I were to sell my home, where would I be forced to go?

The other thing is that I have no problem with real estate taxes although in some states and cities they really are unaffordable. These taxes are used to help pay for schools and other local infrastructure. People who rent are helping their landlords pay their real estate taxes, unless one really is homeless, we all contribute to real estate taxes. I agree that nobody, especially no older person who doesn't have the financial assets, should lose their home due to not being able to afford taxes. There should be ways to help them or even simply put a lien on the home so the heirs will have to pay any back taxes when the owner dies.

We're going to pay taxes one way or the other via sales, income, SS/M'care while we are employed, etc. Real estate taxes are simply used to help support things locally. Besides, these taxes aren't going to vanish, but they should at least be affordable. With my discount, my taxes are about 2K per year. My old age discount is about a few hundred dollars per year. They were only about 1500 prior to home prices sky rocketing. I think that the rate could be lowered when home prices rise substantially. My sister in NJ pays over 10K for a much smaller house that is appraised at a higher value due to it being in NJ, where the cost of living is very high. But, my late father paid no real estate taxes in NJ because his city or the state gave disabled veterans that tax break. That allowed my parents to age in place, which is what they wanted.