Democrats should be fighting a class war and NOT a cutural war

[RVonse]

From timestamp :20 to 2:40 is actual footage cut and pasted from all US media sources. We have now spent $100 billion on a Ukraine War which is 5 times more than what would have been needed to fix all the homelessness in the US. 40% of the homeless have jobs (meaning they are NOT drug addicts) and 18% are physically disabled. Of the homeless 24% have substance abuse which means an even smaller percent of those who might prefer being homeless. It is a lame BS excuse that everyone wants to be homeless. It should also be noted that this is all happening under Democrat leadership, until recently Democrats having the control of the excutive and legislative branches.

On twitter, a guy named Turncoat Don wants medicare for all, universal basic income, to fix poverty for all so that people of color are not poor either. But the Democrats are denouncing him as a Putin stooge and a white supremacist. These should be Democrat party values! And it is not half the population who are the enemy of the people, it is our own government.

 

[Elixir]

Myopia strikes deep on the right.
They have no clue about the effect of turning Ukraine, its grain production and its mineral resources over to a nuclear-armed despot. Apparently the thought is (assuming any thought at all) that it’s real far away and we won’t ever notice.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

From timestamp :20 to 2:40 is actual footage cut and pasted from all US media sources. We have now spent $100 billion on a Ukraine War which is 5 times more than what would have been needed to fix all the homelessness in the US. 40% of the homeless have jobs (meaning they are NOT drug addicts) and 18% are physically disabled. Of the homeless 24% have substance abuse which means an even smaller percent of those who might prefer being homeless. It is a lame BS excuse that everyone wants to be homeless. It should also be noted that this is all happening under Democrat leadership, until recently Democrats having the control of the excutive and legislative branches.

I wasn't aware this was an either or thing. Also, I wasn't aware there was an easy fix to homelessness.

On twitter, a guy named Turncoat Don wants medicare for all, universal basic income, to fix poverty for all so that people of color are not poor either. But the Democrats are denouncing him as a Putin stooge and a white supremacist.

Who? Also as a reminder, it was two Democrats (well, technically he was an Independent at that point due to be being voted out in the primary) and every Republican in the Senate that stopped the expansion of Medicare to 55+ early in the Obama Administration.

These should be Democrat party values!

They are.

And it is not half the population who are the enemy of the people, it is our own government.

The Government isn't the enemy. The general nature of existence is. Your solution was supporting Donald Trump, who'd let a homeless person on Mar-o-Lago property no sooner than he'd let someone cut his combover.

 

[steve_bank]

America ends when we descend into class warfare.

Historically class warfare and turmoil leads to authoritarianism.

Man the barricades! Breakout the Cuban cigars! Where is my Castro beret?

If yiu have a worbale flat system as I always say, I am all ears. You can rant and rage and posture but unless you have something that woeks better in practice with real people it is all hot air.

China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela are all examples of the result of 'class warfare'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

America ends when we descend into class warfare.

Historically class warfare and turmoil leads to authoritarianism.

It didn't in the 19th century US when there was class warfare as laborers sought to get decent pay and not die at work. Nor by the 1960s when OSHA was created and deaths/injuries at work plummeted further.

Yes, the last century has seen class warfare used as a left-wing populism ploy for authoritarianism, but ultimately, in the US, we aren't seen the Government taking over the oil fields any time soon. Instead we should be talking about a damn universal health care system that provides health care to all Americans.

 

[steve_bank]

I would not call it class warfare. The result of the stuggle was the legal right to unionize and bargain for benifits.

Carried to the extreme auto workers raised the benefits to an unsustainable level expecting cradle to grave support from the companies. Similar with Boeing.

Biden plays the middle. 'Hey I am not socialist, being rich is ok. Just pay your fair share.' His words.

Obama played both side, a pragmatist. I watched a speech Obama made where he was bordering on ranting against the wealthy. Then he courts the wealthy for support. Al Franken was a class warfare ranter.

What made the system work was upward mobility. I am an example. I grew up mostly in public housing with a mostly absent single parent father. I made my way to a career as an engineer. The Navy was my first step up.

Classes alwaus seem to eveole. It hapend in the Soviet and Chinese communist systems. The key is maintaining upward mobility not eliminating classes or class wrfare.


Tweek the system to reduce income inequality so people at the bottom have a reasonable piece of the pie.

If the income disparity continues to grow people will not want to artciapte.

It is already hapening. The term soft resignation has come into usage. It means doing the bare minimum you have to do at work and nothing more.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I would not call it class warfare. The result of the stuggle was the legal right to unionize and bargain for benifits.

I suppose it is "class warfare" only if you believe what they are demanding is unreasonable then? Because people were being shot at by police, national guards, the army in some of these protests. They went on strike despite fear of being black listed, or going home with no pay to feed their family. It wasn't pretty.

Biden plays the middle. 'Hey I am not socialist, being rich is ok. Just pay your fair share.' His words.

Obama played both side, a pragmatist. I watched a speech Obama made where he was bordering on ranting against the wealthy. Then he courts the wealthy for support. Al Franken was a class warfare ranter.

What made the system work was upward mobility. I am an example. I grew up mostly in public housing with a mostly absent single parent father. I made my way to a career as an engineer. The Navy was my first step up.

Classes alwaus seem to eveole. It hapend in the Soviet and Chinese communist systems. The key is maintaining upward mobility not eliminating classes or class wrfare.

So we are limited to the practicality based on your own personal experience then?

Tweek the system to reduce income inequality so people at the bottom have a reasonable piece of the pie.

If the income disparity continues to grow people will not want to artciapte.

It is already hapening. The term soft resignation has come into usage. It means doing the bare minimum you have to do at work and nothing more.

Well, this is a tad bit bullshit seeing how high productivity became in the US. If a worker isn't giving 125%, people are saying they are lazy... when that 100% they are giving now is 200% of what people were giving three decades ago.

 

[bilby]

Russian propaganda is at least now easily noticeable, by its almost always concluding that the US should stop supporting Ukraine.

Why any American would swallow this bullshit is harder to understand. But the Russians are still pretty good at propaganda, even though they seem to be pretty shit at everything else.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Russian propaganda is at least now easily noticeable, by its almost always concluding that the US should stop supporting Ukraine.

Why any American would swallow this bullshit is harder to understand. But the Russians are still pretty good at propaganda, even though they seem to be pretty shit at everything else.

The Cleveland Browns have underperformed most expectations this season. They have continually failed to rise to the occasion, repeatedly being incapable of adjusting on the fly. While there is no magic bullet to solving this problem, limiting the US's support of Ukraine is a good start.

 

[laughing dog]

The argument that if the US gov't didn't spend money and resources on _______ (you fill in the blank) that amount would be actually available for some other problem is naive because it ignores the political and social realities of the situation. Of course if we did not support Ukraine, the funds used to support Ukraine would be theoretically available to help the homeless or increase income support for those in need. However, since the US did not choose to do so before Russia invaded the Ukraine, there is no reason to think we would do it now. Furthermore, at the Federal level, Republicans have been in charge on an intermittent basis, and they have done jack shit about the issues RVonse raises. In fact, they have been the ones who are most likely preventing policies such as universal health care or ubi, not Democrats.

Finally, class warfare and cultural warfare are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The argument that if the US gov't didn't spend money and resources on _______ (you fill in the blank) that amount would be actually available for some other problem is naive because it ignores the political and social realities of the situation. Of course if we did not support Ukraine, the funds used to support Ukraine would be theoretically available to help the homeless or increase income support for those in need. However, since the US did not choose to do so before Russia invaded the Ukraine, there is no reason to think we would do it now. Furthermore, at the Federal level, Republicans have been in charge on an intermittent basis, and they have done jack shit about the issues RVonse raises. In fact, they have been the ones who are most likely preventing policies such as universal health care or ubi, not Democrats.

Finally, class warfare and cultural warfare are not mutually exclusive.

Conservative: We should be helping blacks because they are poor, not because they are black.
Liberal: Okay, let's do that then.
Conservative: But that'll make them welfare queens, we need to help them stand up and get jobs.
Liberal: Okay, let's do that then.
Conservative: Blacks are where they are because of cultural issues and we shouldn't have to do anything.
Liberal: But you just said...
Conservative: God bless Ameri...

 

[Politesse]

From timestamp :20 to 2:40 is actual footage cut and pasted from all US media sources. We have now spent $100 billion on a Ukraine War which is 5 times more than what would have been needed to fix all the homelessness in the US. 40% of the homeless have jobs (meaning they are NOT drug addicts) and 18% are physically disabled. Of the homeless 24% have substance abuse which means an even smaller percent of those who might prefer being homeless. It is a lame BS excuse that everyone wants to be homeless. It should also be noted that this is all happening under Democrat leadership, until recently Democrats having the control of the excutive and legislative branches.

On twitter, a guy named Turncoat Don wants medicare for all, universal basic income, to fix poverty for all so that people of color are not poor either. But the Democrats are denouncing him as a Putin stooge and a white supremacist. These should be Democrat party values! And it is not half the population who are the enemy of the people, it is our own government.

I mean yes, we should absolutely be eating the rich, not each other. Anyone not in the investor class who thinks they have a genuine friend in Washington is naive at best. But specifically blaming the Democrats is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Republicans oppose every form of social welfare and despise the homeless on principle. Democrats pretend to care, but are more than content to let Republicans winnow social programs down to a skinflint budget, or put so many "accountability" controls over them that the whole thing becomes a nightmarish bureaucratic tape-knot. If you are homeless in this country, you have no Party. No one is "on your side" except a tiny commumity of your immediate fellow-citizens, the 15 or 20 truly decent people in every county who actually give enough of a shit to do something substantial for their neighbors. But that is not a matter of good or bad political parties. All political parties are collections of wealthy oligarchs whose commitment to any particular political ideology or social project is transitory and very, very cynical.

 

[Gospel]

On the homeless front we should look to our neighbors in Canada for their leadership on what not to do when making it rain on the homeless.

Did Billions in Spending Make a Dent in Homelessness? Canada Doesn’t Know.

An auditor general’s report found that multibillion-dollar federal housing programs were not being tracked to see whether they actually reduced homelessness.

www.nytimes.com

Apparently they have no clue what effects 4.5 billion loonies had on homelessness. They could have just given any homeless person their government recognizes $1000 a month and it likely would have been better spent.

 

[RVonse]

From timestamp :20 to 2:40 is actual footage cut and pasted from all US media sources. We have now spent $100 billion on a Ukraine War which is 5 times more than what would have been needed to fix all the homelessness in the US. 40% of the homeless have jobs (meaning they are NOT drug addicts) and 18% are physically disabled. Of the homeless 24% have substance abuse which means an even smaller percent of those who might prefer being homeless. It is a lame BS excuse that everyone wants to be homeless. It should also be noted that this is all happening under Democrat leadership, until recently Democrats having the control of the excutive and legislative branches.

On twitter, a guy named Turncoat Don wants medicare for all, universal basic income, to fix poverty for all so that people of color are not poor either. But the Democrats are denouncing him as a Putin stooge and a white supremacist. These should be Democrat party values! And it is not half the population who are the enemy of the people, it is our own government.

I mean yes, we should absolutely be eating the rich, not each other. Anyone not in the investor class who thinks they have a genuine friend in Washington is naive at best. But specifically blaming the Democrats is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Republicans oppose every form of social welfare and despise the homeless on principle. Democrats pretend to care, but are more than content to let Republicans winnow social programs down to a skinflint budget, or put so many "accountability" controls over them that the whole thing becomes a nightmarish bureaucratic tape-knot. If you are homeless in this country, you have no Party. No one is "on your side" except a tiny commumity of your immediate fellow-citizens, the 15 or 20 truly decent people in every county who actually give enough of a shit to do something substantial for their neighbors. But that is not a matter of good or bad political parties. All political parties are collections of wealthy oligarchs whose commitment to any particular political ideology or social project is transitory and very, very cynical.

The difference in my mind is that the Democrats are supposed to be the party of helping out the poor. Whereas the Republicans have always said charity should be done by private parties. Laughing Dog made the comment above this would never come out of defense funds......but why couldn't have it? AOC and her sqaud could have at least made the suggestion in what was a Democratic led congress (Pelosi) for helping the poor and homeless. But instead they chose to make race and sex differences their priority.

You don't have to tell me the Republicans dont do shit. But at least they don't go around pretending they are knights on white horses.

 

[Patooka]

You don't have to tell me the Republicans dont do shit. But at least they don't go around pretending they are knights on white horses

Has anyone ever explained to you the meaning of the word "preferable"? I've never heard anyone say Democrats are Knights on White Horses.

Also fuck Jimmy Dore. A thin skinned grifter who couldn't make money championing on the left so he did a hand brake turn towards the right. There's a million dishonest cunts like him around.

 

[Politesse]

You don't have to tell me the Republicans dont do shit. But at least they don't go around pretending they are knights on white horses.

This does not endear them to me as much as you seem to think it should. Ours is not a world of ideal realities, but I'll take the man who promises me 10 dollars and gives me three, over the thief who just takes fifteen and pretends he just did me a favor.

 

[Patooka]

We have now spent $100 billion on a Ukraine War

This is also complete horseshit. The reality requires a little bit of basic comprehension but the key points are this:

1) Congress has allowed the Biden Administration to spend approx $68 billion total with regards to Ukraine. Most of that hasn't even been spent yet as this graph shows:

Show

And that's just an estimate. As anyone who understands government knows (obviously this excludes Jimmy fucking Dore), budgets are subject to revision. And it's entirely possible some of the 2023 spending will be push back to 2024 and beyond because:

2) That total figure is not military spending. It also includes "U.S. government operations and domestic costs related to Ukraine, which covers the increased expenses to government agencies for operations like moving embassy personnel and prosecuting war criminals. It also includes $2 billion for support to energy companies, particularly the nuclear industry, to offset higher supplier costs", and "incentives for mining of rare earths". This sort of stuff falls under the purview of the U.S. Agency for International Development, happens all the fucking time and is not related to the current war in Ukraine.

So basically, Jimmy Dore is lying because he has taken all the authorised and proposed (still waiting approval) spending up until 2030 for Ukraine, lied about it being purely military spending and then lied saying all this money has already been spent in 2022. He does this type of shit all the time. And when he is called out about it, he throws a temper tantrum. Seriously, fuck the guy.

 

[laughing dog]

From timestamp :20 to 2:40 is actual footage cut and pasted from all US media sources. We have now spent $100 billion on a Ukraine War which is 5 times more than what would have been needed to fix all the homelessness in the US. 40% of the homeless have jobs (meaning they are NOT drug addicts) and 18% are physically disabled. Of the homeless 24% have substance abuse which means an even smaller percent of those who might prefer being homeless. It is a lame BS excuse that everyone wants to be homeless. It should also be noted that this is all happening under Democrat leadership, until recently Democrats having the control of the excutive and legislative branches.

On twitter, a guy named Turncoat Don wants medicare for all, universal basic income, to fix poverty for all so that people of color are not poor either. But the Democrats are denouncing him as a Putin stooge and a white supremacist. These should be Democrat party values! And it is not half the population who are the enemy of the people, it is our own government.

I mean yes, we should absolutely be eating the rich, not each other. Anyone not in the investor class who thinks they have a genuine friend in Washington is naive at best. But specifically blaming the Democrats is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Republicans oppose every form of social welfare and despise the homeless on principle. Democrats pretend to care, but are more than content to let Republicans winnow social programs down to a skinflint budget, or put so many "accountability" controls over them that the whole thing becomes a nightmarish bureaucratic tape-knot. If you are homeless in this country, you have no Party. No one is "on your side" except a tiny commumity of your immediate fellow-citizens, the 15 or 20 truly decent people in every county who actually give enough of a shit to do something substantial for their neighbors. But that is not a matter of good or bad political parties. All political parties are collections of wealthy oligarchs whose commitment to any particular political ideology or social project is transitory and very, very cynical.

The difference in my mind is that the Democrats are supposed to be the party of helping out the poor. Whereas the Republicans have always said charity should be done by private parties. Laughing Dog made the comment above this would never come out of defense funds......but why couldn't have it?

Um, because there was no plan to do so before Russia invaded the Ukraine. Before the Ukrainian conflict there was nothing stopping Congress from doing what you say should be done (except Republican obstructionism in the Senate).

Why do you swallow the unmitigated horseshit that these rightwing "pundits" shovel? Politics is the art of compromise which means change will be slow, especially when both sides are pretty much unwilling to compromise because they see "compromise" as giving their opponents a victory as opposed to helping the US population.

 

[RVonse]

Um, because there was no plan to do so before Russia invaded the Ukraine. Before the Ukrainian conflict there was nothing stopping Congress from doing what you say should be done (except Republican obstructionism in the Senate).

The current house budget ostensibly would have been their reason. The fact that we don't tax enough to cover what government spends each year.

But then somehow, someway we spend (or plan to spend) 5 times the amount that could fix the homeless problem. All in the name of defense. How (as a citizen of the US) is my life endangered by NOT spending this money in Urkraine? If anything, I have read how my life might be endangered (by nukes) since they have entered into this conflict. And then while this is happening the US has physically disabled camps who are homeless living in skid row California. What kind of country does not help their physically disabled people?!! Nearly 20% of the population in skid row is disabled and we should all be embarrased about this. I think we deserve to know why the Democratic party of compassion was so silent giving all this money away to Ukraine when the need was so great right here in the US.

Indeed, even China has a better plan to house their citizens than the US. We could use one of their high rise ghost towns right in the middle of skid row right now. At least people would have a roof over their heads.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Um, because there was no plan to do so before Russia invaded the Ukraine. Before the Ukrainian conflict there was nothing stopping Congress from doing what you say should be done (except Republican obstructionism in the Senate).

The current house budget ostensibly would have been their reason. The fact that we don't tax enough to cover what government spends each year.

But then somehow, someway we spend (or plan to spend) 5 times the amount that could fix the homeless problem. All in the name of defense. How (as a citizen of the US) is my life endangered by NOT spending this money in Urkraine? If anything, I have read how my life might be endangered (by nukes) since they have entered into this conflict. And then while this is happening the US has physically disabled camps who are homeless living in skid row California. What kind of country does not help their physically disabled people?!!

All of them?

Nearly 20% of the population in skid row is disabled. I think we deserve to know why the Democratic party of compassion was so silent giving all this money away to Ukraine when the need was so great right here in the US.

I think we need to understand why the GOP is getting a pass here. So many on the street are mentally ill and are on the streets in main part due to Reagan closing off the hospitals needed for those people. Now that is a legacy of the GOP... but no. We need to read about how the Democrats aren't doing enough to address ills in our society the GOP is completely ignoring.

And instead, we hear you, inexplicably complaining about Ukraine. A nation that was invaded as a stepping stone. No, instead of trying to deal with that, you want to Neville Chamberlin it, assuming the Russia going into the other Sat states won't happen, Putin will be happy with the Sudetenlands.

The GOP want to cut the major lifelines remaining in the US, Social Security and Medicare. They tried to scam the nation into a privatization of a portion of Social Security! But no, you want to complain about the Democrats not doing enough.