DeSantis signs bill requiring FL students, professors to register political views with state

[bleubird]

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/PDF

Warning!
12 pages, I only perused part of it.

 

[Bomb#20]

The law requires the schools to survey. The survey will be meaningless without people answering the questions. The Governor is threatening funding over this. Nothing in the law indicates students can be expelled, but the schools are being compelled to make students answer the questions.

That's ridiculous. The school will ask its students, say, "Which political party do you align with?" The survey results will be something like "53% Democrat, 28% Republican, 6% Other, 13% Decline to state". The school will submit that to the Board of Education. The Board of Education will file it somewhere and a bureaucrat will make a note that the school complied with the law.

Why would the state pass legislation that is both unpopular and pointless?

Welcome to representative democracy.

They must have at least some inkling that this law will achieve something; What do you think they expect it to achieve?

What's going on in the legislators' brains isn't really my department; I'm just pointing out the absurdity of one hysterical claim about its consequences. But if I had to guess, I imagine they expect the law to achieve a talking point that will let them assure their base that they're taking the problem of ideological capture of the public education system by the progressives seriously and combatting it, so as to not leave the topic for primary challengers to make hay over.

It seems that either this is a really bad law because it outright enables fascism; Or it’s a really bad law because it slightly weakens the protections against future fascism, while having no counterbalancing benefits; Or, just possibly, it’s a really bad law because it has no effects whatsoever apart from an increase in pointless bureaucracy.

Whichever way, it’s a really bad law.

I'd bet on Door Number 3.

 

[Bomb#20]

The proper answer to "which political party do you align with?" is "that's none of your goddamned business, you useless sack of meat."

Nobody - not students, not administrators, not teachers, not staff - should feel the least bit compelled to answer a survey on personal political leanings. The state of Florida has no business even asking the question of these folks. Full stop.

Correctamundo!

And the point is that the state does not accept this answer. No response means no funding.

Why on earth would the state not accept this answer? From the point of view of a posturing politician, "Decline to state" is the ideal answer. The more of those the better. He can claim the decline-to-states are anywhere in the viewpoint space he needs them to be to bolster whatever argument he's making.

There's little difference from any normal person's perspective between expelling all the students or closing the school.

But there's a huge difference between "If you don't answer we'll expel you" and "If they don't like the survey results they'll expel you all". Any normal person wouldn't take the latter threat seriously.

 

[Jarhyn]

The proper answer to "which political party do you align with?" is "that's none of your goddamned business, you useless sack of meat."

Nobody - not students, not administrators, not teachers, not staff - should feel the least bit compelled to answer a survey on personal political leanings. The state of Florida has no business even asking the question of these folks. Full stop.

Correctamundo!

And the point is that the state does not accept this answer. No response means no funding.

Why on earth would the state not accept this answer? From the point of view of a posturing politician, "Decline to state" is the ideal answer. The more of those the better. He can claim the decline-to-states are anywhere in the viewpoint space he needs them to be to bolster whatever argument he's making.

There's little difference from any normal person's perspective between expelling all the students or closing the school.

But there's a huge difference between "If you don't answer we'll expel you" and "If they don't like the survey results they'll expel you all". Any normal person wouldn't take the latter threat seriously.

Which is why a lot of "normal people" will be very "shocked" when their school closes.

DeSantis made it plainly clear that his intent was to shut down institutions that don't parrot his line.

 

[TV and credit cards]

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...eedom-and-viewpoint-diversity-employee-survey

Not quite anonymous is it? And assuming they know what university a batch of surveys are coming from, answers to select questions can be compared to actual staff demographics to determine the truthfulness of the answers.

I’m sure people who parse these surveys out for a living can determine much much more.

 

[Gospel]

DeSantis made it plainly clear that his intent was to shut down institutions that don't parrot his line.

I thought this was made obvious after Mickey Mouse's testimony.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The proper answer to "which political party do you align with?" is "that's none of your goddamned business, you useless sack of meat."

Nobody - not students, not administrators, not teachers, not staff - should feel the least bit compelled to answer a survey on personal political leanings. The state of Florida has no business even asking the question of these folks. Full stop.

Correctamundo!

And the point is that the state does not accept this answer. No response means no funding.

Why on earth would the state not accept this answer?

This question can only be asked from a person who thinks this survey is an honest attempt to gauge campus opinion.

From the point of view of a posturing politician, "Decline to state" is the ideal answer. The more of those the better. He can claim the decline-to-states are anywhere in the viewpoint space he needs them to be to bolster whatever argument he's making.

Any result can be twisted by the right people. Hence they are fishing for data to manipulate.

 

[ZiprHead]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

The “intellectual freedom” surveys recently distributed at Florida’s public colleges and universities have drawn harsh criticism for trying to gauge whether politics seeps into classrooms.

But the questions asked of roughly 1 million students, faculty and other employees were on the way to being even more controversial, court documents show.

According to an early draft of the survey, state officials proposed a series of pointed, personal and politically charged questions. They initially wanted respondents to say how strongly they agreed with statements like “I believe that through hard work, everyone can succeed in American society,” “I believe that racial discrimination is no longer a problem in America” and “I believe undocumented immigrants should be denied access to public education.”

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity. Among the categories they offered for survey participants to check: “female/woman,” “transgender female/woman,” “historically black protestant,” “evangelic protestant” and “mainline protestant.”

While the draft was later modified to be more general, it has emerged as a piece of evidence in a lawsuit that is challenging the annual surveys, which are required under a law passed last year by the Legislature. The suit was filed by the state faculty union, five professors and three students who argue that the new law purports to achieve “intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity” in higher education but is having the opposite effect by chilling speech.

 

[Bomb#20]

And the point is that the state does not accept this answer. No response means no funding.

Why on earth would the state not accept this answer?

This question can only be asked from a person who thinks this survey is an honest attempt to gauge campus opinion.

From the point of view of a posturing politician, "Decline to state" is the ideal answer. The more of those the better. He can claim the decline-to-states are anywhere in the viewpoint space he needs them to be to bolster whatever argument he's making.

Does that bit you just quoted back to me right after you made your claim about me sound like it's from a person who thinks this survey is an honest attempt to gauge campus opinion?

Any result can be twisted by the right people. Hence they are fishing for data to manipulate.

And a survey with a percentage of decline-to-states in the responses is perfectly manipulable data to have fished out.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...eedom-and-viewpoint-diversity-employee-survey

"You are free to not answer any question or withdraw from the survey at any time."

But perhaps Mr. DeSantis has not learned the first lesson of requiring people to register their political views with the state: do not tell them they don't have to answer.

 

[Playball40]

There is no indication in the bill to suggest that answering the state's questions will be compulsory.

Yes there is. Namely in the levying of funding decisions on the basis of response rates.

This is a very passive-aggressive way to force the institutions themselves to drive out high responses through compulsory collection. Non-submission is essentially akin to the school closing.

We can already see the effect the model of the law will have on schools and it is, de-facto, a threat to either respond comprehensively or be shut down.

This is a "requirement" buried between the lines of the bill, but we can all see it so take that "but it doesn't outright say" <expletive deleted> and pound sand with it.

So your theory is that students who leave a survey question blank will be expelled? You're in la-la land. And your theory is that when the expelled students inevitably sue, the courts will rule in favor of the schools that expelled them over it? You're in the la-la land on the far side of regular la-la land.

Wait, I know how you can prove you're right: more scatology. That will make your case for you.

Uh....Florida. I think its less about student and more about getting rid of left leaning professors. Most do not have/receive tenure.

 

[Toni]

There is no indication in the bill to suggest that answering the state's questions will be compulsory.

Yes there is. Namely in the levying of funding decisions on the basis of response rates.

This is a very passive-aggressive way to force the institutions themselves to drive out high responses through compulsory collection. Non-submission is essentially akin to the school closing.

We can already see the effect the model of the law will have on schools and it is, de-facto, a threat to either respond comprehensively or be shut down.

This is a "requirement" buried between the lines of the bill, but we can all see it so take that "but it doesn't outright say" <expletive deleted> and pound sand with it.

So your theory is that students who leave a survey question blank will be expelled? You're in la-la land. And your theory is that when the expelled students inevitably sue, the courts will rule in favor of the schools that expelled them over it? You're in the la-la land on the far side of regular la-la land.

Wait, I know how you can prove you're right: more scatology. That will make your case for you.

Uh....Florida. I think its less about student and more about getting rid of left leaning professors. Most do not have/receive tenure.

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

There is a general tendency for people to be less conservative as they achieve more education.

 

[southernhybrid]

The entire thing is Orwellian imo. It's so "Big brother is watching you".

 

[Bomb#20]

So your theory is that students who leave a survey question blank will be expelled? You're in la-la land. And your theory is that when the expelled students inevitably sue, the courts will rule in favor of the schools that expelled them over it? You're in the la-la land on the far side of regular la-la land.

Uh....Florida. I think its less about student and more about getting rid of left leaning professors. Most do not have/receive tenure.

Could be. So are you proposing that professors who leave a question blank on a survey that right up at the top says "You are free to not answer any question" will be fired for it?

 

[Elixir]

The measure, which goes into effect July 1, does not specify what will be done with the survey results. But DeSantis and Sen. Ray Rodrigues, the sponsor of the bill, suggested on Tuesday that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.

Slippery slope? More like a cliff. I like how diversity is incredibly important when it means more people that share their views.

People should mock and ignore this guy at their own peril. This guy is a competent Trump fascist, and is among the leading candidates for the US Presidency. This type of program isn't even Red Flag territory. This is Authoritarianism. The idea that a college campus needs people to have relatively equal counts on opinions is ridiculous. This is Moore-Coulter on truth.

Will there be suits filed by wiccans and Satanists claiming under-representation?
Do they have enough Seminole Indians?

 

[Politesse]

Could be. So are you proposing that professors who leave a question blank on a survey that right up at the top says "You are free to not answer any question" will be fired for it?

Harassed, at least, and targeted over ensuing semesters of staff changes. What would you consider to be the intended effect of this legislation, if not creating an avenue for the culling of leftist professors?

 

[Elixir]

Could be. So are you proposing that professors who leave a question blank on a survey that right up at the top says "You are free to not answer any question" will be fired for it?

Harassed, at least, and targeted over ensuing semesters of staff changes. What would you consider to be the intended effect of this legislation, if not creating an avenue for the culling of leftist professors?

I think everyone here knows what the Goobernor’s intent is with this. The open question is what the actual effect will be.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This is a nothingburger. Conservatives never use data to paint the world with a different reality.

 

[laughing dog]

Could be. So are you proposing that professors who leave a question blank on a survey that right up at the top says "You are free to not answer any question" will be fired for it?

Harassed, at least, and targeted over ensuing semesters of staff changes. What would you consider to be the intended effect of this legislation, if not creating an avenue for the culling of leftist professors?

Don't forget the chilling effect on potential lecture and research topics that ideologues like DeSantis either fear or don't understand.

Remember, this is a governor who went after Disney over a disagreement.

Really, it takes someone whose head is firmly in the sands of ignorance to not get what is going on.

 

[Bomb#20]

Could be. So are you proposing that professors who leave a question blank on a survey that right up at the top says "You are free to not answer any question" will be fired for it?

Harassed, at least, and targeted over ensuing semesters of staff changes.

Um, in this fantasy scenario of yours, who is doing this harassing and targeting? Who is the officious bureaucrat or co-opted colleague communicating to a privacy-oriented professor how he'd better think twice about keeping his political views to himself again, if knows what's good for him, on the next survey? The next survey that says "This survey is anonymous. ... Respondents' identities will never be published or compromised in any way."? How is a hypothetical would-be harasser supposed to apply pressure to the professor without giving away the secret that the survey isn't anonymous? Who's behind this conspiracy, Darth Jar-Jar?

What would you consider to be the intended effect of this legislation, if not creating an avenue for the culling of leftist professors?

I already said upthread: it appears to be intended to make DeSantis et al look good to their base.

 

[Politesse]

Um, in this fantasy scenario of yours, who is doing this harassing and targeting?

The administrative bodies of Florida colleges and universities. That's not a stretch at all, I don't see why you think that is. I guess you're arguing that they would feel upward pressure from their faculty not to be assholes, but there is no such pressure. In terms of the administrative hierarchy, faculty input ranks barely above student input in terms of importance. If the governor and the state board of education want to purge the ranks of the faculty, there's nothing stopping them. In Florida, you don't even have to provide a reason to "fail to renew the contract" of part-time faculty.

I already said upthread: it appears to be intended to make DeSantis et al look good to their base.

Why would it do that? What does the base want? What do they want to see happen in the schools?