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Detroit killer convicted

Dearborn Heights is 15 miles from Detroit. The city of Dearborn is between Dearborn Heights and Detroit.
Wrong. A portion of West Warren St. forms part of the boundary between Dearborn Heights and Detroit. They are adjacent to each other. River Ridge Park, which is just within Detoit city limits is only 1/4 mile from the house.

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Well, she was also female.

That makes this a twofer.

Exactly. A twofer of preferentially treated group memberships (female and black) and automatically presumed victim status.

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You go right on ahead defending racist murderers Derek:
You have zero evidence that he is a racist.

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You're not allowed to use lethal force to defend your home from having its door knocked and its porch stood upon. You can do it to defend yourself or another person from danger, and in many places you can do it to stop a crime. But you're not allowed to kill someone just standing there on your porch no matter how angry you are at seeing them there.

She wasn't just standing there. She was banging so hard she ended up injuring her hands (impervious to pain due to ridiculously high quantities of alcohol that were still in her system three hours later) and damaging the screen door.
 
If he felt so threatened by someone knocking on his door, why open said door, removing a barrier between himself & someone he claims to be threatening? IMO that doesn't make sense.
Maybe not but when a person is woken up suddenly by a perceived attack on his home I think there should be some leeway as far as expecting completely rational behavior.

She knocked on the door at zero dark thirty, but I don't see that as a threat, an annoyance yes, but in and of itself, I'm not convinced. Had the door caved in, and she entered, then I'd agree, but that didn't happen. If she'd asked him to come out, and he refused, I'd understand that, but still I wouldn't think that shooting her was justified. I don't think that the "missing time" really matters as IMO it doesn't really say anything as to whether or not she would have been reasonably perceived as a threat.
Well her banging did damage the screen door in addition to injuring her hands. That was much more than knocking, even forceful knocking.
The missing time is relevant in that it completely invalidates the prosecution (and media) narrative that she was just a damsel in distress that was looking for help after an accident. Since that is so obviously not true (not only because of the time gap but because she refused help at the scene) the question is raised, what did she do after she wandered off the scene of the accident and what was her purpose in going to Wafer's house in the first place, because we know it was not for help. Did she seek to rob him? Did she have an accomplice who fled as soon as the shot was fired? The police and prosecutors were so hellbent on "getting" Wafer that they ignored all these questions. Evidence from the house remained uncollected for weeks. That alone should have sunk the case.

All that said, had he been convicted of manslaughter and given time served and probation it would be one thing. But 2nd degree murder and up to life in prison is completely over the top and does not fit what he did at all.
 
Wrong decision. The young woman had 0.22% BAC and was high as well. In addition she banged so hard against his door that she incurred injury to her hands in the process. That shows she didn't merely knock to ask for help. The "she merely asked for help" canard is further implausible because of the 3 hour gap between her accident and her death. Prosecution didn't even offer an explanation to what she was doing during this time.

And last but not least Detroit is one of the most dangerous cities in the US. Yet now this poor man is convicted for murder merely for defending his home. I hope he appeals and prevails. The judge excluded evidence from Renisha's cell phone that show her thuggishness and is reminiscent of similar evidence in the Tray-Von case.

Thuggishness? Did the homeowner know there was thuggishness on her phone when he shot her? When we defend our actions, we don't get to use information we didn't have at the time. We don't actually know what what the woman did or said, but we do know what happened to her after her killer opened a perfectly functioning door in order to have a clear shot at her. That in itself is pretty thuggish.
 
From what?
From a crazy drunk chick who was banging on his door so hard she damaged it and who was there for some unknown reason (but definitely not to seek help).

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Thuggishness? Did the homeowner know there was thuggishness on her phone when he shot her? When we defend our actions, we don't get to use information we didn't have at the time. We don't actually know what what the woman did or said, but we do know what happened to her after her killer opened a perfectly functioning door in order to have a clear shot at her. That in itself is pretty thuggish.

It would go to her motives to being there in the first place (my guess attempted robbery to get more drug/booze money). Which is all the more relevant since we know that the prosecution/media narrative of a damsel in distress is bullshit.

Again, to all the St. Renisha fans:
- if she was "seeking help" why did she refuse help at the scene and failing that, why didn't she walk home?
- where was she in the three hours between her DUI accident and her death?
- what was her motive for coming to Wafer's porch that night?
 
From what?
From a crazy drunk chick who was banging on his door so hard she damaged them and who was there for some unknown reason (but definitely not to seek help).
This killer had no idea whether she was there to get help or not. In fact, neither do you. But in most civilized places, you don't get to execute someone because they are banging on your door or even damaging your door. She was unarmed. He did not call the police. Interestingly, even in "one of the most dangerous cities" a jury of his peers found him guilty.
 
It would go to her motives to being there in the first place.
How would her motives make his response appropriate? I mean, unless he's SpiderMan, then his defense would be 'my spidey-sense tingled and i knew she meant to rob me.'
Which still isn't justification to shoot someone if they're still locked outside of your house...
 
Maybe not but when a person is woken up suddenly by a perceived attack on his home I think there should be some leeway as far as rational behavior.
She knocked on the door at zero dark thirty, but I don't see that as a threat, an annoyance yes, but in and of itself, I'm not convinced. Had the door caved in, and she entered, then I'd agree, but that didn't happen. If she'd asked him to come out, and he refused, I'd understand that, but still I wouldn't think that shooting her was justified. I don't think that the "missing time" really matters as IMO it doesn't really say anything as to whether or not she would have been reasonably perceived as a threat.
Well her banging did damage the screen door in addition to injuring her hands. That was much more than knocking, even forceful knocking.
The missing time is relevant in that it completely invalidates the prosecution (and media) narrative that she was just a damsel in distress that was looking for help after an accident. Since that is so obviously not true (not only because of the time gap but because she refused help at the scene) the question is raised, what did she do after she wandered off the scene of the accident and what was her purpose in going to Wafer's house in the first place, because we know it was not for help. Did she seek to rob him? Did she have an accomplice who fled as soon as the shot was fired? The police and prosecutors were so hellbent on "getting" Wafer that they ignored all these questions. Evidence from the house remained uncollected for weeks. That alone should have sunk the case.

All that said, had he been convicted of manslaughter and given time served and probation it would be one thing. But 2nd degree murder and up to life in prison is completely over the top and does not fit what he did at all.

I don't agree that being awoken in the middle of the night gives leeway for irrational behavior, especially where there is a weapon involved. I think it's the responsibility of the gun owner/user to think things through before one acts, and when you've got a barrier between yourself and the person you think is threatening, it makes no sense whatsoever to remove said barrier. Not buying it.

It's a screen door, If I went and banged on my neighbor's screen door it could be damaged, especially if I was klutzy and hit the screen itself. Now if she's broken a solid wood, or steel door, you'd have an argument, but not for a screen door. How damaged exactly was the door, and where? The screen being ripped, would be damage to the door.

Her refusing help at the scene doesn't make her a threat either. It also doesn't mean that she was thinking clearly. We have no way of knowing that her motive was robbery, only that she knocked very hard on a door. If you're knocking late at night, it makes sense that you might knock harder, given that people may be asleep. In addition her being drunk or high, may have caused her to misjudge how hard she was knocking. The potential of her having an accomplice, to me, is more reason to not open the door. Had she asked to be let in, or for him to come out, it would be reason to refuse to do either. That's why I said I'd understand if he refused to come out for her. Same can be said, that I'd understand if he refused to let her in. Either way, I'm not convinced that deadly force was justified. His contradictory statement, that Toni mentioned earlier, (accidental discharge to the Police, self-defense to the courts) also makes his story suspect. Those things aren't consistent. Now if you could show evidence that this guy was a total klutz and that the shotgun would fire due to fumbling it, then I may change my mind.

Time served for manslaughter, I'm not okay with. Some prison time is in order IMO, regardless of the killer's ethnic group, or sex.
 
No I did not. ThinkProgress is a far left blog and thus not very trustworthy. Do you have any more reliable and not as blatantly biased source?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/detroit-area-porch-shooter-convicted-murder-24887014

He first suggested to police that it was an accident but later admitted to intentionally pulling the trigger.
His initial suggestion conveying that his weapon discharged accidentally as he was aiming at her, after making the decision to open his door versus calling 911. Keeping in mind that the allegedly threatening him party was OUTSIDE his home, not inside his home. Meaning there was no tangible threat to his person as he was inside his home.

From his remark "I didn't go out looking for this.", he actually literally went out of his home (and again versus calling 911) and found "this" meaning a young Black female on his patio/porch. He then made the decision to engage his weapon, aimed at her head and shot her. Aiming at her head certainly implies a lethal shot.

Mind you that at no time, did he ask her any questions. At no time did he intend to use his gun as a deterrent rather he used it while aiming at her head with the intent to kill her.

I have no idea how anyone would attempt to justify the above. I find it extremely creepy that anyone would as it reveals once more abidance to "shoot first and ask questions later". And in this case, considering he aimed at her head, the "shooting first" implied a lethal shooting. Meaning the termination of another human being's existence who was not given any chance, any opportunity to explain why she was banging on his door.

Oh of course... Stupid me.... Why would you bother reading the article to get any of the facts when you've already made up your mind on the basis of the genders and race of the involved parties.
No, I actually followed the case. I know about her 0.22% BAC (three hours after the accident and even longer since she stopped drinking which means her peak BAC would have been even much higher).
I know about the three missing hours for which the prosecution offered no explanation.
Actually, after her accident she left the scene of the accident rather than waiting for the ambulance on its way, attempting to go/walk home. Considering the probability of a head trauma added to her being intoxicated, her being disoriented and wandering about while uncovering that she could not contact by phone anyone who would either giver he directions or pick her up to take her home is a totally acceptable explanation for that delay. I noticed that while you deployed great efforts to place yourself in the shoes of the party you designated as "the poor man", you made no efforts to place yourself in her shoes.


I know about the injuries to her hands which came from violently banging against Wafer's screen doors. I know about damage to the screen door from this violent banging. I know about the general shoddiness of the police investigation that alone should have sunk this case in front of any impartial jury.
As if you are an expert in criminal investigations and you have any direct observation and resulting insights as to how the investigating law enforcement personnel conducted their investigation.

It appears that having "injuries to her hands" coming from "violently banging against Wafer's screen door" and the damage to the screen door should have convinced investigators that Wafer was justified in opening his door (versus calling 911), placing HIMSELF in the position to be face to face with the alleged threat and then make the decision to aim at her head and shoot and that without asking any questions. Is that your contention in regard to your remark of the "shoddiness of the police investigation"?



Whatever this was, it was not a case of a frightened young woman who merely wanted to ask for help after an accident as the prosecution and left wing sources claim. For one, there were people at the scene who offered to help her, but she wandered off. Then there is the three hour gap and the fact that she could have walked home in much shorter time - she had no reason to bang on doors of strangers.
Was it a case of an individual seeking to attack and harm people? The answer is : no. There was NO reason for the police to believe or assume for one moment that her intentions were to break in, attack or harm anyone in that neighborhood. If you wish to build a case that it was, please provide evidence that the victim's violent banging on Wafer's screen door was an intent to break in, attack or harm anyone in that neighborhood.

Reality check : Wafer is the party who had NO reason to open his door, load his gun, aim at her head and shoot. And that without asking any questions. Once more "shoot and kill first then ask questions".


Why she decided to go to Wafer's house and bang on his door we will probably never know. But we do know it was not simply to "ask for help". Maybe she wanted to rob him to get money for more drugs/alcohol. Did she have an accomplice as the defense suggested? Three hours would be enough to contact one or more of her homies and hatch a robbery plan. More background on her and her associations would have been helpful but alas the judge disallowed that evidence.
Oh the irony of such wild speculations coming from someone who harps so heavily on proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt. And of course, the usual tactic of making the victim the culprit while launching in wild and unsupported speculations.

I think it is you who formed your opinion solely on race and gender.
I think, Derec, your history of speculating on the intentions of Black folks (history shaped on FRDB especially in the discussions revolving around the Zimmerman/Martin trial) points to your penchant towards fueling from negative stereotyping targeting Black individuals. As a result, you engaged in the wild and unsupported speculations above intended to portray the victim as a potential criminal who deserved to be terminated by "the poor man".
 
From a crazy drunk chick who was banging on his door so hard she damaged it and who was there for some unknown reason (but definitely not to seek help).

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Thuggishness? Did the homeowner know there was thuggishness on her phone when he shot her? When we defend our actions, we don't get to use information we didn't have at the time. We don't actually know what what the woman did or said, but we do know what happened to her after her killer opened a perfectly functioning door in order to have a clear shot at her. That in itself is pretty thuggish.

It would go to her motives to being there in the first place (my guess attempted robbery to get more drug/booze money). Which is all the more relevant since we know that the prosecution/media narrative of a damsel in distress is bullshit.

Again, to all the St. Renisha fans:
- if she was "seeking help" why did she refuse help at the scene and failing that, why didn't she walk home?
- where was she in the three hours between her DUI accident and her death?
- what was her motive for coming to Wafer's porch that night?

Your guess is she was trying to rob him? Did our killer guess the same as you and shoot a woman for what he thought she could do, if he unlocked the door and let her into his house?

If the killer had not shot her, we could ask her all these questions and clear up the whole thing. As it is, we have to rely on the testimony of a man who has every reason in the world to lie about what happened and probably doesn't remember what really happened anyway. By this point in time he has managed to construct a scenario which justifies his taking of a human life and he is sticking to his story.
 
If the killer had not shot her, we could ask her all these questions and clear up the whole thing. As it is, we have to rely on the testimony of a man who has every reason in the world to lie about what happened and probably doesn't remember what really happened anyway. By this point in time he has managed to construct a scenario which justifies his taking of a human life and he is sticking to his story.
Except his scenario does not justify his taking of a human life in the eyes of those who arrested him, charged him, convicted him and many other sentient human beings.

Wafer's own testimony on this is telling:
Wafer said in his testimony that he shot the gun right after opening the door and did not get a good look at McBride. He said he could not detect her gender or race; and did not question her in any way before pulling the trigger.
(from OP linked article). The man had no idea what was going on at all, other than someone was knocking loudly on his door.
 
She wasn't just standing there. She was banging so hard she ended up injuring her hands (impervious to pain due to ridiculously high quantities of alcohol that were still in her system three hours later) and damaging the screen door.
Damaged the screen door, not the main door? So the person inside the house wasn't in imminent danger, and could have called the cops showing an intent to deal with this is in a non-lethal way. Then if things got too hairy, then he could claim self-defense if she broke in and appeared to be dangerous.
 
Yep. I actually did have a guy high on acid force his way through my front door at about 3am. I opened the door (but forgot to set the chain) because it was -20F and he was panicking wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I struggled with him and threw him out the door. I called the police because I was concerned about his safety and mental condition. It was later that I learned that he was at a party and dropped some acid to try it. Just a dumb college kid.

Imagine the lives I would have ruined if I had shot and killed him, let alone the cleaning bill for my couch.
 
Wafer's own testimony on this is telling:
Wafer said in his testimony that he shot the gun right after opening the door and did not get a good look at McBride. He said he could not detect her gender or race; and did not question her in any way before pulling the trigger.
(from OP linked article). The man had no idea what was going on at all, other than someone was knocking loudly on his door.

That is so sad and tragic. He didn't even look enough to tell gender or race (and hence obviously not age, threat and certainly not intent, either). He shot at a human being and he didn't even know if that person was man, woman, black,white, young, old... nothing. Nothing. He knew NOTHING about the thing he was aiming his gun at. How utterly tragic. How wrong that anyone anywhere thinks this is normal, human, sane. Just knock-knock - BLAM! You die for that!
 
I was going to start a "countdown until Derec shows up and declares this a miscarriage of justice" comment, but it appears I'm too late.


Apparently this decision was wrong because the jury was comprised of darkies and womenfolk.

No. It is wrong, clearly, because she was black and poor and female, and everyone knows that black people are predisposed to crime because of the interaction of their jungle monkey person genes, and the dark skinned curse they got when their ancestor saw Noah's naughty bits. And because she wasn't barefoot and in a kitchen. And because we all know that when someone injects the marijuanas, they get the reefer madness. And why was she driving? Everyone knows women are terrible drivers, so the accident was entirely her fault too.
 
What a sad world we live in where the life of a person is counted as less than the value of a screen door.
 
Wafer's own testimony on this is telling:
(from OP linked article). The man had no idea what was going on at all, other than someone was knocking loudly on his door.

That is so sad and tragic. He didn't even look enough to tell gender or race (and hence obviously not age, threat and certainly not intent, either). He shot at a human being and he didn't even know if that person was man, woman, black,white, young, old... nothing. Nothing. He knew NOTHING about the thing he was aiming his gun at. How utterly tragic. How wrong that anyone anywhere thinks this is normal, human, sane. Just knock-knock - BLAM! You die for that!
He actually put himself at risk by opening the door, which apparently the woman was not able to damage because she was too busy damaging the screen door.
 
What a sad world we live in where the life of a person is counted as less than the value of a screen door.

What? You obviously didn't pay attention. Junkie ghetto jungle women aren't people. Obviously
 
If the killer had not shot her, we could ask her all these questions and clear up the whole thing. As it is, we have to rely on the testimony of a man who has every reason in the world to lie about what happened and probably doesn't remember what really happened anyway. By this point in time he has managed to construct a scenario which justifies his taking of a human life and he is sticking to his story.
Except his scenario does not justify his taking of a human life in the eyes of those who arrested him, charged him, convicted him and many other sentient human beings.

It's very common for a person's memory of a traumatic event to disagree with reality.

The famous "Subway Vigilante," Bernard Goetz, shot four men on the subway, thinking he was about to be robbed. It was nine days later when he turned himself in and made a complete statement. In that time, his mind constructed a scenario in which he was a cold calculating Charles Bronson figure, determined to shoot his way out of a desperate situation. He described his thought process and planning, deciding who to shoot first and the following sequence. Although he took full responsibility and claimed self defense, his story was bogus. He did shoot all four men, but the physical evidence contradicted all his claims of methodical planning and self control. He simply fired in panic and the only reason he managed to wound all four was the close range.

Similarly, Wafer's statement after the shooting was, "“I wasn’t gonna cower in my house.” This was after he testified she had only knocked on the door and he never heard her voice.

The purpose of "Stand your ground" laws is to relieve a shooter of responsibility for their own actions, but substituting reasonable judgment with emotional response. Reality has no validity in the process.
 
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