Do we ALL have a "right to die"?

[Unknown Soldier]

I look forward to death. Maybe not the dying part, which might suck, but the being dead part. I've already been dead, and consequently I know it's a dawdle. It's the easiest thing, being dead. It's so easy everyone can do it.

I didn't tap my foot and keep checking my watch as those billions of years crept by before I was conceived. The building of the pyramids might have been interesting as hell for those who were alive at the time, but I didn't notice. Same for WWI. Bloody big mess, but it didn't bother me in the slightest while it was happening.

I look forward to not existing. Since existing mostly sucks. And I don't have any sweet "going back to nature" feelings. Fuck nature. Nature is stupid and hostile. And there's only one relief from it, one escape.

Hmmm. Well, you're still with us. I think that says something about how you feel about life. Can you explain why you feel the way you do about living? I can guarantee you that you're better off alive.

And please--don't let the pro-death comments on this thread convince you otherwise.

 

[pood]

I look forward to death. Maybe not the dying part, which might suck, but the being dead part. I've already been dead, and consequently I know it's a dawdle. It's the easiest thing, being dead. It's so easy everyone can do it.

I didn't tap my foot and keep checking my watch as those billions of years crept by before I was conceived. The building of the pyramids might have been interesting as hell for those who were alive at the time, but I didn't notice. Same for WWI. Bloody big mess, but it didn't bother me in the slightest while it was happening.

I look forward to not existing. Since existing mostly sucks. And I don't have any sweet "going back to nature" feelings. Fuck nature. Nature is stupid and hostile. And there's only one relief from it, one escape.

Hmmm. Well, you're still with us. I think that says something about how you feel about life. Can you explain why you feel the way you do about living? I can guarantee you that you're better off alive.

And please--don't let the pro-death comments on this thread convince you otherwise.

There are no ”pro-death” comments on this thread, nor any “death lovers.” These repeated slurs of yours, despite repeated corrections, are disgusting.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

And please--don't let the pro-death comments on this thread convince you otherwise.

There are no ”pro-death” comments on this thread, nor any “death lovers.” These repeated slurs of yours, despite repeated corrections, are disgusting.

Here's just a small sample to prove you wrong:

This is a very bad rationaliztion designed to deny a terminally ill, suffering person a right to die...

I, personally, think we should all have the right to die

Very few people opt for assisted suicide, but I've read that knowing they have that option helps a lot of people cope.

You have an opinion. Opinions are like arseholes; Everyone has one, and they're often full of shit.

I have a right to die at the time and in the circumstances of my choosing, as does everyone else; And if you stand in the way of my right to my own fucking life, I will drive right on over you.

Who the hell do you think you are, making pontifical pronouncements about the lives of complete strangers?
[Removed]

The truth speaks for itself.

That last one is especially bad.

 

[abaddon]

....

The truth speaks for itself.

No, you're interpreting and not doing it truthfully.

The "right to die" that people have advocated is no more "pro-death" than advocating women's right to choose regarding abortion. The result in a death isn't the point, so to mis-characterize "the right to die" as "pro-death" is to misrepresent the stance.

 

[bilby]

The truth speaks for itself.

Indeed it does. So you needn't add your own distorted commentary. You're not fooling anyone.

 

[bilby]

I don't want to die; But I do want the right to die should I at some future time change my mind.

It's the difference between not wanting to leave the house today, and being under house arrest.

I am not "pro-going for a stroll" or a "getting fresh air lover" if, despite choosing to slob on the couch watching TV today, I nevertheless object to you locking me in and refusing to ever let me out.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

....

The truth speaks for itself.

No, you're interpreting and not doing it truthfully.

The "right to die" that people have advocated is no more "pro-death" than advocating women's right to choose regarding abortion. The result in a death isn't the point, so to mis-characterize "the right to die" as "pro-death" is to misrepresent the stance.

But the last time I checked dying leads to death.

Anyway, then, how about this one:

I look forward to death. Maybe not the dying part, which might suck, but the being dead part.

I want to save this person's life. How about you?

Here are two great quotations you should read carefully:

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Buddha

In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

 

[Shadowy Man]

....

The truth speaks for itself.

No, you're interpreting and not doing it truthfully.

The "right to die" that people have advocated is no more "pro-death" than advocating women's right to choose regarding abortion. The result in a death isn't the point, so to mis-characterize "the right to die" as "pro-death" is to misrepresent the stance.

I agree he has mischaracterized my position. I also believe people have a right to own a gun but I am not pro-gun. I’m sorry the intellectual nuance has eluded him.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

Here's what was actually said:

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves.

Let's take it step by step.

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals...

Ted Bundy, as an individual, had this right.

...top (sic) make their own choices...

Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder.

for themselves.

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

This seems like bad logic or misinterpretation to me.

The problem seems to begin at the point where you write "Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder."

Murder is person A making a decision that includes personal choice of the murderer and disallowing the victim (person B) to make their own choice to live.

Continuing...

the "for themselves" piece is also along the same lines, person A is deciding for person B to end person B's life.

Therefore, the instance described of Ted Bundy making a choice to end someone else's life is not in the set of allowing individuals to make their own choices for themselves.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

Here's what was actually said:

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves.

Let's take it step by step.

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals...

Ted Bundy, as an individual, had this right.

...top (sic) make their own choices...

Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder.

for themselves.

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

This seems like bad logic or misinterpretation to me.

Actually, the "bad logic" you mention is not my poor logic but Iostone's statement which I formatted in red above. (More on this later).

The problem seems to begin at the point where you write "Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder."

Yes, and that follows logically from what Iostone said as I have already explained.

Murder is person A making a decision that includes personal choice of the murderer and disallowing the victim (person B) to make their own choice to live.

I disagree with your definition of murder here, and so do courts of law. If you deliberately kill a person even at that person's request, then you're still guilty of murder.

Continuing...

the "for themselves" piece is also along the same lines, person A is deciding for person B to end person B's life.

The words "for themselves" is a bit ambiguous because it doesn't spell out who "themselves" are. However, based on the context of those words in the sentence, it most likely refers to the "individuals" making choices.

Therefore, the instance described of Ted Bundy making a choice to end someone else's life is not in the set of allowing individuals to make their own choices for themselves.

But your conclusion here contradicts Bundy being one of those individuals making their own choices.

Anyway, the statement
"Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves"
is self-defeating. What choices one individual makes can conflict with the choices another individual makes. So we obviously have no complete freedom to make choices, and that includes choices to kill and be killed.

The attempt to rationalize suicide as a free choice is then proved false.

 

[ZiprHead]

“Death fundamentalists” — pathetic.

Invalid logic? From someone who mutilated Lostone’s words to say they gave support to Ted Bundy?

Here's what was actually said:

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals top make their own choices, for themselves.

Let's take it step by step.

Most people here have expressed support for the right of individuals...

Ted Bundy, as an individual, had this right.

...top (sic) make their own choices...

Bundy's right was then to make his own choices. Those choices included murder.

for themselves.

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

So I've just proved that the claims that I misquoted anybody are flat-out false. It is I who has been misquoted, and that proof is in post #358. Of course, I know better than to believe that any death lover will admit that he lied, but it sure feels good to be factually and morally right.

This is an unbelievably stupid interpretation.

 

[Rhea]

Anyway, then, how about this one:

I look forward to death. Maybe not the dying part, which might suck, but the being dead part.

I want to save this person's life. How about you?

You remain misguided. And are also insulting the relationship that all of us have and have had with WAB for almost 20 years.

You are a newcomer and have no respect for that twenty years of relationship. Don’t use him as a cudgel in your crusade. That is cruel and unwarranted.

WAB is a valued member of our community, and we know full well that he has very difficult periods. DURING WHICH we have been here for him because he is a great member of our community whom we do not want to lose. As he has been there for others of us who leaned on his compassion when we needed it. And he knows that we are here for him, and that we care and very much want him to live. And we know that he is here for us.

Be very careful to not cause harm by stomping into a situation that you do not understand. There is a long history of community and support here that you are mocking.

 

[abaddon]

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

So I've just proved that the claims that I misquoted anybody are flat-out false. It is I who has been misquoted, and that proof is in post #358. Of course, I know better than to believe that any death lover will admit that he lied, but it sure feels good to be factually and morally right.

This is an unbelievably stupid interpretation.

All the more-so because lostone has clarified what he meant and this user rejects that other people get to say what they mean.

If the context isn't enough to sort the meaning, then the clarification is actually the final word on the matter.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

And of course, Bundy's choice to murder was for himself.

So I've just proved that the claims that I misquoted anybody are flat-out false. It is I who has been misquoted, and that proof is in post #358. Of course, I know better than to believe that any death lover will admit that he lied, but it sure feels good to be factually and morally right.

This is an unbelievably stupid interpretation.

All the more-so because lostone has clarified what he meant and this user rejects that other people get to say what they mean.

I'm not going by what Iostone means but by what he has posted. I'm demonstrating that his choice of words is a clumsy attempt to rationalize suicide because it states what is clearly false: We have no right to make any choice we want. If you don't believe me, then just go ahead and try doing whatever you choose to do. Let us all know how you make out.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This is an unbelievably stupid interpretation.

You must have been up all night thinking up this argument.

 

[Rhea]

There is a difference between doing things TO OTHERS and doing things TO YOURSELF.
One is not a right. One is.

This has been made crystal clear. UnkSol’s use of one for the other, as if they were identical, in order to bolster his argument is not rational or logical.

 

[abaddon]

So, I conclude from this discussion that we ALL have the right to die.
It doesn't mean people must use it, just as I don't have to use my right to own a gun to actually own a gun.
It doesn't mean people get to kill other people, just as my right to pursue happiness for myself doesn't mean I get to take anyone else's happiness from them.

And, to address the cause that @Unknown Soldier abandoned to fight against other people's rights, there should definitely be strong protections for the rights of the disabled. Including not having their right to life (and their right to die as they'd choose for themselves) taken from them.

 

[IIDB Staff]

This thread is locked while the mod staff deals with an unhealthy derail.