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Do you think we are losing our democracy before our very eyes today?

braces_for_impact

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Recently, I've read a short but excellent little book by Timothy Snyder entitled On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century.

It seems to me that people have been predicting, or lamenting, the loss of democracy in the U.S. for some time now. Often, I've found this to hyperbole, or so I used to think.

It's common throughout history that people living during their time period to think that they are living in a particularly historic or special time, or "interesting times" as the purported Chinese curse goes. As of late it feels like perhaps the ancient curse is prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes.

There is a lot in the realm of relatively current events that have convinced me we are currently on the road away from our own democracy. I don't think this is inevitable, but currently I see no signs of slowing down on this dangerous highway. I think I really started to ruminate over this question in the wake of the Supreme Court's Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision. Saying that restricting money is equal to curtailing free speech in our democratic process struck me as about uniquely Un-American as you could get for a Supreme Court decision.

Currently of course, we have the rise of Donald Trump and his administration. Between Trump's love of dictators and strongmen, his visceral hatred of a free press, and his seemingly willingness to toss our freedoms into the wastebasket if it contradicts his reckless and incompetent agenda, many people besides myself are feeling nervous about our checks and balances withstanding the onslaught from his administration. Also of concern is his base - who seem willing to sacrifice their own freedoms if only to see that agenda enacted, and as quickly as possible.

A source of even more worry for me, is the current state of our political parties. Specifically the Republican party. The Republicans at this moment hold an unprecedented amount of power in our government. They hold almost all the levers of our Republic. They currently hold 32 state legislatures. They hold both branches of congress, and of course as of late the Executive branch. The Trump administration is obviously grossly incompetent. Donald Trump is blatantly ignorant of our constitution, how our rights are derived, and the scope of his power. Even more concerning, he lacks any intellectual curiosity to explore these topics and learn some of the answers to those very important questions. His administration is bogged down in investigations involving a foreign power having undue and illegal influence on our democratic process - the very bedrock of our freedom. Even if no collusion by Trump's campaign is involved, the Republicans have shown very little interest in ascertaining exactly what happened, and taking steps to ensure it does not happen again, simply because they currently enjoy their current state of affairs with themselves in charge. Drunk with power is an understatement. The "Grand Ol' Party" has reached this pinnacle by suppressing the voting rights of others, and by gerrymandering districts in order to win elections. Thus, we have a party with all this power and influence that didn't get there by having better ideas, by connecting better with the grass roots, or by enacting policies that are popular with their fellow citizens. Even now, they debate health care policy that will affect almost everyone in our country in total secret, not just from the democrats, not just from the public, even from most of their own party! They intend to spring this upon us all and shove it through the congress. No rigorous debate, no fact checking, no listening to what the public that helped vote them into their positions has to say. A small handful of men deciding the fate of over 320 million people. Does that sound like democracy to you? How does a party that did not earn their position and passes public policy deeply unpopular with their constituents expect to stay in power? Obviously not with democratic principles, but with dirty tricks that got them "elected" in the first place. Otherwise, what public servant in their right mind would go against the wishes of the vast number of their voters?

Earlier I mentioned the book I read recently. There was an excerpt in it which was incredibly jarring to me. It was from a leading German Jewish newspaper of the time. It's dated Feb. 2nd, 1933.

We do not subscribe to the view that Herr Hitler and his friends,
now finally in possession of the power they have desired for so long, will
enact the proposals circulating in the Angriff or the Völkischer Beobachter
newspapers; they will not suddenly divest German Jews of their constitutional
rights, lock them away in race ghettos, or subject them to the
avaricious and murderous impulses of the mob. They not only cannot do
this because many other crucial factors hold their powers in check, ranging
from the Reich president to some of the political parties affiliated with
them, but they also clearly do not want to go this route, for when one
acts as a European world power, the whole atmosphere is more conducive
to ethical reflection upon one’s better self than to revisiting one’s earlier
oppositional role: operating as a European world power means that one
seeks an enduring place in the harmonious exchange of peoples of culture.

Such was the view of many reasonable people in 1933. The simply could not see it coming.

We are not any better than the people of 1933. We are not exceptional. We cannot assume that it won't happen here - that it cannot happen here.

What say you?
 
Recently, I've read a short but excellent little book by Timothy Snyder entitled On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century.

It seems to me that people have been predicting, or lamenting, the loss of democracy in the U.S. for some time now. Often, I've found this to hyperbole, or so I used to think.

It's common throughout history that people living during their time period to think that they are living in a particularly historic or special time, or "interesting times" as the purported Chinese curse goes. As of late it feels like perhaps the ancient curse is prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes.

There is a lot in the realm of relatively current events that have convinced me we are currently on the road away from our own democracy. I don't think this is inevitable, but currently I see no signs of slowing down on this dangerous highway. I think I really started to ruminate over this question in the wake of the Supreme Court's Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision. Saying that restricting money is equal to curtailing free speech in our democratic process struck me as about uniquely Un-American as you could get for a Supreme Court decision.

Currently of course, we have the rise of Donald Trump and his administration. Between Trump's love of dictators and strongmen, his visceral hatred of a free press, and his seemingly willingness to toss our freedoms into the wastebasket if it contradicts his reckless and incompetent agenda, many people besides myself are feeling nervous about our checks and balances withstanding the onslaught from his administration. Also of concern is his base - who seem willing to sacrifice their own freedoms if only to see that agenda enacted, and as quickly as possible.

A source of even more worry for me, is the current state of our political parties. Specifically the Republican party. The Republicans at this moment hold an unprecedented amount of power in our government. They hold almost all the levers of our Republic. They currently hold 32 state legislatures. They hold both branches of congress, and of course as of late the Executive branch. The Trump administration is obviously grossly incompetent. Donald Trump is blatantly ignorant of our constitution, how our rights are derived, and the scope of his power. Even more concerning, he lacks any intellectual curiosity to explore these topics and learn some of the answers to those very important questions. His administration is bogged down in investigations involving a foreign power having undue and illegal influence on our democratic process - the very bedrock of our freedom. Even if no collusion by Trump's campaign is involved, the Republicans have shown very little interest in ascertaining exactly what happened, and taking steps to ensure it does not happen again, simply because they currently enjoy their current state of affairs with themselves in charge. Drunk with power is an understatement. The "Grand Ol' Party" has reached this pinnacle by suppressing the voting rights of others, and by gerrymandering districts in order to win elections. Thus, we have a party with all this power and influence that didn't get there by having better ideas, by connecting better with the grass roots, or by enacting policies that are popular with their fellow citizens. Even now, they debate health care policy that will affect almost everyone in our country in total secret, not just from the democrats, not just from the public, even from most of their own party! They intend to spring this upon us all and shove it through the congress. No rigorous debate, no fact checking, no listening to what the public that helped vote them into their positions has to say. A small handful of men deciding the fate of over 320 million people. Does that sound like democracy to you? How does a party that did not earn their position and passes public policy deeply unpopular with their constituents expect to stay in power? Obviously not with democratic principles, but with dirty tricks that got them "elected" in the first place. Otherwise, what public servant in their right mind would go against the wishes of the vast number of their voters?

Earlier I mentioned the book I read recently. There was an excerpt in it which was incredibly jarring to me. It was from a leading German Jewish newspaper of the time. It's dated Feb. 2nd, 1933.

We do not subscribe to the view that Herr Hitler and his friends,
now finally in possession of the power they have desired for so long, will
enact the proposals circulating in the Angriff or the Völkischer Beobachter
newspapers; they will not suddenly divest German Jews of their constitutional
rights, lock them away in race ghettos, or subject them to the
avaricious and murderous impulses of the mob. They not only cannot do
this because many other crucial factors hold their powers in check, ranging
from the Reich president to some of the political parties affiliated with
them, but they also clearly do not want to go this route, for when one
acts as a European world power, the whole atmosphere is more conducive
to ethical reflection upon one’s better self than to revisiting one’s earlier
oppositional role: operating as a European world power means that one
seeks an enduring place in the harmonious exchange of peoples of culture.

Such was the view of many reasonable people in 1933. The simply could not see it coming.

We are not any better than the people of 1933. We are not exceptional. We cannot assume that it won't happen here - that it cannot happen here.

What say you?

I'm optimistic. But worried. We are currently ruled by a minority party. The party control every single branch of government: federal and most state. They currently have no opposition. It will mostly likely not change in two years due to gerrymandering. We have a party that is scared to death right now. I could easily see a large terrorist act that could cause Trump to declare martial law and suspend the rights that we do have.
 
We are not any better than the people of 1933. We are not exceptional. We cannot assume that it won't happen here - that it cannot happen here.

What say you?
It's easy to see why people are frightened about someone as obviously dangerous as Donald Trump, and well, George W Bush was a brain damaged alcoholic, so it's hard to expect much from him.

However why were so many people gushing about Barrack Obama? He paved the way for Trump but has been worshipped by Democrats.

Slouching Towards Nuremberg?


......as the British anthropologist Mary Douglas shows in her book Purity and Danger, or Norman Cohn demonstrates in The Pursuit of the Millennium, if the war goes on long enough, inevitably the enemy is also seen to be a fifth column, i.e. within the walls of the body politic itself. They become Huguenots or Marrano Jews or heretics of whatever stripe, and as in the case of Goya’s famous painting, Saturn Devouring His Son, the country begins to eat itself alive. Everybody becomes an enemy; no one is safe any longer. And so I believe that I, and you, really do have reason to worry.
 
It's done for.

The thing that drives the collapse of democracy into totalitarianism is economic disparity. If it gets big enough, the majority of people won't actually know how to fix it, so they will use their votes to fuck everything up until either their lives return to the way they used to be, or they tear every fucking thing down and make everyone else as miserable as they are. The whole time this is going on, one or more demagogues will tell them they have the answer to fix everything, and the fix will almost certainly involve getting rid of some minority group instead of anything that actually helps.

Right now the rich people and large corporations have benefited quite nicely at the expense of everything else. They have constructed a wall of denial that allows them to deny that anything is wrong and that they can keep shrinking the middle class and growing the ranks of the working poor without consequence forever.

No matter who replaces Trump, no matter which party is in power, they will continue the neoliberal trickle-on economic policies that will keep making everything worse until either the population doesn't have enough disposable income to prop up a lot of those corporations, or else the Trump-stains will finally create their fascist regime and burn everything to the ground.

Me, I plan on keeping my head down long enough to roast marshmallows over one of the burning mansions just so I can say I did it. I won't kill anyone, I won't set any of the fires, but I think I've earned my right to roast marshmallows over a mansion that's already burning.
 
Trump voters voted for Trump because they thought doing so would save the middle class.

By the time they figure out nothing got better, a Democrat will be in office. The man on their favorite right wing radio show will tell them it's the Democrat's fault things aren't better, but if they vote for candidates even more extreme than Trump, this time everything will get better.

And they will do it because they're a bunch of uncritical brainwashed monkeys who would rather believe the man who tells them they are superior because they are white than their own lying eyes.
 
The major threat to democracy around the world has been the American media and state operatives removing democratically elected governments. Not when a democratically elected leader turns into a dictator.

How many democratically elected governments has the US overthrown?

The same will probably happen in the US, and people will cheer (at first)
 
It is more a matter of realizing it never was there excepting for perhaps the FDR years and there still were capitalist termites working on our social organization to weaken it for economic exploitation. All of the bill of rights seem to be not the standard interpretation of fulfilled.
 
The major threat to democracy around the world has been the American media and state operatives removing democratically elected governments. Not when a democratically elected leader turns into a dictator.

How many democratically elected governments has the US overthrown?
Good question. How many?

And how many have the media removed? Got a list?

- - - Updated - - -

The major threat to democracy around the world has been the American media and state operatives removing democratically elected governments. Not when a democratically elected leader turns into a dictator.

How many democratically elected governments has the US overthrown?
Good question. How many?

And how many have the media removed? Got a list?
 
It's easy to see why people are frightened about someone as obviously dangerous as Donald Trump, and well, George W Bush was a brain damaged alcoholic, so it's hard to expect much from him.

However why were so many people gushing about Barrack Obama? He paved the way for Trump but has been worshipped by Democrats.
Worshipped? The word you are looking for is "relieved". How bad was the W Admin? The Nobel Committee gave the next guy the Peace Prize! How bad is Trump? Same committee may give the Pres. Cuomo two of them.

How bad is Trump? I had to vote for Hillary Clinton for President. The Democrats are far from great, but the alternative party is growing into an authoritarian powerhouse that has shown not so long ago, they can't be trusted with power.

Worship?! Go bury that shit.

- - - Updated - - -

The major threat to democracy around the world has been the American media and state operatives removing democratically elected governments. Not when a democratically elected leader turns into a dictator.

How many democratically elected governments has the US overthrown?
Well, Grover Cleveland, Samuel Tilden (could be argued), Abraham Lincoln, and some CT'ers would say John F. Kennedy.
 
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It's easy to see why people are frightened about someone as obviously dangerous as Donald Trump, and well, George W Bush was a brain damaged alcoholic, so it's hard to expect much from him.

However why were so many people gushing about Barrack Obama? He paved the way for Trump but has been worshipped by Democrats.

Simple tribalism. He was not-Bush and he is not-Trump. It hardly matters what his actual policies and actions are. Republicans hate him for much that same reason.

Also, Republicans control everything today because Democrats have failed so miserably to energize and channel the left. They sold out just like the republicans, so people like Bernie Sanders become popular and people like Hillary Clinton are met with a collective "meh". A sensible base of "meh" (Clinton's support) loses to an energized base of crazy (Trump's support). That is what the past election showed.
 
It's done for.

The thing that drives the collapse of democracy into totalitarianism is economic disparity. If it gets big enough, the majority of people won't actually know how to fix it, so they will use their votes to fuck everything up until either their lives return to the way they used to be, or they tear every fucking thing down and make everyone else as miserable as they are. The whole time this is going on, one or more demagogues will tell them they have the answer to fix everything, and the fix will almost certainly involve getting rid of some minority group instead of anything that actually helps.

Right now the rich people and large corporations have benefited quite nicely at the expense of everything else. They have constructed a wall of denial that allows them to deny that anything is wrong and that they can keep shrinking the middle class and growing the ranks of the working poor without consequence forever.

No matter who replaces Trump, no matter which party is in power, they will continue the neoliberal trickle-on economic policies that will keep making everything worse until either the population doesn't have enough disposable income to prop up a lot of those corporations, or else the Trump-stains will finally create their fascist regime and burn everything to the ground.

Me, I plan on keeping my head down long enough to roast marshmallows over one of the burning mansions just so I can say I did it. I won't kill anyone, I won't set any of the fires, but I think I've earned my right to roast marshmallows over a mansion that's already burning.

There are Keynesian principles that specifically address how to fix it.

But neoliberals, aka free marketeers, have scorn for Keynes. He actually cares about the economy as a whole, not just figuring out ways to help the rich get richer.
 
I've worried about this for months and made the comment back in Nov-Dec that we are at their mercy. The secret healthcare bill could be a strong indicator that we are fucked. If this comes out wildly unpopular with the public and gets passed into law, it will be the clearest indication to date that they simply do not care anymore what we want. Going forward, I would expect more dirty dealing headed toward the midterm elections.
Our feeedoms may die with a couple very old Supreme Court Justices.
 
I've worried about this for months and made the comment back in Nov-Dec that we are at their mercy. The secret healthcare bill could be a strong indicator that we are fucked. If this comes out wildly unpopular with the public and gets passed into law, it will be the clearest indication to date that they simply do not care anymore what we want.
That was clear a long time. The issue at hand is them voting for the unpopular bill going to make a difference at mid-terms. The answer is likely no. THAT is the problem. America doesn't like the Republicans, but can't seem to vote for the alternative because the Republicans warn that the Democrats will rape their babies.
 
The major threat to democracy around the world has been the American media and state operatives removing democratically elected governments. Not when a democratically elected leader turns into a dictator.

How many democratically elected governments has the US overthrown?

The same will probably happen in the US, and people will cheer (at first)

How many of those elections were actually fair elections, though?

How many were of Moscow-supplied puppets?

- - - Updated - - -

I've worried about this for months and made the comment back in Nov-Dec that we are at their mercy. The secret healthcare bill could be a strong indicator that we are fucked. If this comes out wildly unpopular with the public and gets passed into law, it will be the clearest indication to date that they simply do not care anymore what we want. Going forward, I would expect more dirty dealing headed toward the midterm elections.
Our feeedoms may die with a couple very old Supreme Court Justices.

I've been worried about it for many years. The Republicans have made no secret of their desire to take over the country, they got enough power in this election that they might be impossible to remove. On the surface it would remain a democracy but whether it is a true democracy or not might change.
 
More Americans voted for Democratic senators and representatives than Republican. More Americans voted for the Democratic candidate for president than the Republican candidate. Yet the Senate, the House and the presidency are all in Republican control. Democracy is dead in America at the national level. It's tyranny of the minority.
 
I find there are a few prevailing attitudes out there in the wild.

1) Hardcore Republican or Democrat: no matter what. I have to say that in my experience, Republicans are much more in lock step with their party and less likely to criticize it.

2) Who cares who is leading? Republicans, Democrats, they're all the same. This is probably the single most prevalent attitude I see, day in and day out. I think it's something people say out of exasperation, laziness, and something people say to make themselves sound smart. I usually find them pretty uninformed and this stance pisses me off.

3) Complete apathy. Who cares. As long as I have my big screen TV and my reality shows I don't care. I've come to realize something about people as of late that I didn't used to think. Despite what they say, most people don't actually care about truth.
 
Trump voters voted for Trump because they thought doing so would save the middle class.

By the time they figure out nothing got better, a Democrat will be in office. The man on their favorite right wing radio show will tell them it's the Democrat's fault things aren't better, but if they vote for candidates even more extreme than Trump, this time everything will get better.

And they will do it because they're a bunch of uncritical brainwashed monkeys who would rather believe the man who tells them they are superior because they are white than their own lying eyes.

Uh, no. Trump voters voted for Trump because they thought he would save the working class, even though they all think they are middle class. Also racism. And frankly, also because the Democrats have done a piss poor job of paying any attention at all to the concerns and needs of those who do not live in urban areas.
 
More Americans voted for Democratic senators and representatives than Republican. More Americans voted for the Democratic candidate for president than the Republican candidate. Yet the Senate, the House and the presidency are all in Republican control. Democracy is dead in America at the national level. It's tyranny of the minority.

Well, when one guy brings a knife to a knife fight and the other guy brings a fidget spinner because it helps with his anxiety issues, the guy with the knife tends to do a little better.
 
I find there are a few prevailing attitudes out there in the wild.

1) Hardcore Republican or Democrat: no matter what. I have to say that in my experience, Republicans are much more in lock step with their party and less likely to criticize it.

2) Who cares who is leading? Republicans, Democrats, they're all the same. This is probably the single most prevalent attitude I see, day in and day out. I think it's something people say out of exasperation, laziness, and something people say to make themselves sound smart. I usually find them pretty uninformed and this stance pisses me off.

3) Complete apathy. Who cares. As long as I have my big screen TV and my reality shows I don't care. I've come to realize something about people as of late that I didn't used to think. Despite what they say, most people don't actually care about truth.

People care about popularity, and hence about celebrity. Truth is of very little importance; What is believed is that which is stated by those who are popular.

It's a survival heuristic for small bands of paleolithic hunter-gatherers, whose leader is the guy with the most ability to persuade the rest of the tribe to follow him.

It's a poor strategy for a global society of technology users, who choose a course of action based on whether it is endorsed by Hollywood stars, rather than on whether it is recommended by people with the technical qualifications to understand the actual pros and cons.

Having a moronic reality show star as President of the United States was, until recently, a perfect metaphor for this problem; The only thing that has changed is that it has ceased to be metaphorical. Ronald Reagan epitomized this problem, and Donald Trump is its ultimate expression.

Loyalty is more important than truth, in the environment in which humans evolved. That truth is now more important than loyalty is something that only subversives believe - and who is going to trust them?
 
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