Does a Large Part of the Russian Population suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

[barbos]

And speaking of Stockholm syndrome. I keep asking all of you the same question and you keep avoiding it.
How come Russia who has advantage in everything and who for the most was on defensive can have 10 times (according to you) higher losses? Are we that stupid and incompetent? If so, then why do you care for Russia to stop all of this?

There's going to be some differences in perception and belief at play here. But I'll give you my impressions and answers.

First off, I don't think Russia has nearly as much of an advantage as you seem to think. The count of soldiers reported is probably pretty reasonable. But the estimates of firepower, combat readiness, and the capabilities of your country's planes, tanks, and boats is overstated. Some of this is a matter of generals who are probably lying to Putin, who is then exaggerating what he's been told when he tells the rest of the world. Some of it also going to be a disconnect between Russian capabilities and US capabilities - for example, Russia talks about the SU-57 as being a 5th gen stealth aircraft. But what Russia means by 5th gen and what the US means by 5th gen don't seem to be the same thing. And what Russia means by stealth versus what the US means by stealth aren't the same thing. We can see the SU-57 - the radar cross section is a whole lot bigger than Russia seems to believe. Some of that is because Russian stealth technology isn't as good as US stealth technology, and some of it is because US radar technology is better than Russia is aware of. At the end of the day, what you're being told about your country's military prowess is overstated.

Secondly, I don't think that the Russian people as a whole are stupid or incompetent. I don't even think that Russian military personnel are stupid or incompetent. Rather, I think that those service members have been misinformed by their leaders - both about the capabilities of the people they're facing as well as what capabilities their own equipment has.

Lastly, most Americans don't have anything at all against the Russian people. We don't even really have anything against Russian military service members. We have a problem with Putin, and with the actions that he has taken. Honestly, we'd be quite happy if he would halt his aggression and save a bunch of Russian lives.

What a load of crap.
Do you understand that Ukrainians claim that they have 10 to 1 kill ratio? Their new commander Sitrsky just said that.
The one who has his whole family in ..... Russia.
Ukro regime is lying through their teeth about state of the war.
They have to.
You keep talking about Su-57, and it's not even used in this war. Your Abrams tank is useless garbage, even worse than german leopard-2. M1 is utter shit, It can not be used at all. It requires air-filter change every 30 freaking minutes.

 

[barbos]

No, we are not. We lost 40K dead, and Ukraine lost 500K (severely wounded included)

You have no clue what the numbers are and I am unsure to the point of not wanting to quote any.

Casualty numbers in war are often fuzzy, but I think we all (except Barbos) can agree that if Ukraine lost half a million soldiers and Russia less than 1/10 of that, there is no way in hell that Ukraine would even be a country. At the start of the war, Ukraine had just under 200k active personnel. If Barbos' claim were true, that would mean the country would have lost every last active soldier 2 1/2 times over. That would be the equivalent of the US losing about 3.5 million soldiers over the course of 2 years.

Yes, they had reserves, but according to Barbos, the entire Ukrainian active military was wiped out twice and then some, with Russia suffering the military equivalent of a paper cut.

So why is the war still going on?

The Russian numbers could make sense if they are counting civilians as combatants. They have been awfully indiscriminate in their attacks and some actions that appear genocidal.

Disgusting pile garbage. It is ukrainian nazi who has been indiscriminate.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

With Navalny's murder I don't expect we'll see any public reaction. I certainly wouldn't protest because I don't want to end up in a salt mine or dead. Russian Hitler and his cronies executed or imprisoned 1.25 million of its own people in WW2. Good old Order 227 is still alive and well in Putinstan.

 

[JohnG]

I think it’s the power of disinformation, combined with (authoritarian) state controlled narratives.

It’s not difficult to get people to buy in to false narratives if you use the right psychology. The 3 main methods are rage, fear, and giving the recipient a sense of having special knowledge - that they are “in on it”.

We are all familiar with these tactics now - think Alex Jones types, Wellness influencers, far-right candidates….it’s lucrative because it works.

Disinfo has changed the tides in major political movements since the early 2000’s and Russia has become very adept at this tactic. It’s cheap and effective.

Their easiest target is their own people.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think it’s the power of disinformation, combined with (authoritarian) state controlled narratives.

Definitely true. But if a population cannot peacefully protest without fearing for their lives it makes sense that they are going to mouth the state narratives. Russia has never been a free nation where people got to vote over generations and could talk about freedom, develop a civic society that didn't live in fear. That's the main issue. We shouldn't assume we know what that's like, we never experienced that kind of repression, that level of state terror.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Keep your head down and your mouth shut. If you have anything at all to say it should be thank you to the boot on your neck.
We can hardly blame them. Few among us wouldn't do the same. Alexei Navalny was one of those few.

The Death of Alexei Navalny—and His Alternative Russia

The political consequences of what has happened will only add to the feeling of absolute omnipotence and unaccountability of the ruling class and its apparatus of repression. That means that the silent part of society, which prefers to applaud any initiative by the autocracy over free speech, will withdraw into itself even further, or even start to demonstrate zeal in its support for the authorities. Some passive conformists will understand that for personal peace of mind, they need to turn into active conformists.

The authorities do not feel threatened in any way: those who do not keep quiet will only confirm their reputation as enemies, and for them there is a vast machine of oppression and an equally expansive set of repressive legislation. Those who remain silent will keep their mouths firmly closed, and those who support the regime will only do so even more loudly and aggressively.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Russian numbers could make sense if they are counting civilians as combatants. They have been awfully indiscriminate in their attacks and some actions that appear genocidal.

Disgusting pile garbage. It is ukrainian nazi who has been indiscriminate.

They don' have any way to be indiscriminate as there are no Russian civilian targets in the area.

 

[barbos]

The Russian numbers could make sense if they are counting civilians as combatants. They have been awfully indiscriminate in their attacks and some actions that appear genocidal.

Disgusting pile garbage. It is ukrainian nazi who has been indiscriminate.

They don' have any way to be indiscriminate as there are no Russian civilian targets in the area.

No civilians in Donetsk? No civilians in Belgorod?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Russian numbers could make sense if they are counting civilians as combatants. They have been awfully indiscriminate in their attacks and some actions that appear genocidal.

Disgusting pile garbage. It is ukrainian nazi who has been indiscriminate.

They don' have any way to be indiscriminate as there are no Russian civilian targets in the area.

No civilians in Donetsk? No civilians in Belgorod?

No Russian civilians. The only way there could be Russian civilian casualties is the deep strikes and those are severely limited by the fact they're being done entirely with locally-produced weapons.

 

[barbos]

The Russian numbers could make sense if they are counting civilians as combatants. They have been awfully indiscriminate in their attacks and some actions that appear genocidal.

Disgusting pile garbage. It is ukrainian nazi who has been indiscriminate.

They don' have any way to be indiscriminate as there are no Russian civilian targets in the area.

No civilians in Donetsk? No civilians in Belgorod?

No Russian civilians. The only way there could be Russian civilian casualties is the deep strikes and those are severely limited by the fact they're being done entirely with locally-produced weapons.

Really? No Russian civilians in Belgorod?
Are they chinese?

 

[barbos]

reminds me of this regarding the ethnics Russians in Donetsk

You sound as if Donetsk were Ukraine and russians there are some kind of immigrants.
Donetsk is Russian City and it is "ukrainians", however you define it, are the ones who immigrated there. Not the other way around.

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White us what Ukraine was before USSR. And if you go further it was even smaller than that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I like how Ukrainians don't actually exist, but they immigrated there.

 

[Emily Lake]

And Putin made one hell of a mistake in engaging in a war against a country that we would trust enough to heavily arm.

Mmm... not so sure I'm sold on that. We have a pretty well established history of arming fair-weather friends against long-time foes... and then those fair-weather companions end up turning on us.

I would venture that part of the reason Ukraine only has hand-me-downs from the US, and we are NOT actively involved is because 1) they're not an official ally and 2) we don't completely trust that they'll stay our ally in the future. We sell a lot of more advanced stuff to our close friends (AU, I'm looking at you) than to our acquaintances. But even then they don't get our best.

 

[Elixir]

And Putin made one hell of a mistake in engaging in a war against a country that we would trust enough to heavily arm.

Mmm... not so sure I'm sold on that. We have a pretty well established history of arming fair-weather friends against long-time foes... and then those fair-weather companions end up turning on us.

I would venture that part of the reason Ukraine only has hand-me-downs from the US, and we are NOT actively involved is because 1) they're not an official ally and 2) we don't completely trust that they'll stay our ally in the future. We sell a lot of more advanced stuff to our close friends (AU, I'm looking at you) than to our acquaintances. But even then they don't get our best.

Tru dat.
But good enough to beat the Russo-Nazis is good enough. Or rather, it would be, if our House of Representatives wasn’t under the thumb of a civilian Russo-Nazi.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And Putin made one hell of a mistake in engaging in a war against a country that we would trust enough to heavily arm.

Mmm... not so sure I'm sold on that. We have a pretty well established history of arming fair-weather friends against long-time foes... and then those fair-weather companions end up turning on us.

I would venture that part of the reason Ukraine only has hand-me-downs from the US, and we are NOT actively involved is because 1) they're not an official ally and 2) we don't completely trust that they'll stay our ally in the future. We sell a lot of more advanced stuff to our close friends (AU, I'm looking at you) than to our acquaintances. But even then they don't get our best.

True, we have made mistakes, mostly with Islam. That's why we are skittish about providing heavy arms.

 

[barbos]

I like how Ukrainians don't actually exist, but they immigrated there.

Well, they exist, but mostly in the heads of people like you.