Does a Large Part of the Russian Population suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

[ZiprHead]

You are, however absolutely correct in your claim that I did not provide a single shred of evidence in support of your completely incorrect claims. Though why you would expect me to is beyond me.

I don't give a shit. I am not paid to educate you here let alone translate into english ukro-nazi youtubes. Especially after you have shown zero interest in acknowledging being wrong before.
All I can tell you that you are not gonna find many people in Russia agreeing with shit you produce.

We have a linguist here who can do all the translating we need. So go ahead and post those youtubes.

 

[Ford]

You are, however absolutely correct in your claim that I did not provide a single shred of evidence in support of your completely incorrect claims. Though why you would expect me to is beyond me.

I don't give a shit. I am not paid to educate you here let alone translate into english ukro-nazi youtubes. Especially after you have shown zero interest in acknowledging being wrong before.
All I can tell you that you are not gonna find many people in Russia agreeing with shit you produce.

We have a linguist here who can do all the translating we need. So go ahead and post those youtubes.

This is descending into Baghdad Bob territory. I mean, Babs said that the source was "ukro-Nazi propaganda youtubes." Yet it is also true that Babs thinks all "ukro-Nazis" are liars and their numbers are all wrong.

So which one is it? Are the alleged youtubes accurate or not? And if not, why insist that's all the "proof" needed?

 

[Emily Lake]

I made a comment elsewhere about how Russia and China have lied about their military size and capabilities for years... and so has the US. It's just turned out that we've lied in opposite directions.

I don't think Russia is "lying". That implies intent. Rather, I believe what we are seeing is the corruption that plagues their system. Many things were there only on paper. And many other things actually existed but weren't maintained--think of all those tires that failed because the vehicles hadn't been moved around.

Then we have Russia thinking it's an easy victory while the Ukrainians fought smart. Don't fight that tank column, kill it's logistics. Tanks without fuel are low quality pillboxes.

What are you two talking about? Seriously?

Your analysts were claiming that Russia would run out of cruise missiles in April 2022. For fuck's sake.
Russian government hardly ever reports their military size and capabilities, they prefer not talking to lying.
It was you who analyzed the shit out of garbage which had no relation to reality.

Tell me again how those SU-57s and T-90s are working out for you.

SU-57 are being tested in the war with NATO. But it's mostly Su-35 and Su-34. 1.5 ton gliding bombs work like a charm.
T-90? how are leopards and abrams working for you in Ukraine?

The US isn't active in Ukraine. All we've done is sell Ukraine some hand-me-downs.

With which they're roundly whooping your ass in this "special military operation".

 

[Emily Lake]

Every forum has their resident Russian apologist and they all say pretty much the same thing

And bunch of ignorant american imperialism apologists, like yourself,

Lol, so sayeth the imperialist supporter...

Seriously - do you understand that Russia is the one engaging in imperialism here?

No, I understand that it is USA.

They're the one who invaded a neighboring independent country and tried to forcibly occupy them.

I say "tried" because you guys haven't done a very good job of it.

They are not independent (never were), and not even a country.

Russia recently deciding to not recognize Ukraine as an independent country doesn't change history.

What's your view on Taiwan?

 

[Emily Lake]

I think Russian leaders are inhuman. You are losing a generation of young men and it will be decades before Russia recovers.

No, we are not. We lost 40K dead, and Ukraine lost 500K (severely wounded included)
Russian voluntary enlistment is doing great. A lot of people see that as easy money at relatively low risk of being killed.
Inhuman are your governments who are sending ukrainians to death in order to reelect senile piece of shit.
You lost this war you started. I repeat again, you started it.

Okay, I'm genuinely interested here, not just playing the game of throwing shade here.

How do you figure that the US started a Russian "Special Military Operation" that involved Russian forces invading Ukraine?
How do you figure that the US is sending Ukrainians to their deaths, and how do you think that somehow ties into this year's US Presidential Election?

 

[Emily Lake]

Casualty numbers in war are often fuzzy, but I think we all (except Barbos) can agree that if Ukraine lost half a million soldiers and Russia less than 1/10 of that, there is no way in hell that Ukraine would even be a country.

What part of "Unkrainian regime admitted 500K number" you do not understand?

Do you have a source for that? The highest number for Ukrainian losses I can find is ~380K casualties (both killed and injured), and that's reported by Russian Ministry of Defense. I've seen several claims of 500K total casualties, which includes both Ukrainian and Russian military as well as civilians.

Estimates of Ukrainian losses vary between 35K and 70K killed, with 90K to 120K injured.
Estimates of Russian losses vary between 70K and 150K killed, with 170K to 280K injured.

Reporting from both Russia and Ukraine is highly biased, so estimates show a significant variance. We probably won't have anything clearer than that until several years after it's done.

 

[Ford]

Reporting from both Russia and Ukraine is highly biased, so estimates show a significant variance. We probably won't have anything clearer than that until several years after it's done.

Well, as far as Barbos is concerned, reporting from Russia is absolutely 100 percent accurate all the time, and reporting from Ukraine is hopelessly biased...and also accurate (when he agrees with it). When it comes to this war, Barbos will not deviate from official Russian propaganda. He is literally here to push the Russian message. Look what he's already claimed on who started the war. To hear Babs tell it, Russia was just sitting around singing "Kumbayah" and chilling out when suddenly NATO attacked Russia. Not "attacked Russians in Ukraine" but actually crossed the Russian border agreed upon in the aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union. NATO soldiers, planes and tanks invaded Russia proper, and Vlad is merely fighting back.

Does he actually believe this? We don't know for sure, but he's here to sell it.

 

[Elixir]

Does he actually believe this? We don't know for sure, but he's here to sell it.

Good luck with that.
He probably doesn’t know that the whole tragicomic Russian clown show, from the lead up, to the massacre of the first wave of invaders, to the Russian war crimes and atrocities, to the ongoing attacks on civilians, the kidnapping of children … even the sinking and disabling of Russia’s Black Sea fleet- it has all been on live tv here in The Dreaded West.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Does he actually believe this? We don't know for sure, but he's here to sell it.

Good luck with that.
He probably doesn’t know that the whole tragicomic Russian clown show, from the lead up, to the massacre of the first wave of invaders, to the Russian war crimes and atrocities, to the ongoing attacks on civilians, the kidnapping of children … even the sinking and disabling of Russia’s Black Sea fleet- it has all been on live tv here in The Dreaded West.

Propaganda by nazis invading Motherland. Why would good Russian patriot watch fascist propaganda.

 

[barbos]

Do you have a source for that? The highest number for Ukrainian losses I can find is ~380K casualties (both killed and injured), and that's reported by Russian Ministry of Defense. I

Source is a member of Ukrainian parliament, don't remember his name, Arestovich made such claims too. But more importantly Zaluzhny himself who blurted they need 30K new recruits every month implying that is for replacement.
Russian losses are about 40K, according to US funded anti-russsian entity called Mediazone.
They sift through russian local papers and run through cemeteries counting dead.
I actually unintentionally did the same when was at the local cemetery and did the estimation. It's consistent with Mediazone number of 40K.

Russia does not have large losses and it cannot happen. The mere fact of perceived slow progress of russian advancement is a testament to that. Russian army is not on the clock and simply retreats any time it sees it's not worth it (losses wise) to hold or to attack. Whereas Elensky is constantly under pressure to produce results for his superiors in Washington and deranged ukrainian public.

Putin realized that economy is fine and as long as losses are minimal he can continue this indefinitely.

 

[barbos]

And speaking of Stockholm syndrome. I keep asking all of you the same question and you keep avoiding it.
How come Russia who has advantage in everything and who for the most was on defensive can have 10 times (according to you) higher losses? Are we that stupid and incompetent? If so, then why do you care for Russia to stop all of this?
Are you not aware of the first rule of war ?
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

 

[barbos]

About that famous ZDF report from Mariupol
She really lectures West Media here.


She noticed how "nazi" (my word) lady on the right made a freudian slip and used "pro-western" instead of "pro-ukrainian", making look like it's a war between Russia and the West (NATO).
Of course you don't speak russian or german and don't understand any of that.

Youtuber is a russian who had lived in the West (France and Germany) for 20 years before moving back to Russia.
Married to a german but returned with her husband (I presume) and children to Russia after this war was started.
She speaks french, german and english. Now she observes french and german press and makes videos about that and her life in France, Germany and Russia.

About that famous ZDF interview. The guy went there and tried to do his best not to look pro-russian and more less failed and now is being attacked by your media. And yes, this fuck-up happened because if was a live interview.

 

[Emily Lake]

And speaking of Stockholm syndrome. I keep asking all of you the same question and you keep avoiding it.
How come Russia who has advantage in everything and who for the most was on defensive can have 10 times (according to you) higher losses? Are we that stupid and incompetent? If so, then why do you care for Russia to stop all of this?

There's going to be some differences in perception and belief at play here. But I'll give you my impressions and answers.

First off, I don't think Russia has nearly as much of an advantage as you seem to think. The count of soldiers reported is probably pretty reasonable. But the estimates of firepower, combat readiness, and the capabilities of your country's planes, tanks, and boats is overstated. Some of this is a matter of generals who are probably lying to Putin, who is then exaggerating what he's been told when he tells the rest of the world. Some of it also going to be a disconnect between Russian capabilities and US capabilities - for example, Russia talks about the SU-57 as being a 5th gen stealth aircraft. But what Russia means by 5th gen and what the US means by 5th gen don't seem to be the same thing. And what Russia means by stealth versus what the US means by stealth aren't the same thing. We can see the SU-57 - the radar cross section is a whole lot bigger than Russia seems to believe. Some of that is because Russian stealth technology isn't as good as US stealth technology, and some of it is because US radar technology is better than Russia is aware of. At the end of the day, what you're being told about your country's military prowess is overstated.

Secondly, I don't think that the Russian people as a whole are stupid or incompetent. I don't even think that Russian military personnel are stupid or incompetent. Rather, I think that those service members have been misinformed by their leaders - both about the capabilities of the people they're facing as well as what capabilities their own equipment has.

Lastly, most Americans don't have anything at all against the Russian people. We don't even really have anything against Russian military service members. We have a problem with Putin, and with the actions that he has taken. Honestly, we'd be quite happy if he would halt his aggression and save a bunch of Russian lives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, we are not. We lost 40K dead, and Ukraine lost 500K (severely wounded included)

You have no clue what the numbers are and I am unsure to the point of not wanting to quote any.

Casualty numbers in war are often fuzzy, but I think we all (except Barbos) can agree that if Ukraine lost half a million soldiers and Russia less than 1/10 of that, there is no way in hell that Ukraine would even be a country. At the start of the war, Ukraine had just under 200k active personnel. If Barbos' claim were true, that would mean the country would have lost every last active soldier 2 1/2 times over. That would be the equivalent of the US losing about 3.5 million soldiers over the course of 2 years.

Yes, they had reserves, but according to Barbos, the entire Ukrainian active military was wiped out twice and then some, with Russia suffering the military equivalent of a paper cut.

So why is the war still going on?

The Russian numbers could make sense if they are counting civilians as combatants. They have been awfully indiscriminate in their attacks and some actions that appear genocidal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Casualty numbers in war are often fuzzy, but I think we all (except Barbos) can agree that if Ukraine lost half a million soldiers and Russia less than 1/10 of that, there is no way in hell that Ukraine would even be a country.

What part of "Unkrainian regime admitted 500K number" you do not understand?

The problem here is that that number doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And speaking of Stockholm syndrome. I keep asking all of you the same question and you keep avoiding it.
How come Russia who has advantage in everything and who for the most was on defensive can have 10 times (according to you) higher losses? Are we that stupid and incompetent? If so, then why do you care for Russia to stop all of this?
Are you not aware of the first rule of war ?
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

Mostly on the defense? No--you keep trying to push into fortified Ukrainian positions and bleed heavily as a result.

And your force is effectively that stupid and incompetent because your leadership is. They keep ordering troops to do stupid things and they get slaughtered in the process. Everyone has so overstated things that to admit that the orders are impossible is to admit their own failure--the only way for the people in charge to keep their own heads is to kick the shit downhill.

And Putin made one hell of a mistake in engaging in a war against a country that we would trust enough to heavily arm. Your previous targets have been sufficiently untrustworthy that we never gave them heavy firepower.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Secondly, I don't think that the Russian people as a whole are stupid or incompetent. I don't even think that Russian military personnel are stupid or incompetent. Rather, I think that those service members have been misinformed by their leaders - both about the capabilities of the people they're facing as well as what capabilities their own equipment has.

Mostly I agree with you. However, in this case I disagree--the Russian military personnel are incompetent. That's because competence is expensive--the money that should have been spent on making them competent was to a large part diverted. We saw things like the trucks with rotten tires because they sat for years--note that the flip side is that the truck drivers likewise didn't drive trucks for years. That's simply the most obvious thing but the rot is pervasive in their system and there's no way that it doesn't also apply to the training.

 

[Ford]

Casualty numbers in war are often fuzzy, but I think we all (except Barbos) can agree that if Ukraine lost half a million soldiers and Russia less than 1/10 of that, there is no way in hell that Ukraine would even be a country.

What part of "Unkrainian regime admitted 500K number" you do not understand?

The problem here is that that number doesn't pass the laugh test.

It's like the whole "Putin says he likes Biden better than Trump" thing. Disinformation. But then, that's why Barbos is repeating it. He's here for pretty much no other purpose than to spread Moscow's message.

 

[barbos]

And speaking of Stockholm syndrome. I keep asking all of you the same question and you keep avoiding it.
How come Russia who has advantage in everything and who for the most was on defensive can have 10 times (according to you) higher losses? Are we that stupid and incompetent? If so, then why do you care for Russia to stop all of this?
Are you not aware of the first rule of war ?
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

Mostly on the defense? No--you keep trying to push into fortified Ukrainian positions and bleed heavily as a result.

And your force is effectively that stupid and incompetent because your leadership is. They keep ordering troops to do stupid things and they get slaughtered in the process. Everyone has so overstated things that to admit that the orders are impossible is to admit their own failure--the only way for the people in charge to keep their own heads is to kick the shit downhill.

And Putin made one hell of a mistake in engaging in a war against a country that we would trust enough to heavily arm. Your previous targets have been sufficiently untrustworthy that we never gave them heavy firepower.

Fine, keep believing in Ghost of Kiev type narratives.

 

[barbos]

Casualty numbers in war are often fuzzy, but I think we all (except Barbos) can agree that if Ukraine lost half a million soldiers and Russia less than 1/10 of that, there is no way in hell that Ukraine would even be a country.

What part of "Unkrainian regime admitted 500K number" you do not understand?

The problem here is that that number doesn't pass the laugh test.

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