steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
In the end it is between you and your inner voice, concious, or your higher power.
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Does your ideology include a clause that says you should raise hell against evil religions?
- Thread starter Gnostic Christian Bishop
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steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
When are you getting promoted to Cardinal?
I don't embrace all religions. I believe in a right to free thought and expression even if it makesd no sense to me , limited by infnging on ohters' rights.
Diversity requires tolerance of that which we do not like or agree with. Diversity requires not reducing groups to simplistic stereotypes labels as evil, regardless of what some do in the name of a belief.
Evil in evolution? That is bizarre to say the least and exposes who you are, a very typical shallow simplistic Evangelical Christian on a rant.
Evil in evolution implies agency, which is not part of evolution. Mutation and natural selection. Evil as a concept is a human invention. That leads into moral philosophy.
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Do you like to lose when you compete?
I assume here that you do not.
That is the evil in evolution, while cooperation is good as no loser is created.
The agency comes from the competitors as they are the sentient ones.
You do not seem to know yourself as well as you should.
Regards
DL
What are you talking about? Evolution is an undirected natural process - it is neither good nor evil. Gravity makes people fall from the top of mountains and tall buildings and die or get seriously hurt - this does not make gravity evil. Viruses kill millions of people - this does not make a virus evil.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
As Alice said, curiouser and curiouser. Down the rabbit hole we go.
You appear tobe equally ignorant in both science and religion. What do you mean by sentient ones? By ahency is meant tere is no cretrr or intelligence that guides evolution.
In the Amazon even plants compete for light and nutrients. It is a slow motion battle.
We talk about the worse of religion, at its best it keeps a lid on our instinctive behavior. That is what moral philosophy once served.
As I repeatedly point out, religion has not been a cause of larger scale atrocities over the last 100 years.
First it region with you, now evolution creates evil.
Reality is what it is. There are no guiding intellgences posseing a morality.
Morality is what we try to impose on ourelves in both self interest and the interest of the group.
I like the Buddhist approach, evil is not external, it is in you. That is where the battle starts.Figuring out your own neuroses.
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Undirected??
Do you not choose and direct who you will compete with and who you will cooperate with?
I do.
The issue is the good and evil in evolution.
Try following the conversation and answer the question posed above, then we can chat.
Regards
DL
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Undirected - not directed or controlled by a sentient entity towards a definite purpose. The process of evolution is undirected - it is not controlled or directed by a sentient entity, that we know of. Evil implies conscious intent, and the process of evolution has no conscious intent - it is purely the interaction of matter/energy following natural patterns. Our brains, which are the products of undirected processes, are capable of making good or bad decisions, but this does not make the process by which our brains evolved good or evil.
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The Socratic method is great for finding truths.
Answer my question or go away.
Regards
DL
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
I spent most of my life as a competitive engineer in a highly competitive environment. An environment where is could be hard to be ethical when others were not. An environment wherer doing the right thing at times bought professional risk. What do you compete over, other than anonymous forums and pointless debates.
I never put it on a win-lose basis some didFor me It was about success and failure and success of the group so we all got a paycheck. Competition and aggressiveness is good when moderated by larger concerns and does not descend into personal disputes. When I worked at Intel in the 80s there was a saying, 'constructive confrontation'. It meant aggrieve constructive criticism and holding peopleaccountable while working towards a common goal without personal hostility. If you made assertions you could not support with data or theory you got your head handed to you by peers.
I have seen it all. That is why I ask theists how faith guides daily life, and I never get a response.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Cllassic theist hand waving and misdirection, an atempt to turn the tables.
Do yiu think evolution has a guiding intelligence in any form? A yes no quetion.
I made a good faith effort to explain why your claim is nonsensical. You can choose to explain what you mean by the statement that evolution is evil, or you can continue to peddle your seemingly ignorant woo to an empty room. The processes that drive evolution are not sentient, and it makes no sense to ascribe human characteristics and motives to these processes. Maybe that is not the point you are trying to make, but I can't read your fucking mind, which is why I am asking you to explain.
And no, I will not go away. This is not your house and you have no business telling others what they can or cannot do. If you continue to make nonsensical claims, I will continue to point out that they are nonsensical.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Adding competition and cooperation are not mutually exclusive. It depnds on what you are talking about. Competitive boxing is not the same as being competitive in a group working towards a goal.
Do yiu think you are competing with people on the forum, and winning?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Loaded language. How isn't this just a carte blanche to label anything you don't like as evil and then attack it? I think you need more qualifiers.
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On the evil part of our evolution.
This was written for Christians and if those here cannot understand it ----
Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.
Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.
Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.
Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
This link speak to theistic evolution.
www.smithsonianmag.com
If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.
Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.
Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?
Regards
DL
This was written for Christians and if those here cannot understand it ----
Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.
Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.
Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.
Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
This link speak to theistic evolution.
The Pope Would Like You to Accept Evolution and the Big Bang
The Roman Catholic Church is pro-evolution and Big Bang, but with a twist
If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.
Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.
Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?
Regards
DL
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Gobbledygook. Gibberish is a dialect of gobbledygook.
Stream of compressions, a stream of unconnected thoughts. Tripping.
en.wikipedia.org
Is evolution evil yes or no.
Stream of compressions, a stream of unconnected thoughts. Tripping.
Stream of consciousness - Wikipedia
Is evolution evil yes or no.
Elixir
Made in America
Evolution is God's most exquisite invention. Assuming there's a God. And that He didn't steal someone else's invention.
That was my thought as well pretty much. No specific clause of that nature, but definitely an ideology of opposing injustice, abuse, fraud, manipulation, etc., and any ideologies that encourage or allow for such. So that would include much of what we call religion, but could also be secular ideologies. Specific beliefs and attitudes can be examined without regard to what group identities they're associated with. If inhumane or stupid beliefs are associated with a certain ideology, then, yeah, I oppose that ideology.
It would be a very religious mentality to consciously include a "clause" specifically for opposing religions without some kind of qualification other than just identifying a religion as "evil." We need to think about and articulate exactly why we would oppose a religion or ideology or some element(s) within them.