Donald Trump looks Old.

[Tigers!]

a male New Yorker has a Life Expectancy at Birth of 74.14 years

I’m 74.43 yrs old, and born near NY.
Been nice chatting y’all!

Where do you want the flowers sent to?

 

[Rhea]

Tl;dr on this:

I do not agree that the MAGA people have a legitimate gripe about being “unheard” versus the non MAGA people, who are also facing the same pressures, but are not trying to end the country over it as if they are the only ones suffering.

it's difficult to understand how others can possibly consider him a charismatic, intelligent, and godly, upstanding moral man.

When you consider the caliber of his worshippers it isn't really so difficult. His worshippers tend to be emotionally driven, in a way as blind to their own narcissism as their orange god.

I don't think it is fair to call all of the MAGAs as being 'emotionally driven' or 'narcissism.' Tim Walz has said what I've said for a long time: There are large numbers of people who, for various reasons, often reasons of geography, who feel as though the federal government has overlooked them or legislated against their interests. They don't feel heard. Here, there are plenty of posters who post disparagingly about people living in flyover country or indeed, outside of urban areas.

I honestly have never heard anyone use the term “flyover country” except those inside that space complaining about “elites” calling them that. But I’ve never hear the supposed disdainers ever use that term.

Of course, there are those uber wealthy people who support Trump because he will favor policies which favor them: anti-environment, anti-labor, anti-taxes--for the wealthy. And of course, Trump appeals to the isolationists and those with internalized racism, homophobia and sexism.

Please tell me what policies have harmed/overlooked them that hasn't also harmed overlooked every middle working class American. So sorry, but that's not a reason to support trump

Please keep in mind: the question is, what do they feel “unheard” about that every other mjiddle class person is not ALSO unheard about. That important, because I don’t think you’ve hit on it.

Policies that provide social services for immigrants and immigrant children hit lower income areas harder than wealthier areas.

You say this as if the question was “wealthy areas versus poor areas.” But that wasn’t the question. It was why do MAGA poor people and MAGA middle class people adhere to him when other poor people and other middle class people do not.

There are a lot of people in lower income areas that are hit by immigrant costs that do NOT follow Trump emotionally and uncritically. So why do these MAGA people do it?

It is expensive to need to hire interpreters for different language speakers and at all levels of schooling. Small town/rural school districts struggle to appropriately fund their school systems already.

So do urban poor districts. But they aren’t MAGA

Having an extra financial burden because of newcomers is hard to swallow. Similar strains on hospitals and clinics and other infrastructure. Increase in demand for low income housing where this is already an issue.

Same is true in non-MAGA strained areas. But they aren’t MAGA.

That's just one area. I am not denying that there is some racism and xenophobia at play here but mostly, it is a loss of a way of life that people who live there have valued for generations: people knowing each other, helping each other when help is needed.

Why aren’t they bringing the new people into the help each other fold, then?
I know in our area people test you - “do you have any people here?” They don’t always have the welcome mat out.

Not everyone, mind you, just the MAGA people who are about 2/3 of the people. The other 1/3 is lovely.

Fracking: Two different sides at least. On one hand, it can provide decent paying jobs for people hungry for decent paying jobs. OTOH, it causes a lot of pollution of water and air. No one wants to live near a fracking project but there are competing interests, long and short term. And of course, the money leaves and goes out of town.

A lot of folks in my area DO want to live near fracking and were pissed that they couldn’t have one on their farm because it got banned. They don’t care about the pollution until it happens to their own well, and they all think it won’t. Also, it doesn’t provide decent paying jobs. Those are all done by imported workers who live in man-camps and bring drugs and rape to the area. The only jobs that came are sales of white pickup trucks. The locals just get royalty money, that’s what they like about it.

Farm prices and supports are always a huge bone of contention. It's not all market driven but is also driven by policies and prices established by people who live far away.

Farm welfare is not strong enough, making them feel left behind. Check. I know this one is true as well. I spent some time arguing against the farmers who wanted to expand the AG assessment rate to smaller and smaller farms. At the time it was available to farms that grossed at least $10K per year. Not net. Gross. Obviously not a fuill time job. But they wanted the land assessment that was less than 1/3 what others pay. I argued they were harming themselves because their taxes would go up significantly if they wanted a higher percentage of the town to have the Ag rate; that they were seeking to give the discount to hobby farmers and elites who just owned land for the view. That they should keep it exclusive to actual farmers.

I gave the example that your $20K grossing farm would now have to share the discount with the corporate paycheck couple who just had chickens for couple of dozen eggs, but had 30 acres. Or worse yet, with the one who had 80 acres just for the view and a 15x30 foot kitchenm garden.

They would not understand it. They thought that if everyone got the lower assessment, their taxes would go down. They would not understand that the town’s gonna collect the whole needed budget regardless - we’re just arguing WHICH of us is footing the bill. If you give the discount to everyone, the farmers will raise their own taxes. Make me pay more. I should pay more. I’m not trying to farm for a living. My land is fallow and will remain that way. Why do you want me ti have a discount?

Are they “not being heard” here? Technically, yeah. We did not pass their request that people who only made $1000 a year on their “farm” would get the assessment Ag rate. Because it would have harmed the farmers.

Property taxes increase to support increased demands on infrastructure and help drive farmers out of business.

And does this not also happen to non MAGA communities? Driving other small businesses out of business?

The area where I grew up used to be nothing but lovely farmland with an occasional small town. Now, it's pocked with warehouses and fulfillment centers. Staffed by large numbers of people who are mostly immigrants with dark skin and 'funny' religions and weird languages and food and customs.

Ah. The dark skin and funny religions. It is true that many of the MAGA areas have issues with that. Do we not see the same in poor areas that are not MAGA? Maybe we’ve happened upon the real difference.

(I'm in favor of increased diversity. One thing that drove me crazy as a kid was how everybody all looked the same and I was certain I could walk into any home in my town and know exactly where everything was in the kitchen and which was the junk drawer because the houses were almost all alike, just as the people were. Heck, I was related to a significant portion of my corner of the county I grew up in. At the same time, the school district has seen a massive influx of money raised from taxes those warehouse owners pay.

So they bring in money for the services. For our town, when a wealthy business moves in (frackers, in our case), the taxes went down. But the MAGA people still complained and “felt left behind” and literally did not believe it when we told them the new lower tax rate. Because we were Democrats. “Our taxes are outrageous!! They are the worst in the county!” No, your taxes have stayed flat for 8 years and we’re now n the lowest 1/3 in the county. “You Lie!””

And of course the schools greatly benefit from having a more diverse student population but it does make at least some of the white folks whose families have lived there for generations feel pushed aside.

Why. Why do they feel pushed aside by having a diverse school district?
I mean, you’re right, they do feel that. They say it.
But it is not because they are uniquely “unheard” in the nation.

My own sibling is talking about wanting to move elsewhere not because of the increased diversity (they agree with me that this is a strong benefit) but because of the increased traffic.

So her town is growing. And that is bad. This is being “left behind”?

Virtually no more mom and pop shops but endless low tier strip malls.

And they think this is the democrats’ fault, rather than the corporate greed unfettered by the republicans.
They want to “not be left behind” by voting for the people who reversed the high tax rates on the businesses and superwealthy. Go MAGA.

Not even nicer stuff: just junk. More crime. No more farm stands. Everything that was charming and cozy and friendly has been wiped out.

Wiped out by growth? By not being left behind?
Sounds like they WANT to be left behind. (They could come to my town, which is shrinking, we have farm stands.)

This happened decades earlier but my father's cousin owned a lovely farm with a beautiful old farmhouse on the top of a hill. Decades ago, an interstate ran right down the middle of his land, making much of it inaccessible and unsuitable for farming. Of course he was paid nicely for it but I remember how it broke him. The farm was his life and had been in his family for generations. Money doesn't compensate for everything. And I remember my father who was simultaneously a bit envious of the big amount of cash but at the same time, mourned with his cousin over the loss. The land was taken by imminent domain so my cousin had no choice in the matter except whether or not to try to continue to farm what land was left. I don't think non-farm people quite understand just how much that means to people: It's tradition, it's a way of life, it is life for ....unfortunately a smaller and smaller number of people.

Do they think eminent domain doesn’t happen to the non-MAGA poor whose small grocery is taken out by an interstate?
Remeber - the question was, “what has happened to them that isn’t also happening to everyone else?”

Imagine your grandfather or great grandfather built a lovely family home over the course of a decade or more, using timber he felled on land he cleared, carefully designing a dream home for his family, something to leave to the next generation which added to and improved the family place--and then it is simply wiped out by decisions made by someone who has never seen the place and does not care about anything other than $ to be made.

Welcome to what has happened to most Black neighborhoods in non-MAGA land for a much longer history. Never noticed when it wasn’t them, did they?

Remember the question was:
“Please tell me what policies have harmed/overlooked them that hasn't also harmed overlooked every middle working class American. So sorry, but that's not a reason to support trump”

I cannot even drive around that corner of the county anymore and know where I am unless I see a road sign. No more turning at this farm or that or by that red barn or where they always keep horses (or cows or pigs, depending).

Because you left. If you’d stayed there the whole time, you would not get lost.

It just does not exist anymore and is replaced by houses that are all made of ticky tack and all look the same and strip malls and places that sell cheap stuff for not much money but sell a lot of it, most of it ending up in landfills in a couple of years.

While I share your disdain for cookie cutter neighborhoods, this is not being “left behind”, it’s growtha and gentrification, and again it is happening to the non-MAGA poor and middle class, too. So this is no reason to support Trump.

Hospitals are closed down to increase the 'efficiency' of health care delivery to regions, often leaving women no choice but to travel hours to and from prenatal appointments and for labor/delivery. Labor and delivery is one of the first services to go when hospitals decide to get 'efficient.'

This is true in non-MAGA rural places as well, and in non-MAGA urban poor areas.
Moreover, the MAGA politicians plan to accelerate this, not solve it.
So again, no reason to support Trump

School districts similarly consolidate and close down smaller buildings and bus children further. Happens even in my town(different state altogether than where I grew up). When we moved here, my kids could easily walk to elementary school, middle school and high school. Now they could still walk to the same high school but the elementary school is now apartments (they are finally putting in a playground again that had been in the school yard and served the entire neighborhood of kids and is now almost entirely a parking lot, and lots of signs that say keep out. In the process of converting the school to housing (definitely a need--can't argue about that), they ripped out tens of thousands of dollars of playground equipment paid for by the local PTA fundraisers. What is going in is not as much or as nice but it is something. A small bone to throw to the neighborhood. Kids now spend an hour a day on buses going back and forth to buildings....

We’re rural, so we never could walk to school. They did close our town school in the 80s and we now send our kids to the next town.

But agsin, this is also happening to non-MAGA towns. So why does this make them support MAGA?

By and large, one way or another, jobs and businesses are leaving small towns and rural areas as big boxes and big corporations take over.

So why TF do they support the people who support this stuff? MAGA makes this worse. How can they complain about being “unheard” and then support the people who are not hearing them?

And everything looks exactly like the next town down the road.

Obviously, things change over time. It's often but not always progress but even progress has its winners and losers. A lot of people feel like they are on the losing end of the stick, losing what they value to nameless bureaucrats and CEOs who look over their family land or town and see $$ instead of lives lived.

ANd then they vote for them.

It’s flabbergasting.

Remember the question was:
“Please tell me what policies have harmed/overlooked them that hasn't also harmed/overlooked every middle working class American. So sorry, but that's not a reason to support trump“

I know you used to live rural, Toni.
I live rural NOW.
And the Trump/MAGA bullshit leans a lot more heavily on the Social/Ethnic “left behind” than the economic one.

 

[Bronzeage]

From what they say, the Republicans care deeply about democracy, so I don’t think they could countenance a replacement of their nominee without a new primary season, right?

They've thought of that. If Trump drops dead tomorrow morning, the GOP is going to execute a secret plan called "Weekend at Donny's".

Dead or alive, Trump is going to be the Republican candidate.

 

[Jarhyn]

From what they say, the Republicans care deeply about democracy, so I don’t think they could countenance a replacement of their nominee without a new primary season, right?

They've thought of that. If Trump drops dead tomorrow morning, the GOP is going to execute a secret plan called "Weekend at Donny's".

Dead or alive, Trump is going to be the Republican candidate.

I expect Elon Musk would train up a version of Grok to respond to questions the way Donald Trump does, and they'll just run that.

In the mean time, they'll just train it to approve of anything in project 2025, or anything that will enrich the wealthy, and to reject/insult anything else.

 

[starwater]

Perhaps the Greed over People Party has a doppelganger waiting in the wings.

The orange one does look not quite so orange and old. He was getting his energy from his acolytes at the rally's. Now that the momentum of the race has changed, he can't come to grips with it. He has to change his game plan, which Donny was never good at being quick on his feet. His same old stich is not bringing in the independents. Its tired and old - just like he is. J.D. is a huge drag on the ticket.

 

[LoAmmo]

The double standard is infuriating. A fundamentally good and decent man, in Joe Biden, was basically hectored right out of office and into retirement for displaying cognitive impairment that was objectively a mere fraction as severe as Donald Trump is freely allowed to exhibit day after day, rally after rally, insane tweet after insane tweet.
Even Trump’s supporters —who, not unlike broken clocks, tell the truth twice a day—admit there’s some crazy shit coming out of that mouth, but it’s excused as just “Trump being Trump.”
Joe Biden, a self-described gaffe machine who has always mangled names and dates and gotten things mixed up, was certainly not given that same courtesy; the freedom to be excused as just “Joe being Joe.”
Biden’s public lapses were The.Worst.Thing.Ever.—but Trump is given a free pass for his, which, inarguably, are not only much worse, but much more dangerous.
I’m glad Harris and Walz are coming hard at Trump for the mental acuity thing; I don’t think they can be cruel or pointed enough in their jibes to ever truly level that playing field…but I sure hope they give it their best shot.
Who’s the fucking senile old man in the race now, Grandpa?

 

[ideologyhunter]

The Old Orange Man has Dementia


I think it's obvious that the orange fascist is suffering from dementia.

As a self-described medical specialist, I would remind you that Trump mastered Person-Woman-Man-Camera-TV and could do that again with very little prep time.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Who better than a Manhattan real estate developer with an MBA from Penn to fight the Ivy League coastal elites on behalf of the brain-dead, I mean common man?

The only flaw I see in that is that Trump obviously didn't read a single book from cover to cover in "college" and paid others to write his papers. Have you read his illiterate posts?

 

[robnisch]

What I don't understand is how someone can be so angry all the time.
Like stress, it has to take a toll on ones health.
The amount of energy it takes to be mad all the time must be exhausting.

 

[TomC]

What I don't understand is how someone can be so angry all the time.
Like stress, it has to take a toll on ones health.
The amount of energy it takes to be mad all the time must be exhausting.

And Harris-Walz and the Democrats have just gotten started.
Tom

 

[ideologyhunter]

It's pretty much a smorgasbord for anyone running against Trump. You can call him a sex abuser, a business fraudster, a crooked charity manager, a tax cheat, an adulterer, and that's just the stuff that's in cold print. Anyone who follows the news and has adequate character assessment skills can add serial liar, sadist, juvenile arrested development case, racist, misogynist, traitor, and sociopath. Kamala's running on her record. In Trump World, the word has an additional meaning.

 

[Ford]

Perhaps the Greed over People Party has a doppelganger waiting in the wings.

The orange one does look not quite so orange and old. He was getting his energy from his acolytes at the rally's. Now that the momentum of the race has changed, he can't come to grips with it. He has to change his game plan, which Donny was never good at being quick on his feet. His same old stich is not bringing in the independents. Its tired and old - just like he is. J.D. is a huge drag on the ticket.

Well that's the thing. The Republican Party went "all in" on Trump. The closest thing to a doppelganger was Ron "I'm like Trump only smarter" DeSantis, and his candidacy crashed and burned. Nikki Haley tried the "I like Trump, but we need to get back to the GOP's roots" thing and she crashed and burned. The "we need to get rid of this Trump guy right away" candidates like Christie, Hutchinson, and Pence never even gained enough altitude to crash and burn. The Party of Lincoln is now the Party of Trump, and there's no going back.

Rumor has it (mostly from "Trump Whisperer" Maggie Haberman, but also other sources) that some in the Trump campaign and most Republican leadership both realize he's spiraling out of control. They're desperately hoping he drops the petty insults and focuses on policy, but he's not a policy guy, and not someone who's ever had a great deal of focus. Not only that, but he's purged his "inner circle" of any "disloyal" people, meaning people who will challenge him on strategy. He put his daughter in law and a toady in charge of the RNC, and raided their funds to pay for his legal bills. I've also heard that some big donors are less than willing to throw good money after bad at this point.

This is how you wind up with your candidate rambling on in front of a bored crowd of 4 thousand in Montana, while your opponents barnstormed through Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona and Nevada drawing capacity crowds brimming with enthusiasm for the new, younger ticket.

You can call him a sex abuser, a business fraudster, a crooked charity manager, a tax cheat, an adulterer, and that's just the stuff that's in cold print. Anyone who follows the news and has adequate character assessment skills can add serial liar, sadist, juvenile arrested development case, racist, misogynist, traitor, and sociopath.

You can call him all those things, and he doesn't care. Call him weird? Ooh...Donnie doesn't like that. Say his crowds aren't as big as his opponents' crowds? He REALLY doesn't like that. If his reaction to this first week or so of the new Democratic ticket is any indication, they've got his number. I like Harris' line about being a prosecutor who "knows his type," but they really need to hammer him on things that hurt him the most. His crowd size is one. She also needs to lean into the "say it to my face" thing. When he calls her "Kamabla" she needs to respond with "say it to my face, Donald." Don't call him "Mr. President." Just call him Donald. He HATES it when people don't call him "Mr. President." The more she can put him back on his heels, the more he'll go off script and make mistakes.

We don't have enough time for that "when they go low, we go high" stuff. Hit him where it hurts. The bully hates it when you stand up to them and fight back.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Good stuff. Also, he needs to be confronted continually with his 187 minute TV time on Jan. 6. It is the last thing he wants to be asked about.

 

[starwater]

Great strategy - keep poking so he sounds more and more deranged every day.

 

[LoAmmo]

To be fair, I think a crowd of 4,000 is everybody IN Montana, plus a herd or two of imbeciles from Wyoming.

 

[Elixir]

This aged better than he did. From 2020:

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What I don't understand is how someone can be so angry all the time.
Like stress, it has to take a toll on ones health.
The amount of energy it takes to be mad all the time must be exhausting.

Ignorance can be bliss, keeps cortisol levels low. Orange Fool is not a bright person. I'm sure he struggles constantly with finding ways to hide his insecurities when his inferiority becomes obvious. Typically he spews insults which is all he has. Have you ever heard him have an intelligent thought or make an intelligent suggestion? Maybe his anger stems from knowing how unintelligent he is compared to his rivals when his imbecilic comments get aired.

But Orange Idiot does appear to be showing his age and lifestyle. The Harris Walz rallies are a page out of his own campaign and it must be pissing his off to no end considering his recent best is some failed rallies and a press conference in which he exposed his age and senility for all to see.

 

[steve_bank]

I heard the word unhinged today in the news.

His crazy claim of having a bigger crowd than MLK got attention from some republicans.

I think he has finally blown a fuse.

 

[Elixir]

Have you ever heard him have an intelligent thought or make an intelligent suggestion?

I thought getting his followers to drink bleach and stick UV lights up their asses was a great idea.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

What I don't understand is how someone can be so angry all the time.
Like stress, it has to take a toll on ones health.
The amount of energy it takes to be mad all the time must be exhausting.

I have this fear that Ronny Jackson may be right, and F-head will live another hundred years.