Don't say gay -- oops!

[Metaphor]

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.

I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.

In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?

It refers to what identity is allowed to enter the bathroom.

No. Bathroom signs are not about 'identities'. They indicate the sex for whom the bathroom is designated.

 

[Metaphor]

For example, let's say a human child who self-identifies as female needs to go to the bathroom. The school ushers the child to X bathroom marked with X label. The child says "that's not the right bathroom" and the teacher replies," yes it is. This bathroom marked for X is for X".

LAWSUIT!!! They just taught gender identity.

And they can't show the blind kid which restroom to use.

What?

Because that would be telling him what his gender is.

Non. Telling a blind male that he must use the male toilet is not telling him his 'gender'.

You imagine this as only being anti-trans, but it cuts both ways. It's just as much anti-not-trans.

You have a fundamental error in your thinking. You appear to be incapable of understanding that the sex of a person is not their gender identity.

 

[Metaphor]

Yeah. The signs aren't the problem, but the teachers can't do anything relevant to the signs. "The restrooms are down the hall" is fine. "The ladies room is down the hall on the left" is not.

Only in your fevered imagination. Telling students where the toilets are, and that the toilets are separated by sex, is not teaching them 'gender identity'.

Why do you persist with this?

 

[Gospel]

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.

I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.

In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?

It refers to what identity is allowed to enter the bathroom.

No. Bathroom signs are not about 'identities'. They indicate the sex for whom the bathroom is designated.

You do know the word sex is interchangeable with sexual intercourse or gender right? I presume your use of the word is in relation to Gender.

Jimmy was right. You do live in another universe.

 

[Metaphor]

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.

I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.

In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?

It refers to what identity is allowed to enter the bathroom.

No. Bathroom signs are not about 'identities'. They indicate the sex for whom the bathroom is designated.

You do know the word sex is interchangeable with sexual intercourse or gender right? I presume your use of the word is in relation to Gender.

You haven't told me what you think 'gender' is, so no, I don't know that it is 'interchangeable'.

However, whether there are synonyms or cognates for "sex" or not, a sign on a toilet saying 'boys' means the toilet is for boys. Juvenile human males. Directing male children to the boys toilets is not 'teaching' 'gender identity', despite the fever-dreams of the opponents of the bill.

 

[Gospel]

This is the song that never ends
Yes, it goes on and on, my friends
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was
And they′ll continue singing it forever just because

Edit: Forgot to link where I answered your question which prompted the song that never ends.

Don't say gay -- oops!

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written. I don't...

iidb.org

Yes, I did tell you what I think Gender is.

 

[Gospel]

This is Critical Race Theory and Gender Identity to Desantis.



Trying to appeal to more than just white children in education (with the hip hop music intro) and it is also filled with Gender Identity with all the he's and she's being mentioned throughout the program. Desantis hates lamb Chop.

 

[Arctish]

In what universe do children learn about their chromosomes, hormones, and sex organs before encountering the concept of gender?

In what universe would a Kindergarten teacher expect a child to know their sex but have no idea if they're a boy or a girl?

 

[Metaphor]

In what universe do children learn about their chromosomes, hormones, and sex organs before encountering the concept of gender?

Nothing about chromosomes and hormones, but I knew my sex before I was in kindergarten and I knew I was male and my sisters were female.

In what universe would a Kindergarten teacher expect a child to know their sex but have no idea if they're a boy or a girl?

I don't know what incoherent gender cultist universe you inhabit, but I expect all kindergarteners to know their sex (boy or girl).

 

[Metaphor]

This is the song that never ends
Yes, it goes on and on, my friends
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was
And they′ll continue singing it forever just because

Edit: Forgot to link where I answered your question which prompted the song that never ends.

Don't say gay -- oops!

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written. I don't...

iidb.org

Yes, I did tell you what I think Gender is.

No, you didn't. You defined 'gender identity' and used the word 'gender' in the definition.

What is 'gender'?

 

[Arctish]

In what universe do children learn about their chromosomes, hormones, and sex organs before encountering the concept of gender?

Nothing about chromosomes and hormones, but I knew my sex before I was in kindergarten and I knew I was male and my sisters were female.

In what universe would a Kindergarten teacher expect a child to know their sex but have no idea if they're a boy or a girl?

I don't know what incoherent gender cultist universe you inhabit, but I expect all kindergarteners to know their sex (boy or girl).

Six months ago when I asked you to define gender in a thread you started, you said:

"Gender identity" is a thought in a person's head. The thought is about their sex, or the conflict between their sex and their desired sex (which can include states that are not sexes a mammal can have).

Some people have gender identities. Some people believe "gender identity" should replace (or have primacy over) the category "sex", for all legal, social, and sexual purposes.

So you understand that gender is a matter of perception, and sex is a matter of biology.

I don't expect kids in Kindergarten to know much of anything about biology but typically they have enough self awareness to think of themselves as having a gender. Usually they identify as a boy or a girl, but some might see themselves as both or neither.

 

[Metaphor]

In what universe do children learn about their chromosomes, hormones, and sex organs before encountering the concept of gender?

Nothing about chromosomes and hormones, but I knew my sex before I was in kindergarten and I knew I was male and my sisters were female.

In what universe would a Kindergarten teacher expect a child to know their sex but have no idea if they're a boy or a girl?

I don't know what incoherent gender cultist universe you inhabit, but I expect all kindergarteners to know their sex (boy or girl).

Six months ago when I asked you to define gender in a thread you started, you said:

"Gender identity" is a thought in a person's head. The thought is about their sex, or the conflict between their sex and their desired sex (which can include states that are not sexes a mammal can have).

Some people have gender identities. Some people believe "gender identity" should replace (or have primacy over) the category "sex", for all legal, social, and sexual purposes.

So you understand that gender is a matter of perception, and sex is a matter of biology.

I don't expect kids in Kindergarten to know much of anything about biology

Really? In pre-school, I knew I was male and I even knew the difference in external genitalia between males and females. Does that count as biological knowledge?

but typically they have enough self awareness to think of themselves as having a gender.

Children have enough awareness to know what sex they are, yes. Most children in history knew what sex they were before the concept of 'gender identity' was formulated to apply to humans in ther 1960s. And, without teaching anything about 'gender identity' schoolchildren before the 1960s knew which sexed facility they were supposed to use.

Usually they identify as a boy or a girl, but some might see themselves as both or neither.

So what? What they 'identify' as is irrelevant. They are either male or female, and should be directed to the appropriate sexed facility, if they need such direction.

It beggars belief, honestly, at why people are confused about this.

There's no "oops". Directing children to use the appropriate-sexed facility is not 'teaching' 'gender identity'. The concept of gender does not enter into it.

 

[Arctish]

In what universe do children learn about their chromosomes, hormones, and sex organs before encountering the concept of gender?

Nothing about chromosomes and hormones, but I knew my sex before I was in kindergarten and I knew I was male and my sisters were female.

In what universe would a Kindergarten teacher expect a child to know their sex but have no idea if they're a boy or a girl?

I don't know what incoherent gender cultist universe you inhabit, but I expect all kindergarteners to know their sex (boy or girl).

Six months ago when I asked you to define gender in a thread you started, you said:

"Gender identity" is a thought in a person's head. The thought is about their sex, or the conflict between their sex and their desired sex (which can include states that are not sexes a mammal can have).

Some people have gender identities. Some people believe "gender identity" should replace (or have primacy over) the category "sex", for all legal, social, and sexual purposes.

So you understand that gender is a matter of perception, and sex is a matter of biology.

I don't expect kids in Kindergarten to know much of anything about biology

Really? In pre-school, I knew I was male and I even knew the difference in external genitalia between males and females. Does that count as biological knowledge?

Sure is.

External genitalia is probably the first thing kids learn about biological sex. And back when I was a kid, before leash laws were everywhere, seeing 2 dogs mating was the second.

but typically they have enough self awareness to think of themselves as having a gender.

Children have enough awareness to know what sex they are, yes. Most children in history knew what sex they were before the concept of 'gender identity' was formulated to apply to humans in ther 1960s. And, without teaching anything about 'gender identity' schoolchildren before the 1960s knew which sexed facility they were supposed to use.

Schoolchildren raised in European cultures and their clones, perhaps. Euro-Christian traditions are very strict about segregation of the sexes, gender roles, and the traditions of Patriarchy and misogyny.

Schoolchildren raised in cultures with broader concepts of sex and gender, especially those with both clear gender roles and specific words to describe men who live as women, women who live as men, and Two Spirits persons, wouldn't always know their gender until later in life.

Usually they identify as a boy or a girl, but some might see themselves as both or neither.

So what? What they 'identify' as is irrelevant. They are either male or female, and should be directed to the appropriate sexed facility, if they need such direction.

It beggars belief, honestly, at why people are confused about this.

There's no "oops". Directing children to use the appropriate-sexed facility is not 'teaching' 'gender identity'. The concept of gender does not enter into it.

It does enter into it.

We used to force kids we decided were boys to act according to what society deemed appropriate for male children. Boys who acted like girls were brutalized. We did the same to girls who were 'tomboys' although they were usually spared the worst until puberty.

Steering kids to the 'correct' bathroom is teaching them gender identity. Punishing them if they go into the 'wrong' one, or have the 'wrong' hairstyle, or wear the 'wrong' accessories, is gender identity enforced by school authority. Apparently the new Florida law makes that illegal.

 

[Metaphor]

Sure is.

External genitalia is probably the first thing kids learn about biological sex. And back when I was a kid, before leash laws were everywhere, seeing 2 dogs mating was the second.

And teaching about sex is not teaching about gender identity, if such things need to be taught.

And directing a child to the appropriate sexed facility isn't even 'teaching' at all.

but typically they have enough self awareness to think of themselves as having a gender.

Children have enough awareness to know what sex they are, yes. Most children in history knew what sex they were before the concept of 'gender identity' was formulated to apply to humans in ther 1960s. And, without teaching anything about 'gender identity' schoolchildren before the 1960s knew which sexed facility they were supposed to use.

Schoolchildren raised in European cultures and their clones, perhaps.

Like Florida is.

Euro-Christian traditions are very strict about segregation of the sexes, gender roles, and the traditions of Patriarchy and misogyny.

Schoolchildren raised in cultures with broader concepts of sex and gender, especially those with both clear gender roles and specific words to describe men who live as women, women who live as men, and Two Spirits persons, wouldn't always know their gender until later in life.

So...what?

Nobody is suggesting that children need to know their 'gender'. In fact, this law specifically says you shouldn't instruct on 'gender identity'. So what's the problem?

Usually they identify as a boy or a girl, but some might see themselves as both or neither.

So what? What they 'identify' as is irrelevant. They are either male or female, and should be directed to the appropriate sexed facility, if they need such direction.

It beggars belief, honestly, at why people are confused about this.

There's no "oops". Directing children to use the appropriate-sexed facility is not 'teaching' 'gender identity'. The concept of gender does not enter into it.

It does enter into it.

It simply does not.

We used to force kids we decided were boys

Nature decided which children were boys.

to act according to what society deemed appropriate for male children. Boys who acted like girls were brutalized. We did the same to girls who were 'tomboys' although they were usually spared the worst until puberty.

Yes, I was a feminine boy. I know what it was like.

Steering kids to the 'correct' bathroom is teaching them gender identity.

In what universe? Bathrooms are designated by sex.

Punishing them if they go into the 'wrong' one,

Yes, males going into the female toilets are going into the wrong toilets.

or have the 'wrong' hairstyle, or wear the 'wrong' accessories, is gender identity enforced by school authority. Apparently the new Florida law makes that illegal.

Telling males they must use the male facilities is not teaching about 'gender identity'. Male is a sex designation. The gender identity of the student, if they have one, is completely irrelevant and does not need to be considered.

But - and I'm honestly still completely baffled by the premise of this thread - we will see if some school somewhere gets sued successfully, under the auspices of this law, for having sex-segregated bathrooms. Telling male children that they need to use the male bathroom (if any such child needs to be told) is not 'teaching' 'gender identity'.

 

[ZiprHead]

But - and I'm honestly still completely baffled by the premise of this thread

No one here believes that.

- we will see if some school somewhere gets sued successfully, under the auspices of this law, for having sex-segregated bathrooms. Telling male children that they need to use the male bathroom (if any such child needs to be told) is not 'teaching' 'gender identity'.

Maybe you should tell the Florida legislators.

 

[Gospel]

This is the song that never ends
Yes, it goes on and on, my friends
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was
And they′ll continue singing it forever just because

Edit: Forgot to link where I answered your question which prompted the song that never ends.

Don't say gay -- oops!

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written. I don't...

iidb.org

Yes, I did tell you what I think Gender is.

No, you didn't. You defined 'gender identity' and used the word 'gender' in the definition.

What is 'gender'?

My mistake, I meant I did tell you what Gender Identity is (not gender). You didn't ask me what gender is.

Edit: And again I'm using the oxford dictionary definition of Gender so you need not ask me but just google it.

 

[Metaphor]

But - and I'm honestly still completely baffled by the premise of this thread

No one here believes that.

- we will see if some school somewhere gets sued successfully, under the auspices of this law, for having sex-segregated bathrooms. Telling male children that they need to use the male bathroom (if any such child needs to be told) is not 'teaching' 'gender identity'.

Maybe you should tell the Florida legislators.

Tell them what? That leftists on a message board are fantasising that sexed toilets are somehow forbidden under this legislation?

 

[Metaphor]

This is the song that never ends
Yes, it goes on and on, my friends
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was
And they′ll continue singing it forever just because

Edit: Forgot to link where I answered your question which prompted the song that never ends.

Don't say gay -- oops!

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written. I don't...

iidb.org

Yes, I did tell you what I think Gender is.

No, you didn't. You defined 'gender identity' and used the word 'gender' in the definition.

What is 'gender'?

My mistake, I meant I did tell you what Gender Identity is (not gender). You didn't ask me what gender is.

Edit: And again I'm using the oxford dictionary definition of Gender so you need not ask me but just google it.

There are many definitions of 'gender' in that dictionary. You'll need to tell me which you mean.

 

[Gospel]

Gender:

1.
either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.

Gender Identity:

The psychological sense of the self as masculine or feminine.

Sex:

a. Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions; (hence) the members of these categories viewed as a group; the males or females of a particular species, esp. the human race, considered collectively.

Good grief.

 

[Playball40]

There is nothing in the law that says you can't say gay. It explicitly says “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3.”

You just cant identify anyone as Mr, or Mrs, or identify anyone as a boy or girl. That's all. Perfectly normal stuff.

Carry on

It says more than that. It allows for the parents to object to just about ANYTHING at all grade levels and requires teachers and counselors to betray student confidences if they confess they might think they are gay or transgendered. And considering teachers DON'T discuss their sex lives with kids, it was a bullshit attempt to erase the LBGTQ community.