Drag Shows

[Oleg]

Really? Do you think it would be immediately apparent to say, a police officer who stumbled upon the nude, post-surgical corpse of a trans woman that the deceased had been born with, perhaps a penis and testicles?

Yeah know, one of the major copes of the trans movement is that having bottom surgery makes you indistinguishable from your identified gender. Just, nah.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Good grief. A brain abberation does not change your sex.

A brain aberration? The body is nothing but a husk without the brain!

Why is it that we don't know the sexual orientation of people at birth? Congrats, you've given birth to a gay boy. Yes, he was born with a penis, but it is a gay penis. Dangling bits and all, yet, the dangling bits get used all the wrong ways by gays. Where is that coming from? You can't change your sex!

 

[Oleg]

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Good grief. A brain abberation does not change your sex.

A brain aberration? The body is nothing but a husk without the brain!

Why is it that we don't know the sexual orientation of people at birth? Congrats, you've given birth to a gay boy. Yes, he was born with a penis, but it is a gay penis. Dangling bits and all, yet, the dangling bits get used all the wrong ways by gays. Where is that coming from? You can't change your sex!

Again, the incoherence of gender ideology. What does gay or lesbian - same sex attraction - have to do with transgenderism? Nothing.

 

[RVonse]

Males are not females, females are not males. Males cannot become females. Sperm producers will never produce ova. Testiculators will never be menstruators. This is an evolutionary divide that spans the entirety of the mammalian class, indeed the vast majority of the phylum of chordata. Obscuring the meaning of the term that describes the adult female half of the human species isn't going to make that divide any less real.

The aforementioned sounds exactly as Ben Shipero, Jordan Peterson, Ann Coulter, or other extreme right wing media have been saying some time now. Nor I do not dissagree with you, but I am very surprised with your position. And finding it very interesting that it is being said on (what I consider) a fairly progressive forum.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Males are not females, females are not males. Males cannot become females. Sperm producers will never produce ova. Testiculators will never be menstruators. This is an evolutionary divide that spans the entirety of the mammalian class, indeed the vast majority of the phylum of chordata. Obscuring the meaning of the term that describes the adult female half of the human species isn't going to make that divide any less real.

Nor I do not dissagree with you,

???

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Good grief. A brain abberation does not change your sex.

A brain aberration? The body is nothing but a husk without the brain!

Why is it that we don't know the sexual orientation of people at birth? Congrats, you've given birth to a gay boy. Yes, he was born with a penis, but it is a gay penis. Dangling bits and all, yet, the dangling bits get used all the wrong ways by gays. Where is that coming from? You can't change your sex!

Again, the incoherence of gender ideology. What does gay or lesbian - same sex attraction - have to do with transgenderism? Nothing.

Nothing other than the dysfunctional use of genitals they were born with.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363460719876835

For example, trans older adults with dementia may forget they transitioned and reidentify with their sex/gender assigned at birth or may experience ‘gender confusion.’

Identify with? Or simply go with what their memories are? Because dementia tends to selectively strip away newer memories. (Which can result in things like people who are living a language other than their mother tongue can end up unable to communicate with caregivers because they revert to mother tongue only.)

 

[Toni]

An appeal to magic?

No. There's nothing magical about it. I am also of a certain age. I don't identify as that age. I just am that age.

Just saying something does not make it so.

Have you ever actually investigated your genome empirically?

Yes, but I don't have to. I am of the sex that produces small, motile gametes and that was known before I was born.

No, it wasn't 'known.' It was assumed, based upon whatever testing your mother allowed to be performed. Once you were born, your apparent sex was in agreement with whatever testing was previously performed and there was no need to conduct further examination.

But unless you have had testing to demonstrate that you actually produce motile sperm, you don't KNOW that you do. Unless you have had genetic testing done, you do not KNOW that you have XY chromosomes and not some other configuration.

What you believe to be true about yourself likely comports with observable traits and would likely also agree with any genetic testing you had performed or if you submitted a sample of ejaculate. But you don't KNOW as a fact that this is so. You ASSUME that it is so. Your feelings about your sex and about your sexual orientation are in agreement with your apparent sex. But you do not KNOW as a fact what your karotype is or whether or not you produce sperm or if that sperm is motile.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

FYI, that would be identifying as a male.

I think there's a difference.

"Just am"--true, but of no importance. If it were different it would be a so-what. I do not identify as hazel-eyed. In fact, some say I'm blue-eyed. I'm not sure myself (flawed color vision) and I'll go with what the majority of people say my eyes are.
"Identify as"--of importance to the person.

However, I would be quite surprised if he takes a just-am view of being male.

 

[TomC]

At the risk of derailing this trans derail...

I still haven't heard anyone explain why drag is inherently problematic.

Yeah, kids should be kept away from bawdy sexual performances. They should also be kept away from violence, like "Transformers" and "Fast and Furious".

But neither drag nor driving cars is inherently problematic.

A dude in a dress reading Dr Seuss to 1st graders is less of a problem than someone taking them to a typical action hero movie.

IMNSHO.
Think of the children.
Tom

 

[Oleg]

What you believe to be true about yourself likely comports with observable traits and would likely also agree with any genetic testing you had performed or if you submitted a sample of ejaculate. But you don't KNOW as a fact that this is so. You ASSUME that it is so. Your feelings about your sex and about your sexual orientation are in agreement with your apparent sex. But you do not KNOW as a fact what your karotype is or whether or not you produce sperm or if that sperm is motile.

Damn, post-modernism is so stupid. Just f-you Michel Foucault.

 

[Toni]

At the risk of derailing this trans derail...

I still haven't heard anyone explain why drag is inherently problematic.

Yeah, kids should be kept away from bawdy sexual performances. They should also be kept away from violence, like "Transformers" and "Fast and Furious".

But neither drag nor driving cars is inherently problematic.

A dude in a dress reading Dr Seuss to 1st graders is less of a problem than someone taking them to a typical action hero movie.

IMNSHO.
Think of the children.
Tom

Years ago, my sibling posed the question: Why do people so vehemently object to children seeing sexual situations on a screen but do not object to the same children witnessing violence on a screen?

My answer at the time was: People are less afraid that children will imitate the violence than the sex.

I'm not sure that my answer would really stand up to much scrutiny.

 

[Oleg]

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Good grief. A brain abberation does not change your sex.

A brain aberration? The body is nothing but a husk without the brain!

Why is it that we don't know the sexual orientation of people at birth? Congrats, you've given birth to a gay boy. Yes, he was born with a penis, but it is a gay penis. Dangling bits and all, yet, the dangling bits get used all the wrong ways by gays. Where is that coming from? You can't change your sex!

Again, the incoherence of gender ideology. What does gay or lesbian - same sex attraction - have to do with transgenderism? Nothing.

Nothing other than the dysfunctional use of genitals they were born with.

So incoherent.

 

[RVonse]

we aren't the gatekeepers of masculinity.

Totally disagree. Females are the gatekeepers by deciding who to mate with. Females choose masulinity and only those with masculine traits. All other lines die out.

 

[Oleg]

I still haven't heard anyone explain why drag is inherently problematic.

Yeah, kids should be kept away from bawdy sexual performances.

That's it. At least from me. Sexual drag for adults, not kids. However,

 

[RVonse]

Incidentally, if the argument is "we should do things as most mammals do", we should not be wearing clothes at all, let alone building strictly but arbitrarily gender-divided clothing sections at the mall and instigating moral panic if a man wears a dress or women pants at the library. No other mammal would give a flying shit what we want to wear. That's religion, not biology, and only we do the religion thing.

Actshooally... You might want to think about this some. You know who drives and monitors GENDER binary divisions? Because it's not women. Women have been accepting of gender non-conforming women time out of mind, and women have always been more tolerant of gender non-conforming men than men are.

It is men who have defined and enforced gender roles, and who have bound women to subservient roles throughout history, and it is men who continue to police the boundaries of masculinity - ejecting with force those men who do not meet their arbitrary standards.

The men enforce the gender roles socially. But the women enforce gender roles reproductively by who they select.

 

[Oleg]

One of the upsides of accepting a trans identified man as a woman is it helps to achieve gender parity for sexually violent offenses.

 

[Metaphor]

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

FYI, that would be identifying as a male.

How lucky for me that my thoughts correlate with reality, then.

You mean how your neurological processes correspond to your dangling parts, at least in part?

"Neurological processes"?

My thoughts? Can you please let me know what calling my thoughts, "neurological processes", adds to anything?

 

[Metaphor]

No, it wasn't 'known.' It was assumed, based upon whatever testing your mother allowed to be performed. Once you were born, your apparent sex was in agreement with whatever testing was previously performed and there was no need to conduct further examination.

But unless you have had testing to demonstrate that you actually produce motile sperm, you don't KNOW that you do.

I don't need to know that I produce motile gametes. I am of the sex that is organised around producing motile gametes.

Unless you have had genetic testing done, you do not KNOW that you have XY chromosomes and not some other configuration.

Whether I had some difference of sexual development would not change the fact that I am of the sex organised around producing small motile gametes.

What you believe to be true about yourself likely comports with observable traits and would likely also agree with any genetic testing you had performed or if you submitted a sample of ejaculate. But you don't KNOW as a fact that this is so. You ASSUME that it is so. Your feelings about your sex and about your sexual orientation are in agreement with your apparent sex. But you do not KNOW as a fact what your karotype is or whether or not you produce sperm or if that sperm is motile.

Irrelevant whether I as an individual produce sperm. I am of the sex organised around producing small mobile gametes.

 

[Metaphor]

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Good grief. A brain abberation does not change your sex.

A brain aberration? The body is nothing but a husk without the brain!

Why is it that we don't know the sexual orientation of people at birth? Congrats, you've given birth to a gay boy. Yes, he was born with a penis, but it is a gay penis. Dangling bits and all, yet, the dangling bits get used all the wrong ways by gays. Where is that coming from? You can't change your sex!

Again, the incoherence of gender ideology. What does gay or lesbian - same sex attraction - have to do with transgenderism? Nothing.

Nothing other than the dysfunctional use of genitals they were born with.

I haven't used other people's money to mutilate my genitals.