Drag Shows

[Toni]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

 

[Metaphor]

Is it delusion or dishonesty that motivates you to continue to assert that people are saying thoughts in one’s head determines your sex?

You keep saying it over and over when you claim brains ("it's the neurobiology, science-ignorer!") matter to determining what sex people are.

 

[Metaphor]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, you can lead a horse to water...

 

[Politesse]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

An appeal to magic? You say it, therefore it is?

We fellow forum posters have no reason to believe that you are male in any sense; all we know is that you identify as such on this forum.

 

[Metaphor]

Oh, and Jacob Tobia wanting to be 'desired'

No one is "segregated by sex";

Of course they are - or were.

if we're talking about social identity, we're having a conversation about gender. And if we're saying "people of this category get to use this special room, but only people in that category get to do this ritual together", we're talking about social identity. How we choose to define, respond to, and exert political power over perceptions of sex is a purely cultural question, which different societies can and have devised different solutions to. Drag shows have only existed for two hundred years, they are not connected to the scientific discussion of biological sex traits except obliquely as part of our wider cultural conversation about gender.

And I do agree that transwomen are biologically female, at least in some respects. Your mind is no less a part of your body than any other part of you.

By 'mind' I assume you mean 'brain', and no. Having certain thoughts in your head does not change your sex or cause you to be the opposite sex.

So you are still ignoring studies which have identified structures in the brain that more closely resemble the sex the trans person is claiming than the sex they were assigned at birth?

What about them? Gay men have some brain structures that more closely resemble those of straight women than they do other men. Gay men are not women.

You still seem to be struggling over personal identity... and the basis of it.

My experience based on two people that I have known that suffered traumatic brain trauma is that self-identity is up to the central nervous system, and utterly out of our self conscious control. Neither of the people thought they were the opposite sex after the injury. However, their personalities changed tremendously. My reserved grandmother became a love smitten teen while a person I went to school went from wild alpha male to quiet, simple, and reserved. The original versions of these people never returned. So we have one body each and two personalities that didn't overlap.

So, if that can happen, and it has happened enough, the question becomes, why is it so hard to accept that there is a neurological construct that can develop for some people that make them think they are the opposite gender.

I do not doubt some trans-identified people wish to be, or become the opposite sex.

Again, you are talking about wishing, I'm talking about being. You continue to ignore that.

We know there are some macroscopic differences between gender. We know there are psychological differences (when baselining) between gender. Why can't you make the jump to understanding that it is almost assuredly true that there are neurological portions of it to? You (and others) seem quite intent on wanting to draw a dividing line between genders, but when it comes to neurology, you suddenly become numb and disinterested in the science.

Because your thoughts do not determine your sex.

Regarding sexual attraction, we have people that have any number of fetishes... none of which anyone selected. How much of our preferences aren't remotely selected? We certainly don't choose our neuroses. We find things pleasing or unpleasing because our brain says we do. And that is all neurological. Chemical and physical reactions to stimuli we have no control over. Yet, for some reason, you think you get it all.

Your thoughts do not determine your sex.

Just to continue the riff, your thoughts do not determine your sexual orientation either.

What determines my sexual orientation is my sex (male) and the target of my sexual thoughts (other men).

 

[Metaphor]

An appeal to magic?

No. There's nothing magical about it. I am also of a certain age. I don't identify as that age. I just am that age.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

FYI, that would be identifying as a male.

 

[Oleg]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

That your brain structure determines how you act and think is certainly true. Remember poor Phineas Gage. And psychopaths. No doubt that trans identified persons have some structure or neuopathway causing dysphoria. After all, there are people whose brains make them dysphoric for certain body parts. There was a women who poured Draino into her eyes because she identified as blind. But a trans identified man isn't a women. Unlike the Draino lady, he can't change his biology.

 

[Politesse]

An appeal to magic?

No. There's nothing magical about it. I am also of a certain age. I don't identify as that age. I just am that age.

Just saying something does not make it so.

Have you ever actually investigated your genome empirically?

 

[Metaphor]

An appeal to magic?

No. There's nothing magical about it. I am also of a certain age. I don't identify as that age. I just am that age.

Just saying something does not make it so.

Have you ever actually investigated your genome empirically?

Yes, but I don't have to. I am of the sex that produces small, motile gametes and that was known before I was born.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

That your brain structure determines how you act and think is certainly true. Remember poor Phineas Gage. And psychopaths. No doubt that trans identified persons have some structure or neuopathway causing dysphoria After all, there are people whose brains make them dysphoric for certain body parts. There was a women who poured Draino into her eyes because she identified as blind. But a trans identified man isn't a women. Unlike the Draino lady, he can't change his biology.

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

 

[Metaphor]

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

FYI, that would be identifying as a male.

How lucky for me that my thoughts correlate with reality, then.

 

[Politesse]

An appeal to magic?

No. There's nothing magical about it. I am also of a certain age. I don't identify as that age. I just am that age.

Prove it.

An appeal to magic?

No. There's nothing magical about it. I am also of a certain age. I don't identify as that age. I just am that age.

Just saying something does not make it so.

Have you ever actually investigated your genome empirically?

Yes, but I don't have to. I am of the sex that produces small, motile gametes and that was known before I was born.

Are you defining the possession of spermatoza as the definition of "male"?

 

[Metaphor]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

That your brain structure determines how you act and think is certainly true. Remember poor Phineas Gage. And psychopaths. No doubt that trans identified persons have some structure or neuopathway causing dysphoria After all, there are people whose brains make them dysphoric for certain body parts. There was a women who poured Draino into her eyes because she identified as blind. But a trans identified man isn't a women. Unlike the Draino lady, he can't change his biology.

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Of course it is excluded from the conversation. When a dead body is examined, there is no brain activity at all. Yet the sex of that dead body is very much able to be determined.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

I do not identify as male. I just am male.

FYI, that would be identifying as a male.

How lucky for me that my thoughts correlate with reality, then.

You mean how your neurological processes correspond to your dangling parts, at least in part?

 

[Oleg]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

That your brain structure determines how you act and think is certainly true. Remember poor Phineas Gage. And psychopaths. No doubt that trans identified persons have some structure or neuopathway causing dysphoria After all, there are people whose brains make them dysphoric for certain body parts. There was a women who poured Draino into her eyes because she identified as blind. But a trans identified man isn't a women. Unlike the Draino lady, he can't change his biology.

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Good grief. A brain abberation does not change your sex.

 

[Oleg]

Of course it is excluded from the conversation. When a dead body is examined, there is no brain activity at all. Yet the sex of that dead body is very much able to be determined.

Which is why the gender ideology is so incoherent.

 

[Oleg]

You mean how your neurological processes correspond to your dangling parts, at least in part?

Well, that's interesting. A man has no neurological processes associated with female body parts.

 

[Toni]

Brain structures obviously play an enormous role in how we perceive ourselves, who we are attracted to, etc. Sexual orientation, sexuality, sexual identification have basis in brain structures. Not, as you are so fond of saying: it's just thoughts in your head. It's not. It's neurobiology.

Thoughts are caused by brain-states. So what? You keep saying 'it's neurobiology'. So what? My thoughts don't change my ethnicity, or my sex, or my age.

Your neurobiology likely determines your sexual orientation.

Your neurobiology affects your perceptions of who you are. Including your identity as male.

That your brain structure determines how you act and think is certainly true. Remember poor Phineas Gage. And psychopaths. No doubt that trans identified persons have some structure or neuopathway causing dysphoria After all, there are people whose brains make them dysphoric for certain body parts. There was a women who poured Draino into her eyes because she identified as blind. But a trans identified man isn't a women. Unlike the Draino lady, he can't change his biology.

You mean part of their biology? Again, dangling bits, dangling bits, dangling bits. If the neurology says they are in conflict with their genitals, that would imply that part of them is one gender, part of them is the other gender. You keep crying biology, but want to pretend the part of the body that makes us who we are... is excluded from the conversation... or even mocked. Stupid brain! What does it know?!

Of course it is excluded from the conversation. When a dead body is examined, there is no brain activity at all. Yet the sex of that dead body is very much able to be determined.

Really? Do you think it would be immediately apparent to say, a police officer who stumbled upon the nude, post-surgical corpse of a trans woman that the deceased had been born with, perhaps a penis and testicles?