Drag Shows

[Emily Lake]

I think you are correct that more children are expressing trans identity because it’s more openly discuses and potentially more accepted.

But I also believe Emily when she says her niece received little counseling and that a trans family member thought that this was potentially too rushed and the wrong path for them. I also wonder if, with different parents and in a different community a child like I was could be pushed into thinking that they were maybe trans because they liked things that society says are appropriate for the other gender. I was told by other kids. - couple of teachers a d even siblings that what I liked/wanted/ who I was was not female appropriate. As it was I pushed back and realized that it was assigning gender to activities abd clothing and interests and talents and colors that was ducked up. But i
am particularly stubborn and sure of who I am.

If you put enough elephants in front of enough keyboards with larger than average size keys, given enough time, you are going to wonder what you were thinking.

That aside, I am 100% certain there are bad doctors, bad psychologists, bad therapists (not morally, but just not really good) out there. I'm willing to believe that there are children getting bad counseling. I am 100% certain that there are even doctors, psychologists, therapists out there that have an agenda... who think they are doing good but aren't. They are out there. And there are parents that need to manage their children's health care all the more diligently. And further, there are likely people that have mental health issues that make them prone to suggestion, without even suggesting things to them, that could sway in that direction.

However, Emily Lake isn't suggesting that this is possible, she is saying that there is peer and social pressure to be trans, which is utterly ridiculous. She is raising the 'serious' issue of ROGD... an acronym that has no clinical backing behind it. I can't speak for her family members. I certainly have less than no information about them. And it is anecdotal, at best. It is not a representative picture of how transgender treatment is handled in the US. It is just a dot. Not unimportant, but not representative. And I personally do not like people shoving their asses into the private care of children, without any reasonable amount of information to move forward with. I hate doctors, parents, family, therapists being targeted and demonized.

Emily isn't herself demonizing people... actively. But this ROGD bullshit is definitely doing so, and she's tugging that rope. Hiding it behind a false cloak of clinicality doesn't make its ugliness any less apparent.

I think you're making an incorrect assumption.

I do no think that the large increase in minors identifying as trans is a "fad" or that they're being pressured into it. I'm saying exactly what you said - there are people that have mental health issues that make them prone to suggestion.

That the underlying dynamic behind a social contagion. It's not a desire to be one of the "cool kids", it's not peer pressure. It's impressionability in a group of people who are still in the process of developing their own identities, and who are susceptible to certain kinds of ideas. This is something that is more common in teenage girls than in boys, although boys are not immune.

It's the same dynamic involved with the clusters of teenage girls who are cutters. It tends to cluster among school groups and peer groups, even when it's not seen as a "desirable" thing. It showed up at rates higher than the prior baseline when there started to be a lot of media attention on it, and a lot of talking about it. It's not like these kids had their friends saying "try cutting on yourself, it's cool" - nothing of the sort. But they are at a fragile period of their mental development, and they are susceptible.

The same thing happened when I was younger, with anorexia. The same thing happened with repressed memories.

Repressed memories is probably the best parallel. Some few people have genuinely experienced trauma that their brain has suppressed and hidden from their conscious minds. It's a defense mechanism. The concept of repressed memories isn't in and of itself flawed. But there was a period when repressed memories gained a lot of media attention, it was an idea featured in a lot of TV shows, fiction, etc. It was talked about. And a lot of young people - especially girls - self-identified as having repressed memories. They felt like the had repressed memories, and they sought out the help of psychologists and therapists to help them recover those memories. And the therapists, who truly believed they were helping those young people... well, they found repressed memories. The overwhelming majority of those recovered memories, however, were false. They were false because those young people were susceptible to the idea, to the concept, and they latched onto it.

When I talk about transgender identities as being social contagion, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not saying it's a fad or a game or that it's peer pressure. I'm saying that a lot of young people, particularly girls, are susceptible to this sort of idea. And that just ass in the case of recovered memories, the therapists rushing to help them are ultimately reinforcing a false belief.

That in no way implies that no young people actually have deep-rooted gender dysphoria. Some certainly do, just as some people genuinely did have repressed memories.

 

[Emily Lake]

Society has been mucking around with this exact hormonal shift that I describe (from endogenous hormones to *none*) for well over 300,000 years, since before society existed, since we were apes that knew "no balls" made changes happen.

Subjecting young boys to largely involuntary castration isn't really the same thing. And while there have been some few people who were treated well after begin castrated, and some people who have voluntarily sought it... it remains true that the vast majority of human castrations throughout history have been something that those boys were forced into, without their consent.

 

[Emily Lake]

Having gone through the onslaught of adolescence, it would not have been nearly so simple as that. Hormones affect how you feel. And trust me when I say that I was raised by parents who did not believe in quitting, especially when, to their way of thinking, it would involve ‘wasting a lot of time and mine for what? So you could change your mind????’

I am NOT against puberty blockers after AND in conjunction with careful screening and ongoing counseling with psychiatrists and psychologists with expertise in gender issues and adolescent health.

And we don't know that didn't happen, only that Emily wasn't aware of it happening.

Sure sure. Neither was her mother, nor her father, nor was her older transgender sibling.

Seriously - why are you guys making the malicious assumption that I am not in close contact with my family, that we don't have close relationships? Just stop.

 

[Jarhyn]

Society has been mucking around with this exact hormonal shift that I describe (from endogenous hormones to *none*) for well over 300,000 years, since before society existed, since we were apes that knew "no balls" made changes happen.

Subjecting young boys to largely involuntary castration isn't really the same thing. And while there have been some few people who were treated well after begin castrated, and some people who have voluntarily sought it... it remains true that the vast majority of human castrations throughout history have been something that those boys were forced into, without their consent.

Yes, it is. It is directly exposing the effects of castration on human physiology.

You can argue that it should not have been done, but you cannot deny the reality of what it exposes about human health and hormones.

The point is that we understand the effects.

And of the Hijra they were voluntary.

 

[Jarhyn]

I don't think that Emily is talking about clinicians spending months/years dealing with possible autism--a lifelong conditions or mental health issues such as depression and anxiety--extremely common! in lieu of treating gender dysmorphia. I think she's talking about the difficulty in sorting out these issues especially in teens, and especially when the teen has multiple issues.

She's also speaking about her family member, whom she loves and is very concerned about and who is not alone in being concerned that this family member is being rushed into irreversible breast removal when there are other underlying issues that are more likely to be causing the distress her family member is going through. At least one other family member, who is trans, btw, is in agreement with Emily.

Obviously I have no idea as to the details of the situation. I don't know Emily IRL or her family, either. But I do hear that she's writing from a place of love and concern, not of bigotry.

Missouri AG's regulation bans trans treatment for adults with depression

The rule prohibits patients from seeking care unless they've met various requirements, including having mental health issues "treated and resolved."

www.businessinsider.com

You can claim what you want, but this is where that rhetoric is coming from.

You've got it backwards.

That rhetoric is what idiotic partisans end up with when they stop using reason and compassion for a complex topic.

Indeed. Idiotic partisans use that rhetoric. So why does it look like you have used it on several occasions in the past, including recently in the thread?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is drag so unimportant that this thread must revert to a trans derail?

Drag isn't important to me particularly, I don't care what people wear or why(if anything).
Tom

Because the only reason they're an issue is part of the right's effort to use trans as a way to divide the left.

 

[Emily Lake]

Is drag so unimportant that this thread must revert to a trans derail?

Drag isn't important to me particularly, I don't care what people wear or why(if anything).
Tom

It's because drag isn't the problem in the first place.

I mean, I personally dislike drag because I view it as the sex equivalent of a minstrel show. I know other people don't agree with me, and that's fine. That's my objection to drag in general.

But the issues around drag related to the idiotic laws being passed are all actually about transgender stuff. It's about the content being taught to children, in what venues, and to what degree. And it's a matter of what parents consider age-appropriate material for their kids.

But for the people here on IIDB... that's not the core of the conflict.

 

[Emily Lake]

Here's some "help" but you're likely going to reject the examples because of your ideology. Kid wants to get vaccinated against covid. School, doctors, and parents are all in favor of it. Conservatives want to ban the vaccine, i.e. force the kid not to be vaccinated, and possibly get more sick.

It would behoove you to not make assumptions.

I am vaccinated, I generally a proponent of vaccines.

 

[Emily Lake]

Indeed. Idiotic partisans use that rhetoric. So why does it look like you have used it on several occasions in the past, including recently in the thread?

Because you're looking through a biased lens, and you see what you have convinced yourself you ought to see.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here's some "help" but you're likely going to reject the examples because of your ideology. Kid wants to get vaccinated against covid. School, doctors, and parents are all in favor of it. Conservatives want to ban the vaccine, i.e. force the kid not to be vaccinated, and possibly get more sick.

It would behoove you to not make assumptions.

I am vaccinated, I generally a proponent of vaccines.

And that doesn't explain anything about your (in)ability to accept that example.

 

[ZiprHead]

Pretty straightforward - go read any Planned Parenthood page on how they deal with it. They don't require any evaluation, and in most cases they will write you a prescription for cross-sex hormones or for puberty blockers on the same day as your first appointment.

Here's Planned Parenthoods pages on gender. I can find no references to evaluation and treatment at all. I suspect you've swallowed some BS by someone and decided to regurgitate it here.

Sex and Gender Identity

There’s more to gender than sex assigned at birth. What's biological sex or assigned sex? What does Female, Male, and Intersex mean?

www.plannedparenthood.org

Gender Affirming Care

www.plannedparenthood.org

What to Expect on Your First Visit?​

We offer gender affirming hormone care for patients 18 years and older at all of our health centers and via telehealth. At your first visit, a Planned Parenthood clinician will:

• Review your medical history, including your sexual and surgical history and current health practices
• Measure your weight and blood pressure
• Discuss your transition goals
• Draw your blood to watch for potential side effects of hormones
• Explain how to take hormones and answer any questions you might have

If hormone therapy is a good fit for you, you'll receive a prescription that you can take to a pharmacy.

Hormone Therapy - First Visit

What to expect on your first visit for gender affirming hormone therapy.

www.plannedparenthood.org

What to Expect on Your First Visit and Beyond​

Before you visit, please call to make an appointment and request gender affirming hormone therapy.

In most cases your clinician will be able to prescribe hormones the same day as your first visit. No letter from a mental health provider is required.

Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy

www.plannedparenthood.org

Your First Appointment​

At your first visit we will assess the following:

• Height, weight, and blood pressure
• Document your gender identity, pronouns, sex assigned at birth in your medical record. We ask all patients this information regardless of the reason for visit in order to provide the best care
• Review your medical history, medications, allergies, medical diagnoses (physical and mental health), surgical history, sexual and reproductive history and practices, family history
• Discuss your medical transition goals
• Review and sign the informed consent including expected changes with hormone therapy, invite and answer questions
• Blood lab work to monitor for potential side effects of hormone use

You will not be asked to change into a medical gown or have an exam unless you request an exam for a concern. All services including annual wellness checks (pelvic exams and cervical cancer screening), STD testing and treatment, HIV testing, pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), clinical chest exams, cervical cancer screenings, human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccines, pregnancy testing, abortion care and other health care services are also available to all.

A typical initial visit can last up to 1 hour. Follow-up visits are generally shorter.

A clinician will work with you to determine a plan of care to best meet your goals. In most cases, the clinician will be able to send a prescription to your pharmacy the same day as your visit unless there are special conditions or contraindications.

Preparing for your Hormone Therapy Visit

www.plannedparenthood.org

What to Expect at your First Visit​

​

When booking, you'll be asked about your legal name and gender, as well as the way you identify, pronouns you use, and the name you prefer to be called. We do this so we can ensure we treat you with the highest level of courtesy.

During your appointment, our staff will collect a comprehensive medical history. You'll meet your clinician, who will get to know more about where you are in your process and the changes you hope to see, discuss with you the informed consent process, and will review both the positive effects and possible risk factors for hormone therapy. The office staff will collect routine lab work to make sure you are a healthy candidate for hormone therapy. Sometimes this lab work includes a blood draw. You do not need to fast in advance of getting your blood drawn.

Most patients are prescribed hormones that day. Our clinicians will work with you to help you decide what is best for you.

You said, and I quote, "They don't require any evaluation". There is evaluation included in all those scenarios.

 

[IIDB Staff]

This thread is being temporarily closed while staff reviews whether there is any content about THE TOPIC instead of the people posting.