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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

Cheerful Charlie

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live. This millenia before Israel or Islam. You knoweth not what you babble.
 

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god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?
 

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syed said:
which begs the question "is slavery progress?"
human made progress because of slavery
back to your main idea that slavery was necessary, slavery could have been theorized it didn't have to be implemented; slavery isn't necessary for progress.

thats a good idea , just theorized economic that will create millions of jobs
it is a matter of conscience to pick any particular economic principle and implement it, you don't have to implement every principle.
just because you think of slavery doesn't mean it's implementation is necessary for "human progress"... whatever "human progress" means.
maybe a definition is in order for "human progress"..
take for instance the invention of the wheel, was slavery necessary for the invention of the wheel?
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.
 

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As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.
Actually, it takes cooperation to have slaves... The number of people who recognize you own someone, and will return them to their 'rightful owner' has to be greater than the number of people who are owned, at least at first. Otherwise, you'd have to work just as hard as the slave to keep the slave productive. And once they realized they outnumbered you, if they had no fear of a whole society that understood and cooperated with teh slave model, they'd just kick your ass and go home.

And you need others in your society to recognize that these are YOUR slaves, or it's just one big anarchy-flavored round of whup-ass. More cooperation is necessary.

Sorry, Syed, when you think about it, your argument is self-defeating. Again.
 
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tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?
 

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So, in summary, Syed has forged incredibly new ground and a unique standard for apologies in which something regrettable found in history is claimed to be the best of all possible worlds, and god is proven to be real by the observation that he didn't do a fucking thing about it.
God's inaction, god's invisibility, god's complete divorce from yet another aspect of human history is submitted as positive proof of The Skybeast. Ha-Allah-lujah, Amen and Yowza pa-tang.

I'm sure this will prove to be a profitable venue for Syed's faith and his credibility with skeptics and theists of non-muslim flavors.
 

C_Mucius_Scaevola

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allah dont NEED slavery to build a civilization but EARLY human NEEDED slavery to build a civilization
Okay. Allah didn't need slavery. Got it.
Humans needed slavery. Allah allowed them to own slaves.
Allah must have wanted human slavery to exist.
Why did Allah want human slavery to exist, Syed?

allah didnt want human slavery to exist but he accepted this is the only way human will makes progress

Then why didn't he do anything to stop it once Civilization was established?
When they had, you know, money?
he did said to free slave

Only as a punishment:
4: The Women said:
92 It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

At no point in the koran is slavery condemned, nor does it tell believers they should free slaves as a matter of course. And the above only applies to "believing" slaves.
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live. This millenia before Israel or Islam. You knoweth not what you babble.
Never mind that civilizations figured out the concept of money ages ago, and prior to the "great" civilizations that Syed has mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#The_emergence_of_money
he Code of Hammurabi, the best preserved ancient law code, was created ca. 1760 BC (middle chronology) in ancient Babylon. It was enacted by the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi. Earlier collections of laws include the code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (ca. 2050 BC), the Code of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC) and the code of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC).[29] These law codes formalized the role of money in civil society. They set amounts of interest on debt... fines for 'wrongdoing'... and compensation in money for various infractions of formalized law.
<snip>
The use of gold as proto-money has been traced back to the fourth millennium BC when the Egyptians used gold bars of a set weight as a medium of exchange,[citation needed] as had been done earlier in Mesopotamia with silver bars.
 

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I saw the thread title and presumed a social science study/paper/book was going to be attached discussing the logistics of human societal advances and how slavery played a role in it.

I was disappointed but not surprised.

so you believe slavery was not necessary?
I'm saying I was hoping for an intellectual discussion on it, with a reference or two from papers or books discussing the logistics of societal advancement thousands to tens of thousands of years ago. It'd be an interesting topic to discuss.

However, all you did was say it had to be true in OP and have not done any even bare basics research on the topic. So the OP and your subsequent "contributions" in this thread are a fail.
 

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tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?
That it's good to be The King?
 

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god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

Same problem. If an all-powerful God wants humans to be civilised, then he can just make them civilised, can't he? With no suffering involved for anyone. You've hit a dead end, Syed. The God whose bad behaviour you want to justify can't be an omnipotent God.
 

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I didn't reply because i thought paul needed help.
I replied because you have a sucky record at replying to questions.
2) he said to free slave
Then why didn't he say to free slaves before slavery started?
Why didn't he just create civilization?

before slavery started? i want some what you drinking
Syed, you have drawn attention to the fact that civilization correlates with slavery.
But you haven't shown that slavery is NECESSARY to civilization.
why do you think roman had slaves?
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.
when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?
 

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god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?
before invention of money slaves use as a work force build homes,wells, road, farms etc
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.
when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?
Don't know. What does the Qu'ran say about it?
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.
when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?
Don't know. What does the Qu'ran say about it?
i am disappointed but not surprised

quran does not say any thing but rationally thinking tell me that slavery started before invention of money
 

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]Syed, you have drawn attention to the fact that civilization correlates with slavery.
But you haven't shown that slavery is NECESSARY to civilization.
why do you think roman had slaves?
Lots of reasons.
But tell us why your god was FORCED to allow slavery?

- - - Updated - - -

quran does not say any thing but rationally thinking tell me that slavery started before invention of money
But Syed, your rational thinking also tells you that your god is a good god, so it clearly can't be trusted.

The question is, if Allah was against slavery, why couldn't he have prevented slavery?

- - - Updated - - -

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?
Yes, Syed. They're the same people we are.



But they had to have a cooperative society before they had slaves. Spoiling your entire point....
 

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god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?
before invention of money slaves use as a work force build homes,wells, road, farms etc

I don't understand how you think that response answers either of my questions.
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits



As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.
 

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god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?
before invention of money slaves use as a work force build homes,wells, road, farms etc

What are your sources? The Roman roads, for example, where largely built by Roman soldiers. Most slaves in pre-history worked alongside their owners on regular farms. Chores where shared, and strictly speaking, unnecessary. The kind of mass works you're talking about came well after money was invented. Don't forget that money is used to buy slaves. So money is required for one person to amass a large number of slaves.
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.
when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?
Sure there was probably slavery prior to the use of money/currency. However, as I pointed out in post #109, money was in use 2 millennia prior to the start of the Roman Empire. Below describes the Greek use of coinage for centuries prior the Roman Empire even being a wet dream:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_coinage
The history of Ancient Greek coinage can be divided (along with most other Greek art forms) into four periods, the Archaic, the Classical, the Hellenistic and the Roman. The Archaic period extends from the introduction of coinage to the Greek world during the 7th century BC until the Persian Wars in about 480 BC. The Classical period then began, and lasted until the conquests of Alexander the Great in about 330 BC, which began the Hellenistic period, extending until the Roman absorption of the Greek world in the 1st century BC.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?
This is a very strange question. Slaves didn’t typically provide the advanced knowledge to plan, design, or engage a major project. They were the grunt labor as directed by their masters.

As Keith said, you need to at least provide some argument/evidence that slavery is NECESSARY to civilizations development, not just some vague correlation. The pagan pantheon also vaguely correlates to the development of large empires. But somehow I don’t think you would ascribe causation upon the pagan gods.
 

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Additionally, the Egyptian pyramids are actually evidence that your (Syed) claim is FALSE. The Egyptians built what is considered one of the seven wonders of the world WITHOUT slavery.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/29/1242266/-Ancient-Egypt-Misconceptions-About-the-Pyramids#
While there was some slavery in Egypt, the pyramids were not built by slaves nor was there any wholesale enslavement of people because of their skin color, religion, or ethnic background.

The archaeological evidence shows that the pyramids were built by teams of workers from throughout Egypt. The construction of the pyramid complexes served as a kind of public works project which united the people. The workers lived in villages close to the construction site. Each of the pyramids had at least one workers’ village associated with it. These villages included dorms, dining halls, bakeries (bread was important in feeding the workers), and breweries. Archaeologists working in these village sites have uncovered evidence of sewage systems and paved streets with drainage facilities.

The thousands of workers worked in three month shifts. Their diets included meat on a regular basis. It is estimated that the 10,000 laborers working on the pyramids consumed about 21 cattle and 23 sheep each day. The cattle and sheep were provided by farms throughout Egypt.
Those who worked on the pyramids were given the honor of being able to be buried in mud brick tombs within the shadow of the pyramids.
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits


Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.
when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?
Don't know. What does the Qu'ran say about it?
i am disappointed but not surprised
Seriously? You offer nothing but what would be a stretch to consider as a gut feeling on the subject and you really dare to get that snippy?

quran does not say any thing but rationally thinking tell me that slavery started before invention of money
Rational thinking typically involves research.
 

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After the domestication of horses, cattle and dogs, slavery is unnecessary.

do you mean horse , cattle and gods able to do human work?

Guided by humans, they provide horsepower. The rest humans can do for a fair salary.

.
i already mention that early human did not invented money

Oh, sorry my bad. I forgot humanity has to accept things because Syed says so.

This is the problem with discussions with Syed.

He hasn't progressed from his cricular notion that if the Qur'an says it, it's true. And he just can't understand why other people don't accept that.

Sad, really.
 

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It seems like he "falls in love" with arguments that strike him as clever, and contrary information never seems to change that love. How many times has he recycled
arguments like "only theists build hospitals", even after the point has been soundly thrashed.
 

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That seems to be a defining quality of faith, innit?

Not with me it wasn't. I cared about truth, and there's a heck of a lot of people out there who have faith and do. For them there is hope. They are the moderates. Those are the good apples of the fruit bowl of religion.

No default setting of skepticism.

Not for any member of the species. We are wired for the opposite--believing. A skeptical animal is dubitative and will get eaten, whereas an easy believer will survive. As a jittery bag of nerves and impulsively aggressive barking, but survive nonetheless.
 

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Faith? I think this sums it up nicely:

"Faith is like a piece of blank paper whereon you may write as well one miracle as another." ~ Charles Blount (1654-1693)

Zeus and His entourage, Odin and His Mob, Shiva, Shakti, Brahma, Yahweh, Allah....take your pick, whatever appeals to one's needs. After all, it's all faith and you may choose as well one miracle as another.
 

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.early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

early human did not invented money and no one work for other people

so without man power human could not make progress

all past GREAT civilization built on slave workers

slavery responsible for civilizing human

allah did NOT condemn slavery because of that reason but make a way to abolish slavery by freeing them

since allah is all knowing, he knows that human slavery is responsible for civilizing human, so allah cant condemn something that civilized human

GOD IS GREAT

That you believe this explains why religion is bad for people.
 

Syed

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.early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

early human did not invented money and no one work for other people

so without man power human could not make progress

all past GREAT civilization built on slave workers

slavery responsible for civilizing human

allah did NOT condemn slavery because of that reason but make a way to abolish slavery by freeing them

since allah is all knowing, he knows that human slavery is responsible for civilizing human, so allah cant condemn something that civilized human

GOD IS GREAT

That you believe this explains why religion is bad for people.
you are atheist you suppose to say that NO SURPRISED
 

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Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits



As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.

then what makes them primitive people ?
 

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then what makes them primitive people ?
No refrigerators.

Come on, Syed, tell us how to have slaves without cooperation?

How do you keep them working while you go out to get more slaves, if there's no cooperation?
How do you keep other people from taking your slaves without cooperation?
 

Syed

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tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?
That it's good to be The King?
did american's black slaves became president?
 

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That you believe this explains why religion is bad for people.
you are atheist you suppose to say that NO SURPRISED
That's not exactly a retort, Syed.

And, really, all an atheist is supposed to say is that GODS DON'T EXIST.
The opinion on whether organized religion is a useful political tool, a social mechanism or a cancer on human history is not rigidly codified for atheists.
On the other hand, you do work very hard to unify us all with Underseer's position....
 

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It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.

then what makes them primitive people ?

If human society continues, what is going to make us appear to be primitive people in the eyes of those who may be living thousands years in the future?

definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city
 

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definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city
So...your claim is that primitive man couldn't make cities because by definition they didn't live in cities.

That's pretty fucked up for a definition, Syed. No surprise, really, but it's a total failure to establish your thesis.
 

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Looks like Syed put out some bait and a lot of you went for it. The OP of this thread is so asinine.

What's next? "Murder proves God exists?"
 

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definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city


Are you saying that it took nothing more than slavery to lift us out of our primitive condition of living in caves and into building cites? That slavery is the only means of advancement for primitive (cave dwelling) people?
 

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definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city


Are you saying that it took nothing more than slavery to lift us out of our primitive condition of living in caves and into building cites? That slavery is the only means of advancement for primitive (cave dwelling) people?

thats exactly i am saying, early human did not invented money nor anyone work for other people, so the only way to build city was slavery, today we build city by pay workers, back then no money no pay worker
 

DrZoidberg

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definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city


Are you saying that it took nothing more than slavery to lift us out of our primitive condition of living in caves and into building cites? That slavery is the only means of advancement for primitive (cave dwelling) people?

thats exactly i am saying, early human did not invented money nor anyone work for other people, so the only way to build city was slavery, today we build city by pay workers, back then no money no pay worker

What are you basing this on? There is no archaeological evidence for this. We have plenty of evidence in the records of people freely organising themselves in order to create massive works. Building the Egyptian Pyramids is one such example. Mostly just to have something to do when the Nile was flooded. In every case slavery was used for anything, the use of free labour would have been preferable. People can work towards massive projects with little or no financial reimbursement. The building of Moslem mosques is a good example. They are rarely built by paid labourers. It's typically volunteers who build them. Jihad. Mosques can be huge.

We have plenty of records and accounts from the ancient world on how slavery was primarily used. This was not one of them. Slavery has existed because it can exist. But it has never served any beneficial purpose for anyone... including the slavers.

Your argument seems to be based on you wanting it to be true, so therefore it is.
 

C_Mucius_Scaevola

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It looks to me like Syed's making a basic error here; he appears to be assuming that ancient cities were "built", i.e., that they were planned from the outset and built according to that plan, with thousands of workers required to get the whole city up at once. This is, of course, just plain wrong. Ancient cities, with very few exceptions (Amarna is the only one that springs readily to mind) weren't built as such; they grew up organically from villages over decades and even centuries. No slaves were required in this process; houses were built by their future occupants, and great public works were mostly built by volunteer labour, as with the Xian cathedrals of the Middle Ages, or mosques.

And in some cases (many? most?), slavery actually hindered progress. Thus, for example, the Romans, who were familiar with the idea of the watermill, never bothered with this labour-saving device because they had slaves to do that work for them, and in a slave-based economy, it was easier to continue using them than to adopt labour-saving technology and have to find new uses for all the slaves who would have had nothing to do. We know that one technology can lead to another, so who knows what progress the Romans might have made had they not been dependent on their slaves to do the hard work?
 

Keith&Co.

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"Murder proves God exists?"
Hardly a difficult effort for Syed. Just adapt his 'tomorrow proves atheist believers' argument.

Why atheists think murder a bad thing?
If no god, no eternal life, your life worthless, why care if you die so that druggie can spend you money on drugs?
If atheists really think no god exist, they would not look both ways to crossing street and give a rats someone stab their wife or daughter with knife.

Any atheist witness a murder and shout 'no! stop!' is evidence blatant deception on atheist part. He want life, he want others life, and God is only source of life.

ipso exacto he want God.
 

Keith&Co.

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so who knows what progress the Romans might have made had they not been dependent on their slaves to do the hard work?
I think you should say 'who knows what technology the Romans might have made...'

A slave society can still make progress. We've made it to the moon, but they were light-years ahead of us in slave-enhanced orgies. Let's see an exotic, imported, specially trained waterwheel make your special guest extra-comfortable!
 

C_Mucius_Scaevola

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so who knows what progress the Romans might have made had they not been dependent on their slaves to do the hard work?
I think you should say 'who knows what technology the Romans might have made...'

A slave society can still make progress. We've made it to the moon, but they were light-years ahead of us in slave-enhanced orgies. Let's see an exotic, imported, specially trained waterwheel make your special guest extra-comfortable!

I thought it would be clear from the context, but of course what I meant was " ...who knows what technological progress the Romans might have made..." A slave society can make some kinds of progress, but would be unlikely to put much work in on technologies designrd to replace slave labour.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?
That it's good to be The King?
did american's black slaves became president?
Technically, muslims were never slaves in America, and they have accomplished much less than African Americans have.
 

Syed

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definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city


Are you saying that it took nothing more than slavery to lift us out of our primitive condition of living in caves and into building cites? That slavery is the only means of advancement for primitive (cave dwelling) people?

thats exactly i am saying, early human did not invented money nor anyone work for other people, so the only way to build city was slavery, today we build city by pay workers, back then no money no pay worker

What are you basing this on? There is no archaeological evidence for this. We have plenty of evidence in the records of people freely organising themselves in order to create massive works. Building the Egyptian Pyramids is one such example. Mostly just to have something to do when the Nile was flooded. In every case slavery was used for anything, the use of free labour would have been preferable. People can work towards massive projects with little or no financial reimbursement. The building of Moslem mosques is a good example. They are rarely built by paid labourers. It's typically volunteers who build them. Jihad. Mosques can be huge.

We have plenty of records and accounts from the ancient world on how slavery was primarily used. This was not one of them. Slavery has existed because it can exist. But it has never served any beneficial purpose for anyone... including the slavers.

Your argument seems to be based on you wanting it to be true, so therefore it is.

tell me WHEN and HOW did slavery started? i like to hear your theory

- - - Updated - - -

tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?
That it's good to be The King?
did american's black slaves became president?
Technically, muslims were never slaves in America, and they have accomplished much less than African Americans have.
what the hell are you talking about?

muslims ruled the world for 1000 years even european only 2-3 hundred years ruled

beside question is did american's black slaves became president?
 
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