Split Electric Vehicles (from Twitter idiot)

[ZiprHead]

I don't like how the brake regen works, seems to slow the car down too much when it ought just to be rolling along.

You can turn it off and coast like a normal car. It also has a setting called creep where it will move forward like a regular car if you don't hold the brake at a stand still. Aside from that, it works best to always keep your foot on the gas (for lack of a better term) pedal as it is very precise on how much speed VS regen based on the pedals position and current speed. You'll both get used to it.

OMG! The regen brake was awesome for the big valley hill I needed to go down to get home from work in the snow. Wasn't perfect, but much less slipping thanks to the regen braking. I miss that the most. I saw a video on YouTube, however, that indicates some EVs don't indicate heavy regen with the brake lights.

AFIAK no car shows using the engine as a brake, whether it's storing the power or just wasting it. The thing is normally people doing that are maintaining speed, not appreciably slowing.

Tesla regen does appreciably slow the vehicle and engages the break lights.

Source: Owner of a Tesla.

Formula 1 cars (hybrids) use regenerative braking and flashes the brake lights when doing so. Strangely enough the cars don't actually have brake lights that come on when actually using the brakes.

 

[ZiprHead]

Well, I do have to do a near insta-stop regularly to make sure my actual breaks don't seize. I haven't received official word on that, it's just me being paranoid about things that go unused for too long deteriorating.

If my car sits long enough without being driven the first few times the brake is applied doesn't sound good. Things start sounding normal once the corrosion wears off. Doesn't take long. I have had the emergency brake seize up when it gets applied by another driver. I never use the thing but young people these days are taught to apply it every time they park the car whether it's on a hill or on a flat. That's just dumb.

Cars haven't been fitted with an "emergency brake" since the 1920s, though the name has been widely (and incorrectly) used to describe the parking brake ever since.

To not apply the parking brake whenever you plan to leave the driver's seat for any reason is just dumb; It's generally possible to depend upon the transmission to prevent the vehicle from moving when in "Park", but that option only even applies to vehicles with an automatic transmission that has a "Park" setting, and doesn't exist in manual transmission vehicles or heavy automatics (heavy vehicles with automatic transmissions typically only have Drive, Neutral and Reverse).

And it's a basic principle of safety in general that you should always use multiple redundant and independent safety systems where these are available, so that failure of one doesn't result in damage, injury, or death.

Use of the parking brake reduces wear on the pawl that locks the transmission when in Park; And it also clears any corrosion or dirt from the parking brake mechanism, so it won't seize up.

The reason it seizes up on your vehicle when used is almost certainly that you don't use it regularly.

Young people these days generally get a much better education on how to drive than we oldies got. Of course, that doesn't mean it sticks, but then, forgetting what you were taught is at least no worse than not being taught in the first place, or worse, being taught something that's completely wrong (eg "You don't need to use the parking brake every time you leave your vehicle").

Very few manual transmission cars in the US as opposed to Europe.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, I do have to do a near insta-stop regularly to make sure my actual breaks don't seize. I haven't received official word on that, it's just me being paranoid about things that go unused for too long deteriorating.

If my car sits long enough without being driven the first few times the brake is applied doesn't sound good. Things start sounding normal once the corrosion wears off. Doesn't take long. I have had the emergency brake seize up when it gets applied by another driver. I never use the thing but young people these days are taught to apply it every time they park the car whether it's on a hill or on a flat. That's just dumb.

What's dumb about it? What's the downside?

I always do--because I learned on a stick.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To not apply the parking brake whenever you plan to leave the driver's seat for any reason is just dumb; It's generally possible to depend upon the transmission to prevent the vehicle from moving when in "Park", but that option only even applies to vehicles with an automatic transmission that has a "Park" setting, and doesn't exist in manual transmission vehicles

Manuals may not have "Park", but you can leave them in reverse (or 1st, but reverse is usually the lowest gearing) and use engine compression to prevent it from rolling.

In any case, you are right that leaving vehicle in park/reverse and applying the parking brake is best practice because of redundancy.

And that's assuming you can even shift into that gear. With the engine off that might be hard.

 

[Derec]

Formula 1 cars (hybrids) use regenerative braking and flashes the brake lights when doing so. Strangely enough the cars don't actually have brake lights that come on when actually using the brakes.

Because F1 cars brake in braking zones, and drivers already know to anticipate that. Except when being brake tested.
When harvesting though, the car may slow down unexpectedly. Hence the warning lights (that also double as rain and pitlane lights).

 

[bilby]

And that's assuming you can even shift into that gear. With the engine off that might be hard.

It shouldn't be, as long as you fully depress the clutch pedal; Once the transmission is stationary, it should just slide into gear, and in a synchromesh box the first attempt to put it in gear will stop any idling shafts. If the gear still doesn't want to go in, keep your foot on the clutch and select a higher gear - that will nudge the reverse gear cog into a slightly different position, and now it will go into reverse easily.

In trucks with constant mesh transmissions, a clutch brake is usually provided to "stop the box" by halting the rotation of the input shaft, so that you can engage a gear when the engine is off, or when you first start up; This is sometimes a switch located on or near the gear shift, or sometimes it is activated if you push the clutch beyond the "fully depressed" position. In the latter case it's important not to push the clutch in too far during normal driving, so as to avoid stopping the box in error; Most drivers of "crash gearboxes" will "float" gear changes without using the clutch at all, rather than doubling the clutch on each change, and obviously that eliminates the risk of accidentally stopping the box.

 

[TV and credit cards]

To not apply the parking brake whenever you plan to leave the driver's seat for any reason is just dumb; It's generally possible to depend upon the transmission to prevent the vehicle from moving when in "Park", but that option only even applies to vehicles with an automatic transmission that has a "Park" setting, and doesn't exist in manual transmission vehicles

Manuals may not have "Park", but you can leave them in reverse (or 1st, but reverse is usually the lowest gearing) and use engine compression to prevent it from rolling.

In any case, you are right that leaving vehicle in park/reverse and applying the parking brake is best practice because of redundancy.

And that's assuming you can even shift into that gear. With the engine off that might be hard.

I've had a four on the floor and a three on the tree. Just as I would put an automatic in park before shutting it off, I would put a manual in gear prior to. Why would one do so afterwards?

Using the engine as a parking brake is fine as long as you're not parked on a hill steep enough to overcome the compression stroke of the engine.
And if you have drum brakes, know that due to their design, the parking brake typically does not hold in reverse.

I have rear drum brakes on my '05 Tacoma.



Piece of cake.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Well, I do have to do a near insta-stop regularly to make sure my actual breaks don't seize. I haven't received official word on that, it's just me being paranoid about things that go unused for too long deteriorating.

If my car sits long enough without being driven the first few times the brake is applied doesn't sound good. Things start sounding normal once the corrosion wears off. Doesn't take long. I have had the emergency brake seize up when it gets applied by another driver. I never use the thing but young people these days are taught to apply it every time they park the car whether it's on a hill or on a flat. That's just dumb.

What's dumb about it? What's the downside?

I always do--because I learned on a stick.

I learned on a stick too. Was taught to put it in first. Only when there was a real chance the vehicle might roll away, like parking on a grade did we ever use the parking brake. This is easy stuff.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Been watching those Tesla tutorial videos. It is possible as Gospel said to turn off the brake regen. I suppose one might get an idea of whether the range is extended by simply getting it up to speed and then coasting. Also do it with the brake regen engaged.

There's engine drag on all vehicles. It obviously will wear the brakes more on a Tesla, or any car if the drive is disengaged. Which is more costly in the long run is the question, repairing the brakes or paying for electricity.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And that's assuming you can even shift into that gear. With the engine off that might be hard.

It shouldn't be, as long as you fully depress the clutch pedal; Once the transmission is stationary, it should just slide into gear, and in a synchromesh box the first attempt to put it in gear will stop any idling shafts. If the gear still doesn't want to go in, keep your foot on the clutch and select a higher gear - that will nudge the reverse gear cog into a slightly different position, and now it will go into reverse easily.

The car I learned on could be stubborn about that. It also had an occasional habit of the shift lever stopping just before the point of engaging and it would feel like it was in gear but wouldn't be. Driving it would be obvious when you brought the clutch up and didn't get power, but parked there would be no such indication. (You had to take it through neutral and partway into some other gear before you could get into whatever gear was causing the issue.)

It was easy on the later sticks I drove, but they were much smaller and newer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, I do have to do a near insta-stop regularly to make sure my actual breaks don't seize. I haven't received official word on that, it's just me being paranoid about things that go unused for too long deteriorating.

If my car sits long enough without being driven the first few times the brake is applied doesn't sound good. Things start sounding normal once the corrosion wears off. Doesn't take long. I have had the emergency brake seize up when it gets applied by another driver. I never use the thing but young people these days are taught to apply it every time they park the car whether it's on a hill or on a flat. That's just dumb.

What's dumb about it? What's the downside?

I always do--because I learned on a stick.

I learned on a stick too. Was taught to put it in first. Only when there was a real chance the vehicle might roll away, like parking on a grade did we ever use the parking brake. This is easy stuff.

I was taught first and parking brake. Turn the wheels so they will hit the curb if you're on a hill.

 

[thebeave]

To not apply the parking brake whenever you plan to leave the driver's seat for any reason is just dumb; It's generally possible to depend upon the transmission to prevent the vehicle from moving when in "Park", but that option only even applies to vehicles with an automatic transmission that has a "Park" setting, and doesn't exist in manual transmission vehicles

Manuals may not have "Park", but you can leave them in reverse (or 1st, but reverse is usually the lowest gearing) and use engine compression to prevent it from rolling.

In any case, you are right that leaving vehicle in park/reverse and applying the parking brake is best practice because of redundancy.

And that's assuming you can even shift into that gear. With the engine off that might be hard.

I've had a four on the floor and a three on the tree. Just as I would put an automatic in park before shutting it off, I would put a manual in gear prior to. Why would one do so afterwards?

Using the engine as a parking brake is fine as long as you're not parked on a hill steep enough to overcome the compression stroke of the engine.
And if you have drum brakes, know that due to their design, the parking brake typically does not hold in reverse.

I have rear drum brakes on my '05 Tacoma.

View attachment 43531

Piece of cake.

Looks almost identical to my old '87 4Runner rear drum brakes. Funny how some old basic designs just keep on going for years.

You're bringing back some memories for me. And not necessarily pleasant ones. For some reason, I could never master the art of bleeding the brakes at the end of a brake overhaul. Must have been my technique. I remember once not being able to quite get it right and finally giving up and driving it a couple of miles down the road to the gas station mechanic with very squishy scary brakes, and praying to Gawd that some little kid would not decide to jump out in front of me that day.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I've had a four on the floor and a three on the tree. Just as I would put an automatic in park before shutting it off, I would put a manual in gear prior to. Why would one do so afterwards?

Using the engine as a parking brake is fine as long as you're not parked on a hill steep enough to overcome the compression stroke of the engine.
And if you have drum brakes, know that due to their design, the parking brake typically does not hold in reverse.

I have rear drum brakes on my '05 Tacoma.

View attachment 43531

Piece of cake.

Looks almost identical to my old '87 4Runner rear drum brakes. Funny how some old basic designs just keep on going for years.

You're bringing back some memories for me. And not necessarily pleasant ones. For some reason, I could never master the art of bleeding the brakes at the end of a brake overhaul. Must have been my technique. I remember once not being able to quite get it right and finally giving up and driving it a couple of miles down the road to the gas station mechanic with very squishy scary brakes, and praying to Gawd that some little kid would not decide to jump out in front of me that day.

I still bleed my brakes (flush the fluid through) whenever it looks dirty. I keep a maintenance log. A hose in a jug with some fluid in the bottom so it doesn't suck air when the pedal lifts back up is all it takes. I'm surprised how many vehicles still have drum brakes in the back but I guess it's a weight thing. Disc brakes are too much stopping force if the back end is light.
I've only had to change the shoes once back at 246k miles. I put in new hardware and wheel cylinders while I was at it so I shouldn't have to go back in there again. Stretching that shoe return spring and manipulating the hook into the hole is a nightmare.

Speaking of memories, going through my storage containers looking to throw stuff out, I came across my old timing light. Of course I kept it.

 

[bilby]

Only when there was a real chance the vehicle might roll away, like parking on a grade did we ever use the parking brake. This is easy stuff.

There's always a grade, unless you park in a puddle. You might not be able to see it, but it's always there, even if you live in Kansas.

The rainwater wouldn't run off if there wasn't a grade.

This is easy stuff.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There's always a grade, unless you park in a puddle. You might not be able to see it, but it's always there, even if you live in Kansas.

So slight a grade it doesn't matter. This is easy stuff.

 

[bilby]

There's always a grade, unless you park in a puddle. You might not be able to see it, but it's always there, even if you live in Kansas.

So slight a grade it doesn't matter. This is easy stuff.

It matters when your car rolls away, and you're asked at the inquest to explain why you didn't take the utterly trivial preventative step of applying the park brake.

"I thought that the grade was so slight that it didn't matter" is a very poor excuse for having killed somebody.

When the effort is minuscule, and the consequences dire, you should put in the effort even if the probability of a failure is low. Safety is everyone's responsibility.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It matters when your car rolls away, and you're asked at the inquest to explain why you didn't take the utterly trivial preventative step of applying the park brake.

I'm recalling four generations of driving vehicles with lots of drivers in my little corner of the world and it hasn't happened. People do do dumb things like leaving their cars while they're in drive or in neutral and there's an incident. Youtube is full of those videos. But that isn't the same thing.

 

[bilby]

It matters when your car rolls away, and you're asked at the inquest to explain why you didn't take the utterly trivial preventative step of applying the park brake.

I'm recalling four generations of driving vehicles with lots of drivers in my little corner of the world and it hasn't happened. People do do dumb things like leaving their cars while they're in drive or in neutral and there's an incident. Youtube is full of those videos. But that isn't the same thing.

I'm sure the judge will be most impressed that you can back up your dismissive attitude towards safety with a nice anecdote.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It matters when your car rolls away, and you're asked at the inquest to explain why you didn't take the utterly trivial preventative step of applying the park brake.

I'm recalling four generations of driving vehicles with lots of drivers in my little corner of the world and it hasn't happened. People do do dumb things like leaving their cars while they're in drive or in neutral and there's an incident. Youtube is full of those videos. But that isn't the same thing.

I'm sure the judge will be most impressed that you can back up your dismissive attitude towards safety with a nice anecdote.

I'm sure I'll never be in front of a judge about such a thing.

 

[bilby]

It matters when your car rolls away, and you're asked at the inquest to explain why you didn't take the utterly trivial preventative step of applying the park brake.

I'm recalling four generations of driving vehicles with lots of drivers in my little corner of the world and it hasn't happened. People do do dumb things like leaving their cars while they're in drive or in neutral and there's an incident. Youtube is full of those videos. But that isn't the same thing.

I'm sure the judge will be most impressed that you can back up your dismissive attitude towards safety with a nice anecdote.

I'm sure I'll never be in front of a judge about such a thing.

So was everyone who has ended up in front of a judge about such a thing.