Et tu, Stuarte?

[dismal]

Yes, and she said she told others about it, which can be checked.

/thread dismalized

At which point we have completed the circle back to my question: Aren't we supposed to believe her? What's the point of checking?

We? If all we have is an accuser's word alone, the amount of belief depends on their credibility which includes plausibility. If other evidence is available to confirm or refute, it should be looked at. Duh.

Now go dismalize yourself with a rusty circular saw, I'm done with this.

Well, we also have the guy she accused saying she deserves to be heard and believed, and a picture that at a minimum shows he viewed her as a gropable object.

 

[Elixir]

Well, we also have the guy she accused saying she deserves to be heard and believed, and a picture that at a minimum shows he viewed her as a gropable object.

Yeah, Franken would be so much more believable if there were say, nine or ten accusers, 30-something corroborating witnesses and he kept denying it all as Fake News. In that case you could write it off as a ______-wing conspiracy, right?

 

[dismal]

Well, we also have the guy she accused saying she deserves to be heard and believed, and a picture that at a minimum shows he viewed her as a gropable object.

Yeah, Franken would be so much more believable if there were say, nine or ten accusers, 30-something corroborating witnesses and he kept denying it all as Fake News. In that case you could write it off as a ______-wing conspiracy, right?

So, this woman doesn't deserve to be believed unless there are others?

 

[Elixir]

Well, we also have the guy she accused saying she deserves to be heard and believed, and a picture that at a minimum shows he viewed her as a gropable object.

Yeah, Franken would be so much more believable if there were say, nine or ten accusers, 30-something corroborating witnesses and he kept denying it all as Fake News. In that case you could write it off as a ______-wing conspiracy, right?

So, this woman doesn't deserve to be believed unless there are others?

Oh, no! Quite the opposite - the more accusers and witnesses, the more likely that it's just a conspiracy... assuming that the accused is a Republitard. Of course, in the case of a sitting Democrat, a single accuser, or even a Russian-spawned story about selling babies out of a pizzeria is sufficient to lock 'em up.
Get with the program, Dismal!

 

[sharon45]

Well, we also have the guy she accused saying she deserves to be heard and believed, and a picture that at a minimum shows he viewed her as a gropable object.

Yeah, Franken would be so much more believable if there were say, nine or ten accusers, 30-something corroborating witnesses and he kept denying it all as Fake News. In that case you could write it off as a ______-wing conspiracy, right?

So, this woman doesn't deserve to be believed unless there are others?

Automatically believing any accuser, as Franken seems to suggest, is not only ludicrous, but dangerous.

 

[dismal]

Yeah, Franken would be so much more believable if there were say, nine or ten accusers, 30-something corroborating witnesses and he kept denying it all as Fake News. In that case you could write it off as a ______-wing conspiracy, right?

So, this woman doesn't deserve to be believed unless there are others?

Oh, no! Quite the opposite - the more accusers and witnesses, the more likely that it's just a conspiracy... assuming that the accused is a Republitard. Of course, in the case of a sitting Democrat, a single accuser, or even a Russian-spawned story about selling babies out of a pizzeria is sufficient to lock 'em up.
Get with the program, Dismal!

Well, the good news is that Franken groping this woman gave us the opportunity to talk about how bad Republicans are.

 

[blastula]

Automatically believing any accuser, as Franken seems to suggest, is not only ludicrous, but dangerous.

Well, they should be believed enough to be taken seriously and looked into. The threshold for proof then depends on what action is being considered. Court of public opinion is different than criminal court or employment.

 

[Elixir]

Well, the good news is that Franken groping this woman gave us the opportunity to talk about how bad Republicans are.

There's a perennial surplus of that commodity, so I don't know why you'd bring it up.

 

[Toni]

Yes, and she said she told others about it, which can be checked.

/thread dismalized

At which point we have completed the circle back to my question: Aren't we supposed to believe her? What's the point of checking?

In this particular instance, a photo is offered up as proof that Franken groped her, and in fact is apparently the basis for her to believe that he groped her. OK but the photo clearly shows him pretending to grope her through kevlar, no less. It was clearly a pantomime and was clearly in poor taste. But not assault and not actually groping her. The 'forced' kiss was during rehearsal and was scripted. Surely she had read the script and could have declined to participate in the skit. That is more along the lines of reasonable misunderstanding than assault. She may have been disgusted but that's not the same as being assaulted. Yes, generally speaking, I like Franken.

On the other hand, I despise Roy Moore. However, I don't think his asking a teenaged girl out while he was in his 30's was assault, however creepy she found him. If he insisted or attempted to insist, it could have been creepy and maybe worse than creepy, depending on how far he took it. This is quite different than taking a 14 year old to his house in a rural area, removing her clothes, fondling her and trying to get her to fondle him.

 

[dismal]

Well, the good news is that Franken groping this woman gave us the opportunity to talk about how bad Republicans are.

There's a perennial surplus of that commodity, so I don't know why you'd bring it up.

I brought it up because I noticed that there are a lot of posts about Republicans in this thread about Al Franken groping a woman.

The connection is not immediately obvious to me, but the effect seems persistent.

 

[dismal]

Yes, and she said she told others about it, which can be checked.

/thread dismalized

At which point we have completed the circle back to my question: Aren't we supposed to believe her? What's the point of checking?

In this particular instance, a photo is offered up as proof that Franken groped her, and in fact is apparently the basis for her to believe that he groped her. OK but the photo clearly shows him pretending to grope her through kevlar, no less. It was clearly a pantomime and was clearly in poor taste. But not assault and not actually groping her. The 'forced' kiss was during rehearsal and was scripted. Surely she had read the script and could have declined to participate in the skit. That is more along the lines of reasonable misunderstanding than assault. She may have been disgusted but that's not the same as being assaulted. Yes, generally speaking, I like Franken.

So, you like him enough to give him a pass on treating this woman as a gropable object, but don't like him so much that you'll listen to him when he says she deserves to be believed?

 

[Elixir]

So, you like him enough to give him a pass on treating this woman as a gropable object, but don't like him so much that you'll listen to him when he says she deserves to be believed?

WUT? Where did you find the contortionist ability that let you infer THAT?

But thanks for once again highlighting the difference between Franken and, say, the Republican Senate candidate from Alabama. One of them might have the character to man-up to something, and the other ... not so much.

Or are you saying that if Al says "Yes, I did XY and Z, and am ready to take personal responsibility for that..." then we are obligated to also believe the esteemed Mr. Moore when he says "I never saw her before in my life, or any of the other eight of them, and all of the other 30 so called witnesses are part of the left wing conspiracy!"?

 

[dismal]

So, you like him enough to give him a pass on treating this woman as a gropable object, but don't like him so much that you'll listen to him when he says she deserves to be believed?

WUT? Where did you find the contortionist ability that let you infer THAT?

Tweeden says: "Al Franken kissed and groped me without my consent"
Franken says: "what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed."

From this I infer that Al Franken thinks she deserves to have people believe that he groped and kissed her without her consent.

He would know, right?

 

[Elixir]

So, you like him enough to give him a pass on treating this woman as a gropable object, but don't like him so much that you'll listen to him when he says she deserves to be believed?

WUT? Where did you find the contortionist ability that let you infer THAT?

Tweeden says: "Al Franken kissed and groped me without my consent"
Franken says: "what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed."

From this I infer that Al Franken thinks she deserves to have people believe that he groped and kissed her without her consent.

He would know, right?

Of course, (IMHO) and thanks again, dismal!
What do YOU think? Would he be more credible if he denied the whole thing despite eight more people coming forward with 30 corroborating witnesses? (That's a yes/no question, btw)

.... Republitards... sheesh.

 

[starwater]

Al Franken is making a public quasi - "Mea culpa":
The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women,” Franken said......“I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse,” he said. “I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn’t funny. It’s completely inappropriate. It’s obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what’s more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it — women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.”. (source: https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/al-franken-ashamed-by-broadcasters-sexual-harassment-allegations-i-feel-disgusted-with-myself/). Furthermore,

Franken said he doesn’t recall the incidents described by Tweeden in the same way she does, and he called for a Senate ethics investigation and promised to “gladly cooperate.”

Contrast that with the reactions of Roy Moore and his defenders.

I find his groveling and licking the jackboots of the feminazis quite disgusting actually.

I find your inablitity to recongnize how degrading and demoralizing this is to women quite disgusting actually.

 

[Derec]

I find your inablitity to recongnize how degrading and demoralizing this is to women quite disgusting actually.

Why?

 

[blastula]

In this particular instance, a photo is offered up as proof that Franken groped her, and in fact is apparently the basis for her to believe that he groped her. OK but the photo clearly shows him pretending to grope her through kevlar, no less. It was clearly a pantomime and was clearly in poor taste. But not assault and not actually groping her. The 'forced' kiss was during rehearsal and was scripted. Surely she had read the script and could have declined to participate in the skit. That is more along the lines of reasonable misunderstanding than assault. She may have been disgusted but that's not the same as being assaulted. Yes, generally speaking, I like Franken.

Tongue isn't necessary for stage kissing.

 

[laughing dog]

Leann Tweeden accepts Franken's apology -

The apology, sure I accept it, yes. People make mistakes and of course he knew he made a mistake," Leeann Tweeden said. "So yes I do accept that apology. There's no reason why I shouldn't accept his apology."

She said it's up to Congress to decide if it wants to have an ethics investigation into Franken's behavior, adding that she isn’t calling for Franken to step down, unless more women come forward.

“People make mistakes. I’m not calling for him to step down. That’s not my place to say that,” Tweeden said.

(source: http://thehill.com/homenews/news/360709-woman-who-accused-franken-says-she-accepts-his-apology)

 

[starwater]

I find your inablitity to recongnize how degrading and demoralizing this is to women quite disgusting actually.

Why?

You have no ability to see beyond your little world of priviledge and it therefore skews your thinking and that is as you say disgusting actually.

 

[Toni]

At which point we have completed the circle back to my question: Aren't we supposed to believe her? What's the point of checking?

In this particular instance, a photo is offered up as proof that Franken groped her, and in fact is apparently the basis for her to believe that he groped her. OK but the photo clearly shows him pretending to grope her through kevlar, no less. It was clearly a pantomime and was clearly in poor taste. But not assault and not actually groping her. The 'forced' kiss was during rehearsal and was scripted. Surely she had read the script and could have declined to participate in the skit. That is more along the lines of reasonable misunderstanding than assault. She may have been disgusted but that's not the same as being assaulted. Yes, generally speaking, I like Franken.

So, you like him enough to give him a pass on treating this woman as a gropable object, but don't like him so much that you'll listen to him when he says she deserves to be believed?

Not at all what I wrote.