Europe submits voluntarily

[untermensche]

You are wrong.

There was no sectarian violence in Iraq for hundreds of years.

Until the US invaded and began separating the population according to sect.

The territory now called Iraq didn't exist as a unified single nation a hundred years ago.

But the territory did exist.

And there was no sectarian violence in it.

 

[bilby]

The territory now called Iraq didn't exist as a unified single nation a hundred years ago.

But the territory did exist.

And there was no sectarian violence in it.

So you keep baldly asserting without a shred of evidence.

But Wikipedia seems to think you're wrong:

Throughout most of the period of Ottoman rule (1533-1918) the territory of present-day Iraq was a battle zone between the rival regional empires and tribal alliances.

(Source)

 

[whichphilosophy]

The territory now called Iraq didn't exist as a unified single nation a hundred years ago.

But the territory did exist.

And there was no sectarian violence in it.

There was sectarian violence and other types which was contained. However the West made it considerably worse. The deaths under Saddam are dwarfed against the deaths during and since the regime change.

 

[untermensche]

But the territory did exist.

And there was no sectarian violence in it.

So you keep baldly asserting without a shred of evidence.

But Wikipedia seems to think you're wrong:

Throughout most of the period of Ottoman rule (1533-1918) the territory of present-day Iraq was a battle zone between the rival regional empires and tribal alliances.

(Source)

Sectarian violence?

I don't see it.

People fighting for power, of course.

- - - Updated - - -

But the territory did exist.

And there was no sectarian violence in it.

There was sectarian violence and other types which was contained. However the West made it considerably worse. The deaths under Saddam are dwarfed against the deaths during and since the regime change.

What exactly is "contained" violence?

You mean the lack of violence of the nature that rose up after the US invasion?

 

[whichphilosophy]

So you keep baldly asserting without a shred of evidence.

But Wikipedia seems to think you're wrong:

Throughout most of the period of Ottoman rule (1533-1918) the territory of present-day Iraq was a battle zone between the rival regional empires and tribal alliances.

(Source)

Sectarian violence?

I don't see it.

People fighting for power, of course.

- - - Updated - - -

But the territory did exist.

And there was no sectarian violence in it.

There was sectarian violence and other types which was contained. However the West made it considerably worse. The deaths under Saddam are dwarfed against the deaths during and since the regime change.

What exactly is "contained" violence?

You mean the lack of violence of the nature that rose up after the US invasion?

Actually yes as well put in your last sentence. Though not just lack of violence, but violence erupted afterwards. As a result of the loss of his control over the country and no control by anyone else the extremist factions gained ground militarily. For sure soldiers and civil servants who were sacked simply for Baath Party membership became enemies at a grass roots level. Indeed water, electricity and other services collapsed after these sackings for a considerable time.

Excuse the bulk cut and paste.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence_in_Iraq

To secure the loyalty of the Shia population during the war, Saddam allowed more Shias into the Ba'ath Party and the government, and improved Shia living standards, which had been lower than those of the Iraqi Sunnis.[1] Saddam had the state pay for restoring Imam Ali's tomb with white marble imported from Italy.[1] The Baathists also increased their policies of repression against the Shia. The most infamous event was the massacre of 148 civilians of the Shia town of Dujail.[2]

Despite the costs of the war, the Iraqi regime made generous contributions to Shia waqf (religious endowments) as part of the price of buying Iraqi Shia support.[3]:75–76 The importance of winning Shia support was such that welfare services in Shia areas were expanded during a time in which the Iraqi regime was pursuing austerity in all other non-military fields.[3]:76 During the first years of the war in the early 1980s, the Iraqi government tried to accommodate the Kurds in order to focus on the war against Iran. In 1983, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan agreed to cooperate with Baghdad, but the Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP) remained opposed.[4] In 1983, Saddam signed an autonomy agreement with Jalal Talabani of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), though Saddam later reneged on the agreement.[1] By 1985, the PUK and KDP had joined forces, and Iraqi Kurdistan saw widespread guerrilla warfare up to the end of the war.[1]

Towards the end of this war, on 16 March 1988, the Kurdish town of Halabja was attacked with a mix of mustard gas and nerve agents, killing 5,000 civilians, and maiming, disfiguring, or seriously debilitating 10,000 more. (see Halabja poison gas attack)[5] The attack occurred in conjunction with the 1988 al-Anfal Campaign designed to reassert central control of the mostly Kurdish population of areas of northern Iraq and defeat the Kurdish peshmerga rebel forces. The United States now maintains that Saddam ordered the attack to terrorize the Kurdish population in northern Iraq,[5] but Saddam's regime claimed at the time that Iran was responsible for the attack[6] a position which the U.S. supported until several years later.

The result of removing him has caused a complete disaster in the area.


I think you have read WIKI and other direct sources. For simplicity noting the last sentence here which shows yet another unfounded statement.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The territory now called Iraq didn't exist as a unified single nation a hundred years ago.

One of the biggest causes of tensions in the Middle East is the arbitrary boundaries between 'nations' imposed by the League of Nations (essentially by Britain and France) after WWI.

As in Africa, the drawing of borders with regard only for colonial power balancing and horse trading; and with no regard for pre-existing ethnic, tribal and sectarian boundaries leads to strife.

Powers, Great Powers, and Superpowers always prefer stability, and will tolerate the most obscene dictatorships and the most vile regimes in stability's name.

But they seem oblivious to the fact that arbitrarily drawn borders are inevitable causes of instability.

Stability cannot be imposed on arbitrary borders in the long term. First the borders need to be redrawn around peoples who share common roots - or at the very least, do not harbour ancient rivalries. Once that is done, the new nations become 'real' countries, to which their citizens feel loyalty and belonging; and stability is then a matter of striking a power balance, with assistance to the weaker nations if they are threatened by the strong, to provide the stability that the powers - and the ordinary citizens - desire, without the need for vicious tyrants to keep a lid on the underlying hatreds that inevitably exist when warring tribes are forced to live in a single 'nation'.

Aha... the myth of nationhood. It's actually nonsense. It was always nonsense. The evidence is Europe. Europe is a bunch of arbitrarily drawn borders. And we're doing fine. All of America are people, of a variety of nationalities, just catapulted into various countries with arbitrary borders. North America is doing fine. South America... hmm... well... less so. The national identities we now see in the world are wholly artificial. They have no history to it. In the 17-hundreds Stockholmers only spoke German. Possibly also French. Certainly not Swedish. It was a dying and useless language, because it wasn't internationally useful. Only peasants in the sticks spoke Swedish. Then in the 18-hundreds when nationalism and national identity became trendy Swedish was forced upon the population. And now we all speak Swedish in Sweden. Artificial. At the time of the French revolution only 12% of the French could speak French at all. It was the same all over Europe 200 years ago. We have done an excellent job of creating a shared sense of nationhood in Europe. What that tells us is that it's easily manipulated and subject to change in anybody.

You could do a mental exercise of removing everybody from Europe who has moved to another country within three generations. You'd almost halve the population of Europe. We're a highly mobile and adaptable species. That's our one USP, it's the unique and useful feature of homo sapiens. Cultures aren't monolithic and they're not constant. What is constant is cultural change. Shifting identities.

The people of the Middle-East are, for purely geographical reasons, the most ethnically fractured and diverse people on the planet. And they have been for the last 150 000 years. You could literally draw the borders anywhere in the Middle-East it would make no difference. It's also true for Europe. But even more so for the Middle-East. The problem with the Sykes-Picot agreement wasn't the placement of the borders. But that it was Europeans only who placed the borders. So the people who lived their of course felt ignored. With every right.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

5,000 bodies found countrywide compared to between 500,000 to 1,000,000 who died from the Oil for Food program. Added to this far more have been butchered by ISIS and other groups in the region. Certainly the information suggested by Blair that there are around 400,000 bodies was not substantiated. Saddam was convicted of the death of 148 Kurds (with the Gas Germany provided to him to do the job). This does not justify Saddam's genocide and treatment of Kurd and Shiite activists, but the situation today has since far deteriorated from that point.

148 dead in one attack virtually certainly means far more than 5,000 dead total.

And you're blaming the oil-for-food program for deaths that were caused by Saddam's misuse of it. There was plenty of unspent oil for food money, it can't be blamed for the deaths.

 

[untermensche]

5,000 bodies found countrywide compared to between 500,000 to 1,000,000 who died from the Oil for Food program. Added to this far more have been butchered by ISIS and other groups in the region. Certainly the information suggested by Blair that there are around 400,000 bodies was not substantiated. Saddam was convicted of the death of 148 Kurds (with the Gas Germany provided to him to do the job). This does not justify Saddam's genocide and treatment of Kurd and Shiite activists, but the situation today has since far deteriorated from that point.

148 dead in one attack virtually certainly means far more than 5,000 dead total.

And you're blaming the oil-for-food program for deaths that were caused by Saddam's misuse of it. There was plenty of unspent oil for food money, it can't be blamed for the deaths.

It doesn't matter why the deaths occurred.

The US knew the deaths were occurring and did nothing to stop them, when it could have.

That was a price the US was nobly willing to pay.

 

[Underseer]

Interesting times indeed. After 1,200 years or so of battling islamic aggression, christendom has surrendered in the most unimaginable way. Well played to mullahs, they have played a blinder.

Fuck you.

I'm getting tired of this rhetoric.

Really sick and tired of this. Here is just a week's worth of acts of terrorism inspired by exactly the kind of rhetoric you just indulged in:

https://theintercept.com/2015/12/12...ainst-muslims-in-the-u-s-just-from-this-week/

You and your fellow protofascists spread all of this hateful rhetoric, which inevitably results in an increase in terrorist acts by the more unhinged among your right wing political movement. You spout all of this shrill "Muslims're a' cummin' ta git us awl!" crap, and someone slashes a cab driver's neck or sets fire to a mosque.

You people spout lies about how Planned Parenthood is "selling baby parts," and suddenly there is an increase in acts of terrorism against Planned Parenthood.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-shooting

You spread your shrill "all lives matter" bullshit, and some of your fellow rightists go and shoot up Black Lives Matter protesters

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/u...lack-lives-matter-protest-are-identified.html

I am getting sick and fucking tired of this fucking bullshit.

There is an obvious and undeniable link between the lies and hate you protofascists spew and acts of violence and terrorism by your fellow protofascists.

You spend all this time castigating Muslims for failing to do anything to curb the terrorists in their own midst. You spend a lot of time castigating Muslims for failing to curb the rhetoric that inspires terrorism. But when have you ever lifted a finger to stop the terrorism of your fellow right wing extremists? At what point did you ever consider challenging those of your fellow rightists who spread this message of fear and hate that drives these terrorist acts?

Oh, that's right. Instead of standing up to those in your movement who spread this kind of rhetoric, you spread it yourself, and I doubt you are capable of feeling shame for what you do nor what you inspire.

I think it is time we acknowledge that American rightists are subhuman savages who are simply unable to function in a civilized society. We have asked them to change again and again and again, and instead they just keep getting worse. The rhetoric gets ever more shrill, ever more hateful, ever more divorced from reality, and the acts of violence it inspires just keeps getting worse and worse.

Simply asking rightists to not be evil doesn't work, and I think we need to acknowledge that.

 

[angelo]

148 dead in one attack virtually certainly means far more than 5,000 dead total.

And you're blaming the oil-for-food program for deaths that were caused by Saddam's misuse of it. There was plenty of unspent oil for food money, it can't be blamed for the deaths.

It doesn't matter why the deaths occurred.

The US knew the deaths were occurring and did nothing to stop them, when it could have.

That was a price the US was nobly willing to pay.

But they did do something about it. They deposed the dictator. You can't have your cake and eat too. Yes, I'm aware that things went pear shaped later.

 

[angelo]

Interesting times indeed. After 1,200 years or so of battling islamic aggression, christendom has surrendered in the most unimaginable way. Well played to mullahs, they have played a blinder.

Fuck you.

I'm getting tired of this rhetoric.

Really sick and tired of this. Here is just a week's worth of acts of terrorism inspired by exactly the kind of rhetoric you just indulged in:

https://theintercept.com/2015/12/12...ainst-muslims-in-the-u-s-just-from-this-week/

You and your fellow protofascists spread all of this hateful rhetoric, which inevitably results in an increase in terrorist acts by the more unhinged among your right wing political movement. You spout all of this shrill "Muslims're a' cummin' ta git us awl!" crap, and someone slashes a cab driver's neck or sets fire to a mosque.

You people spout lies about how Planned Parenthood is "selling baby parts," and suddenly there is an increase in acts of terrorism against Planned Parenthood.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-shooting

You spread your shrill "all lives matter" bullshit, and some of your fellow rightists go and shoot up Black Lives Matter protesters

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/u...lack-lives-matter-protest-are-identified.html

I am getting sick and fucking tired of this fucking bullshit.

There is an obvious and undeniable link between the lies and hate you protofascists spew and acts of violence and terrorism by your fellow protofascists.

You spend all this time castigating Muslims for failing to do anything to curb the terrorists in their own midst. You spend a lot of time castigating Muslims for failing to curb the rhetoric that inspires terrorism. But when have you ever lifted a finger to stop the terrorism of your fellow right wing extremists? At what point did you ever consider challenging those of your fellow rightists who spread this message of fear and hate that drives these terrorist acts?

Oh, that's right. Instead of standing up to those in your movement who spread this kind of rhetoric, you spread it yourself, and I doubt you are capable of feeling shame for what you do nor what you inspire.

I think it is time we acknowledge that American rightists are subhuman savages who are simply unable to function in a civilized society. We have asked them to change again and again and again, and instead they just keep getting worse. The rhetoric gets ever more shrill, ever more hateful, ever more divorced from reality, and the acts of violence it inspires just keeps getting worse and worse.

Simply asking rightists to not be evil doesn't work, and I think we need to acknowledge that.

So it's all the fault of the right. Even 9/11 and the following over 20000 Islamic terrorist attacks since are all the fault of the right!

 

[maxparrish]

"Europe submits voluntarily"...well not all of Europe.

Not all of Europe has been submitting to the looming social and cultural displacement by the Islamic hordes. In the last few months there have been glimmers of hope, a few beacon buoy's of enlightenment on the dark and savage waters that pound at sinking ships of state in the west.

http://www.budapost.eu/2015/11/hungary-rejects-immigrant-relocation-quotas/

Orban's, the Charles Martel of the 21st century, makes his heroic stand against the Islamic waves:

Hungary rejects immigrant relocation quotas
November 19th, 2015

In a commentary on the anti-quota resolution passed by Parliament, the pro-government daily urges the West to curb immigration from Muslim countries ‘before it is too late.’ The Hungarian Parliament has instructed the government to take the EU rule on mandatory migration quotas to the European Court. Although the Socialist opposition voted against, it also opposes unlimited quotas

In Magyar Idők, political scientist Tamás Fricz interprets last Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris as proof that Professor Samuel Huntington was right in 1996 when he predicted a clash of civilizations, identifying Muslim civilization as the main opponent of the West. Huntington clearly saw two decades ago, Fricz argues, that the difference in demographic trends was prompting masses of Muslims to emigrate, and he praised Western countries for reducing the number of non-Europeans being allowed to settle in Europe. Almost 20 years on, Fricz finds it absurd that Europe’s leaders should see in the flow of migrants the solution to Europe’s problems rather than a source of future ones. He calls on Europe to take urgent measures to protect itself.

Sweden, amid a waterfall of tears over ceasing its suicidal policies, regained some degree of sanity. As some predicted ,although denied by a few posters, the flood of asylum seekers kept growing reaching 10,000 per week. Sweden, near collapse, finally relented to reality.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/sweden-asylum-seekers-refugees-policy-reversal

The reversal in refugee policy, which follows the imposition of border controls two weeks ago, marks a policy choice the ruling red-green coalition would have considered unthinkable until asylum seekers began arriving this autumn at a rate of 10,000 a week. Official estimates suggest up to 190,000 could come to the country of 10 million people this year.

...At the weekend refugees arriving in the southern city of Malmö were forced to sleep on the streets because no beds could be found.

...The Greens’ deputy prime minister, Åsa Romson, broke into tears as she announced the measures.

“This is a terrible decision,” she said later, admitting that the proposals would make life even more precarious for refugees. But quitting the government would have made a bad situation even worse, she added.

The leader of Sweden’s centre-right bloc, Anna Kinberg Batra, welcomed the measures but said they were not enough, and that asylum policy needed to be tightened even further. “Sweden needs to act now to bring order to an untenable situation,” she said.

The far-right Sweden Democrats claimed the government was doing too little too late to implement the party’s demands.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/24...icy-so-much-she-is-literally-crying-about-it/

This fall, disagreement over whether European Union member states should establish a quota system for refugees escalated so quickly that Hungary and Slovakia, who were opposed to the plan, threatened to bring the 28-nation bloc to court if they were forced to adopt the new measures.

At the time, Sweden’s Social Democrat leaders couldn’t have felt more differently than their right-wing counterparts in Eastern Europe — they even said they would be happy to take in more refugees than they were being asked to accept.

But on Tuesday, just two months after Swedish Employment Minister Ylva Johansson said her country would take in refugees and improve its population demographics “with a smile,” Sweden is shutting its door to the thousands of refugees waiting to qualify for asylum there.

The announcement, which is a clear reversal of the policies Sweden has advertised for months, brought Deputy Prime Minister Asa Romson, a member of the Green Party, to tears at a news conference in Stockholm Tuesday.

Prime Minister Stefan Lofven, who addressed journalists alongside Romson, said that Sweden needed a “respite” from the tens of thousands of refugees asking for asylum there, and is moving forward with legislation that will impose tough new restrictions on refugees, reduce the number allowed into Sweden, and mandate stricter identity checks.

“It pains me that Sweden is no longer capable of receiving asylum seekers at the high level we do today,” he said. “We simply cannot do any more.”

...But that was when Sweden expected they would receive roughly 74,000 asylum applications this year. That estimate has more than doubled since then, with more than 10,000 refugees arriving in Sweden each week this fall, straining the country of 10 million’s limited resources. This month, refugees who arrived in the Swedish town of Malmo reportedly had to sleep on the street. And as Sweden has grappled with a consistent flow of people who aren’t just passing through, but also plan to stay, their other countries in Europe have built fences and pushed back asylum-seekers and refugees, only adding to refugees’ desperation to arrive in places like Sweden and Germany that are more willing to accommodate their asylum requests.

And what inhumane policy is Sweden imposing, the one causing wails of tears?

The new, stricter Swedish asylum policy, will be in place for the next three years. Refugees who arrived in Sweden on their own, and not through the official EU relocation plan that distributed tens of thousands of refugees this fall, will receive temporary residence permits, but likely not asylum.

“This is a terrible decision,” Romson reportedly admitted to reporters after the announcement.

You can still get into Sweden, but you can't mooch forever or enter with government help. OH THE HORRORS.

 

[whichphilosophy]

5,000 bodies found countrywide compared to between 500,000 to 1,000,000 who died from the Oil for Food program. Added to this far more have been butchered by ISIS and other groups in the region. Certainly the information suggested by Blair that there are around 400,000 bodies was not substantiated. Saddam was convicted of the death of 148 Kurds (with the Gas Germany provided to him to do the job). This does not justify Saddam's genocide and treatment of Kurd and Shiite activists, but the situation today has since far deteriorated from that point.

148 dead in one attack virtually certainly means far more than 5,000 dead total.

And you're blaming the oil-for-food program for deaths that were caused by Saddam's misuse of it. There was plenty of unspent oil for food money, it can't be blamed for the deaths.

The whole program was doomed to failure from the start. Proper trade would have been the solution. It involved all parties including the head of this program Benon Sevan. There is also a lot of false information surrounding this where sanctions should not have been in place in the first place. When a fish goes rotten, it starts at the head. The US, UK and other American poodles.

 

[repoman]

Ok, I heard an interesting contention:

It is that the a promised reward for fighting on the side of US/UK/NATO against Russia and Assad is that the former rebels (and even ISIS fighters) will be able to come to Europe to live.

Does this make any sense?

 

[maxparrish]

Finally, perhaps Merkel has seen her job on chopping block. To some, the stubborn and self-righteous Chancellor has, seemingly, folded. However, according to Politico she has merely said something insincere to please everyone and to secure her leadership with her party.

According to Reuters: "Merkel Folds : Will ‘Drastically Reduce’ Number of Refugees"

http://www.breitbart.com/author/reuters/

Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Sunday she wanted to “drastically decrease” the number of refugees coming to Germany, signalling a compromise to critics of her open-door policy from within her conservatives on the eve of a party congress.

Merkel has resisted pressure from allies within her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) to put a cap on the number of refugees entering Germany, which is expected to top 1 million this year.

“At the same time we took on board the concerns of the people, who are worried about the future, and this means we want to reduce, we want to drastically decrease the number of people coming to us,” Merkel told broadcaster ARD.

Merkel, whose popularity has fallen over her handling of the refugee crisis, said the word “limit” did not feature in the CDU’s main resolution which will be debated at the two-day party congress starting on Monday in the southern city of Karlsruhe.

The chancellor added there was broad support in the CDU for her strategy to reduce the numbers.

This included working with Turkey to fight traffickers, improving the situation at Syrian refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan, and strengthening control of the European Union’s outer borders.

Merkel’s conservative critics want her to get the number of arrivals down before three state elections in March and say her hopes of running for a fourth term in 2017 would be in danger.

In the meantime, overnight Germany has one million new Muslims on the state dole, and a new underclass. While I doubt she has really folded, at least she is feeling the pressure to cease the open borders.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Fuck you.

I'm getting tired of this rhetoric.

Really sick and tired of this. Here is just a week's worth of acts of terrorism inspired by exactly the kind of rhetoric you just indulged in:

https://theintercept.com/2015/12/12...ainst-muslims-in-the-u-s-just-from-this-week/

You and your fellow protofascists spread all of this hateful rhetoric, which inevitably results in an increase in terrorist acts by the more unhinged among your right wing political movement. You spout all of this shrill "Muslims're a' cummin' ta git us awl!" crap, and someone slashes a cab driver's neck or sets fire to a mosque.

You people spout lies about how Planned Parenthood is "selling baby parts," and suddenly there is an increase in acts of terrorism against Planned Parenthood.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-shooting

You spread your shrill "all lives matter" bullshit, and some of your fellow rightists go and shoot up Black Lives Matter protesters

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/u...lack-lives-matter-protest-are-identified.html

I am getting sick and fucking tired of this fucking bullshit.

There is an obvious and undeniable link between the lies and hate you protofascists spew and acts of violence and terrorism by your fellow protofascists.

You spend all this time castigating Muslims for failing to do anything to curb the terrorists in their own midst. You spend a lot of time castigating Muslims for failing to curb the rhetoric that inspires terrorism. But when have you ever lifted a finger to stop the terrorism of your fellow right wing extremists? At what point did you ever consider challenging those of your fellow rightists who spread this message of fear and hate that drives these terrorist acts?

Oh, that's right. Instead of standing up to those in your movement who spread this kind of rhetoric, you spread it yourself, and I doubt you are capable of feeling shame for what you do nor what you inspire.

I think it is time we acknowledge that American rightists are subhuman savages who are simply unable to function in a civilized society. We have asked them to change again and again and again, and instead they just keep getting worse. The rhetoric gets ever more shrill, ever more hateful, ever more divorced from reality, and the acts of violence it inspires just keeps getting worse and worse.

Simply asking rightists to not be evil doesn't work, and I think we need to acknowledge that.

So it's all the fault of the right. Even 9/11 and the following over 20000 Islamic terrorist attacks since are all the fault of the right!

We should not have wet nursed the terrorists such as Bin Laden with support against the Russians in Afghanistan. Subsequently he bit the hand that fed him. The attacks support the case that with the collapse of the regimes which the US engineered with the allies, resulted extremist groups filling the vacuum.

- - - Updated - - -

Finally, perhaps Merkel has seen her job on chopping block. To some, the stubborn and self-righteous Chancellor has, seemingly, folded. However, according to Politico she has merely said something insincere to please everyone and to secure her leadership with her party.

According to Reuters: "Merkel Folds : Will ‘Drastically Reduce’ Number of Refugees"

http://www.breitbart.com/author/reuters/

Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Sunday she wanted to “drastically decrease” the number of refugees coming to Germany, signalling a compromise to critics of her open-door policy from within her conservatives on the eve of a party congress.

Merkel has resisted pressure from allies within her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) to put a cap on the number of refugees entering Germany, which is expected to top 1 million this year.

“At the same time we took on board the concerns of the people, who are worried about the future, and this means we want to reduce, we want to drastically decrease the number of people coming to us,” Merkel told broadcaster ARD.

Merkel, whose popularity has fallen over her handling of the refugee crisis, said the word “limit” did not feature in the CDU’s main resolution which will be debated at the two-day party congress starting on Monday in the southern city of Karlsruhe.

The chancellor added there was broad support in the CDU for her strategy to reduce the numbers.

This included working with Turkey to fight traffickers, improving the situation at Syrian refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan, and strengthening control of the European Union’s outer borders.

Merkel’s conservative critics want her to get the number of arrivals down before three state elections in March and say her hopes of running for a fourth term in 2017 would be in danger.

In the meantime, overnight Germany has one million new Muslims on the state dole, and a new underclass. While I doubt she has really folded, at least she is feeling the pressure to cease open borders.

This is what Europe voted for hence the title of this thread. The problem is the volume not the fact that immigrants come to Europe.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Ok, I heard an interesting contention:

It is that the a promised reward for fighting on the side of US/UK/NATO against Russia and Assad is that the former rebels (and even ISIS fighters) will be able to come to Europe to live.

Does this make any sense?

The borders are open to everyone. No ID then no problem.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Ok, I heard an interesting contention:

It is that the a promised reward for fighting on the side of US/UK/NATO against Russia and Assad is that the former rebels (and even ISIS fighters) will be able to come to Europe to live.

Does this make any sense?

We created the cycle of events that destroyed their countries. Given Europe doesn't have any borders to speak about, where else can they go, together with ISIS fighter driven out of their holes by the Russian bombardments. Actually the majority of those moving to Europe are not from Syria. There are a lot of economic migrants.

- - - Updated - - -

Finally, perhaps Merkel has seen her job on chopping block. To some, the stubborn and self-righteous Chancellor has, seemingly, folded. However, according to Politico she has merely said something insincere to please everyone and to secure her leadership with her party.

According to Reuters: "Merkel Folds : Will ‘Drastically Reduce’ Number of Refugees"

http://www.breitbart.com/author/reuters/

Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Sunday she wanted to “drastically decrease” the number of refugees coming to Germany, signalling a compromise to critics of her open-door policy from within her conservatives on the eve of a party congress.

Merkel has resisted pressure from allies within her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) to put a cap on the number of refugees entering Germany, which is expected to top 1 million this year.

“At the same time we took on board the concerns of the people, who are worried about the future, and this means we want to reduce, we want to drastically decrease the number of people coming to us,” Merkel told broadcaster ARD.

Merkel, whose popularity has fallen over her handling of the refugee crisis, said the word “limit” did not feature in the CDU’s main resolution which will be debated at the two-day party congress starting on Monday in the southern city of Karlsruhe.

The chancellor added there was broad support in the CDU for her strategy to reduce the numbers.

This included working with Turkey to fight traffickers, improving the situation at Syrian refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan, and strengthening control of the European Union’s outer borders.

Merkel’s conservative critics want her to get the number of arrivals down before three state elections in March and say her hopes of running for a fourth term in 2017 would be in danger.

In the meantime, overnight Germany has one million new Muslims on the state dole, and a new underclass. While I doubt she has really folded, at least she is feeling the pressure to cease the open borders.

She will not take any action in the immediate future. Perhaps later there may be some token gestures.

 

[TSwizzle]

Interesting times indeed. After 1,200 years or so of battling islamic aggression, christendom has surrendered in the most unimaginable way. Well played to mullahs, they have played a blinder.

Here is just a week's worth of acts of terrorism inspired by exactly the kind of rhetoric you just indulged in:

https://theintercept.com/2015/12/12...ainst-muslims-in-the-u-s-just-from-this-week/

Glenn Greenwald ? :laughing-smiley-014

 

[Loren Pechtel]

148 dead in one attack virtually certainly means far more than 5,000 dead total.

And you're blaming the oil-for-food program for deaths that were caused by Saddam's misuse of it. There was plenty of unspent oil for food money, it can't be blamed for the deaths.

It doesn't matter why the deaths occurred.

The US knew the deaths were occurring and did nothing to stop them, when it could have.

That was a price the US was nobly willing to pay.

The price would have been giving Saddam free reign to rearm and thus face more wars. There was no good answer, something the left does a very poor job of comprehending.