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There's a very simple reason Israel shouldn't let them in: They're going to side with Israel's enemies.

The enemies Israel has created.

But it is amazing you know what side people will take without speaking to one of them.

When did the Palestinians get their hands on a time machine?

Because the hatred of the Jews predates anything Israel did.

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China also has a policy of keeping islam out of their country, as has Japan. Do they know something the Westerners don't?

Oh, come on. The Chinese resistance against Islam is just pure racism. Their Uigur minority is, pretty much, all Muslim. So their anti-Islamic policies are most likely just anti-Uigur policies. It's like Hungary are putting laws in place for national unity which are all just formulated to push out Jews and Gypsies out of the country.

Also, Chinese don't stop with hating Muslims. They don't want religious people at all in the country. Even though they're nominally tolerant now. They really aren't. It's impossible for a religious person to get a government office and religious people are harassed in a number of ways.

I disagree. China doesn't mind religion. China hates any organization that attempts to put itself above the state--and that includes all the Judaeo-Christian religions. They don't have a problem with religions like Buddhism that do not attempt to usurp the role of supreme authority.
 
The enemies Israel has created.

But it is amazing you know what side people will take without speaking to one of them.

When did the Palestinians get their hands on a time machine?

Because the hatred of the Jews predates anything Israel did.

- - - Updated - - -

China also has a policy of keeping islam out of their country, as has Japan. Do they know something the Westerners don't?

Oh, come on. The Chinese resistance against Islam is just pure racism. Their Uigur minority is, pretty much, all Muslim. So their anti-Islamic policies are most likely just anti-Uigur policies. It's like Hungary are putting laws in place for national unity which are all just formulated to push out Jews and Gypsies out of the country.

Also, Chinese don't stop with hating Muslims. They don't want religious people at all in the country. Even though they're nominally tolerant now. They really aren't. It's impossible for a religious person to get a government office and religious people are harassed in a number of ways.

I disagree. China doesn't mind religion. China hates any organization that attempts to put itself above the state--and that includes all the Judaeo-Christian religions. They don't have a problem with religions like Buddhism that do not attempt to usurp the role of supreme authority.

We could say the State nationalized the Christian Churches and set up its own state run Christian Church group called the Three Self Patriotic movement for Protestant churches. Lenin said religion is the opiate of the people, so we can say this was provided by the State.

There has been hatred of the Jews even before Christ. However the modern Palestine and Israel conflict is unfortunate for with peace in the area the region would boom even with just holiday makers and pilgrims etc
 
There's a very simple reason Israel shouldn't let them in: They're going to side with Israel's enemies.

The enemies Israel has created.

But it is amazing you know what side people will take without speaking to one of them.
Well I'll be damned. I had no idea it was Israel who created Mohammad and Islam!
 
The enemies Israel has created.

But it is amazing you know what side people will take without speaking to one of them.

When did the Palestinians get their hands on a time machine?

Because the hatred of the Jews predates anything Israel did.

You are right, the hatred Israel created in the mother is many times passed to the child.

You are delusional if you think keeping people down with force and kidnapping and torturing and killing does not create enemies.

Your position is the position of the blind idiot that knows nothing but it's own prejudices.
 
The enemies Israel has created.

But it is amazing you know what side people will take without speaking to one of them.
Well I'll be damned. I had no idea it was Israel who created Mohammad and Islam!

I'll be damned.

Some moron is talking about Mohammad when a nation (Israel) has engaged in decades of abuse, torture, stealing of land, and periodic murderous attacks.

We don't need to look for phantoms under these circumstances.
 
I just have to turn my back for one second and Loren Pechtel will turn any thread into a Israel-Palestine thread. NIMBY!
 
I disagree. China doesn't mind religion. China hates any organization that attempts to put itself above the state--and that includes all the Judaeo-Christian religions. They don't have a problem with religions like Buddhism that do not attempt to usurp the role of supreme authority.

Oh, for fucks sake. China is a totalitarian police state. What about that don't you grasp? People don't have freedom in that country. None. China hates any organisation that isn't the Chinese government. If you want to make a career in that country the straight and narrow path you're forced to walk on is ludicrously narrow. Successful people who refuse to tow the party line are harassed until they break. You know the water boarding debate we've had in the west? I'm sure the army of torturers working for the Chinese government are laughing about it while they sharpen their tools. These people torture innocent civilians on any flimsy pretext. And they do it on a systematic massive scale. It's a torture machine to keep people in constant terror. If you want to do anything remotely unorthodox in China you have to try pretty fucking hard to stay under the radar. Which means living a completely secret life in constant fear of being busted.

Being actively and openly religious in China is like being openly gay in Uganda. It's no fun. Please remove your rose tinted Western glasses. It's pretty offensive actually. Please talk to somebody who has lived in a totalitarian state. It's institutionalised insanity. This kind of government is, for want of a better term, pure evil. It's social control taken to an absurd extreme impossible to imagine if you haven't experienced it. My ex wife grew up in Hungary. So I know a bit about this. But that was a pretty mild version of communism. China is not a mild version. China is as bad as USSR was.
 
When did the Palestinians get their hands on a time machine?

Because the hatred of the Jews predates anything Israel did.

You are right, the hatred Israel created in the mother is many times passed to the child.

You are delusional if you think keeping people down with force and kidnapping and torturing and killing does not create enemies.

Your position is the position of the blind idiot that knows nothing but it's own prejudices.

I note that you aren't addressing the fundamental issue--the events you say are a reaction to Israel's actions started before Israel existed. Simply blindly repeating hate doesn't rebut causality.

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I just have to turn my back for one second and Loren Pechtel will turn any thread into a Israel-Palestine thread. NIMBY!

I'm not the one that brought Israel into the thread.
 
I disagree. China doesn't mind religion. China hates any organization that attempts to put itself above the state--and that includes all the Judaeo-Christian religions. They don't have a problem with religions like Buddhism that do not attempt to usurp the role of supreme authority.

Oh, for fucks sake. China is a totalitarian police state. What about that don't you grasp? People don't have freedom in that country. None. China hates any organisation that isn't the Chinese government. If you want to make a career in that country the straight and narrow path you're forced to walk on is ludicrously narrow. Successful people who refuse to tow the party line are harassed until they break. You know the water boarding debate we've had in the west? I'm sure the army of torturers working for the Chinese government are laughing about it while they sharpen their tools. These people torture innocent civilians on any flimsy pretext. And they do it on a systematic massive scale. It's a torture machine to keep people in constant terror. If you want to do anything remotely unorthodox in China you have to try pretty fucking hard to stay under the radar. Which means living a completely secret life in constant fear of being busted.

Being actively and openly religious in China is like being openly gay in Uganda. It's no fun. Please remove your rose tinted Western glasses. It's pretty offensive actually. Please talk to somebody who has lived in a totalitarian state. It's institutionalised insanity. This kind of government is, for want of a better term, pure evil. It's social control taken to an absurd extreme impossible to imagine if you haven't experienced it. My ex wife grew up in Hungary. So I know a bit about this. But that was a pretty mild version of communism. China is not a mild version. China is as bad as USSR was.

You don't seem to understand the distinction I'm making. It's not religion that's the issue, it's not recognizing the state as the ultimate authority. Any organization that says there's someone else you should obey instead is hated--it doesn't matter if it's a religious organization or not. It's just religions are some of the main groups that hold that there's some higher authority than the state.

As for Hungary--I've been in both Hungary (during the Iron Curtain times) and China (in modern times). There's a world of difference. Behind the Iron Curtain people blindly feared the police. I don't see that blind fear in China.

A simple example: Some years back we were in a market looking at DVDs--my wife was trying to find some tv shows she wanted. Everything we were finding was movies instead. A merchant that noted that she kept looking and not finding what she wanted approached us, he had a variety of other stuff nearby. She hadn't realized how much things had opened up, at first she didn't realize that what he really was selling was porno (Note: such material is not legal in China.) Once she realized it she told him that wasn't what she was looking for and we walked off--and he kept following us trying to get us to come see his wares. (The merchants can be quite persistent when they think a foreigner might be interested in buying.) A cop soon noticed the situation and told him to quit it--and he was talking back to the cop at the point we walked off.

Talking back to the cop like that would never happen in a police state!
 
Of course nobody is orchestrating a refugee crisis. None of the fighting sides want people to leave. They're not really fighting over land. They're fighting over people. Less people = less power. Why would Russia benefit from a destabilised Europe? Europe is Russias main trading partner. Russians making money is Putin's best guarantee for staying in power. Obviously he wants a strong and stable Europe. Why would the Assad regime give a rats ass about Europe? I would have though Assad has enough on his plate as it is. This is just such dumb shit.

It's either dumb shit or quite clever shit. I think it's probably quite clever shit.

And Putin is quite barmy so I wouldn't go making assumptions on what he wants based on rationale.
 
I just have to turn my back for one second and Loren Pechtel will turn any thread into a Israel-Palestine thread. NIMBY!

I'm not the one that brought Israel into the thread.

Isn't trying to blame who started it the entire problem with the conflict? The important thing isn't who starts it, it's who is keeping it going
 
I'm not the one that brought Israel into the thread.

Isn't trying to blame who started it the entire problem with the conflict? The important thing isn't who starts it, it's who is keeping it going

Extreme elements of both sides have kept this going. They depend on each other for support from their own communities.
 
I disagree. China doesn't mind religion. China hates any organization that attempts to put itself above the state--and that includes all the Judaeo-Christian religions. They don't have a problem with religions like Buddhism that do not attempt to usurp the role of supreme authority.

Oh, for fucks sake. China is a totalitarian police state. What about that don't you grasp? People don't have freedom in that country. None. China hates any organisation that isn't the Chinese government. If you want to make a career in that country the straight and narrow path you're forced to walk on is ludicrously narrow. Successful people who refuse to tow the party line are harassed until they break. You know the water boarding debate we've had in the west? I'm sure the army of torturers working for the Chinese government are laughing about it while they sharpen their tools. These people torture innocent civilians on any flimsy pretext. And they do it on a systematic massive scale. It's a torture machine to keep people in constant terror. If you want to do anything remotely unorthodox in China you have to try pretty fucking hard to stay under the radar. Which means living a completely secret life in constant fear of being busted.

Being actively and openly religious in China is like being openly gay in Uganda. It's no fun. Please remove your rose tinted Western glasses. It's pretty offensive actually. Please talk to somebody who has lived in a totalitarian state. It's institutionalised insanity. This kind of government is, for want of a better term, pure evil. It's social control taken to an absurd extreme impossible to imagine if you haven't experienced it. My ex wife grew up in Hungary. So I know a bit about this. But that was a pretty mild version of communism. China is not a mild version. China is as bad as USSR was.

The Chinese like to use discussion reasoning and persuading. According to a Chinese doctor some years ago, her father fought for the Nationalists as an the Chinese civil war. He was captured by the communists and per his understanding spies would be immediately shot.
He was taken to a room in the basement of a grand building that housed the new communist authorities and waited for his fate. Some guards came for him and took him to meet the local miitary leaders.

They were about to start dinner and the commander invited him to join them as a guest as he had two proposals for him.
As they ate and talked about the war and things in general, the commander stated

The first choice is you join the PLA and retain your rank as an intelligence officer for the new government. He asked what the second choice is, and the commander said, "You will be taken out and shot."
Needless to say he lived to tell the tale.
The Chinese tend to prefer electric shocks rather than water boarding. It's less messy with water being splashed about.

China does have freedom of religion to express one's membership of the State controlled Patriotic Church. After all Lenin said religion was the opiate of the people, so its worked hard to keep its population high.

Chinese media even goes as far as to say that Christianity has expanded since 1949. It is true in a sense. St Joseph's Church stands in China's Wanfujing Street
It even allows eight opposition parties, who just conveniently happen to be very small and are pro government. The Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association was set up in 1957. The Pope was essentially given the bum's rush and its priests are not recognized by the Vatican.

However its Archbishop Joseph Li Shang is one of the very few recognized by the Vatican.
Nonetheless China has developed economically under the communists despite many faults. Of course when in China don't get involved in Politics unless its in support of the government.


I took some photos of that Cathedral a few days ago.
 
Oh, for fucks sake. China is a totalitarian police state. What about that don't you grasp? People don't have freedom in that country. None. China hates any organisation that isn't the Chinese government. If you want to make a career in that country the straight and narrow path you're forced to walk on is ludicrously narrow. Successful people who refuse to tow the party line are harassed until they break. You know the water boarding debate we've had in the west? I'm sure the army of torturers working for the Chinese government are laughing about it while they sharpen their tools. These people torture innocent civilians on any flimsy pretext. And they do it on a systematic massive scale. It's a torture machine to keep people in constant terror. If you want to do anything remotely unorthodox in China you have to try pretty fucking hard to stay under the radar. Which means living a completely secret life in constant fear of being busted.

Being actively and openly religious in China is like being openly gay in Uganda. It's no fun. Please remove your rose tinted Western glasses. It's pretty offensive actually. Please talk to somebody who has lived in a totalitarian state. It's institutionalised insanity. This kind of government is, for want of a better term, pure evil. It's social control taken to an absurd extreme impossible to imagine if you haven't experienced it. My ex wife grew up in Hungary. So I know a bit about this. But that was a pretty mild version of communism. China is not a mild version. China is as bad as USSR was.

You don't seem to understand the distinction I'm making. It's not religion that's the issue, it's not recognizing the state as the ultimate authority. Any organization that says there's someone else you should obey instead is hated--it doesn't matter if it's a religious organization or not. It's just religions are some of the main groups that hold that there's some higher authority than the state.

As for Hungary--I've been in both Hungary (during the Iron Curtain times) and China (in modern times). There's a world of difference. Behind the Iron Curtain people blindly feared the police. I don't see that blind fear in China.

A simple example: Some years back we were in a market looking at DVDs--my wife was trying to find some tv shows she wanted. Everything we were finding was movies instead. A merchant that noted that she kept looking and not finding what she wanted approached us, he had a variety of other stuff nearby. She hadn't realized how much things had opened up, at first she didn't realize that what he really was selling was porno (Note: such material is not legal in China.) Once she realized it she told him that wasn't what she was looking for and we walked off--and he kept following us trying to get us to come see his wares. (The merchants can be quite persistent when they think a foreigner might be interested in buying.) A cop soon noticed the situation and told him to quit it--and he was talking back to the cop at the point we walked off.

Talking back to the cop like that would never happen in a police state!

Making something illegal in China doesn't make it unpopular.
According to Chinese TV, Cops are being trained to be more cooperative with the public. It's only on my last visit I have actually seen police patrols (Wanfujing street).

In the past they were generally polite when giving a ticket even if the motorist is rude. (As I have seen). I was in a taxi a few years ago and the police stopped him for a minor violation. He tried to drive off quickly but at the next traffic light, the cop had caught up with him on a motor bike and calmly handed him a ticket.
 
You don't seem to understand the distinction I'm making. It's not religion that's the issue, it's not recognizing the state as the ultimate authority. Any organization that says there's someone else you should obey instead is hated--it doesn't matter if it's a religious organization or not. It's just religions are some of the main groups that hold that there's some higher authority than the state.

As for Hungary--I've been in both Hungary (during the Iron Curtain times) and China (in modern times). There's a world of difference. Behind the Iron Curtain people blindly feared the police. I don't see that blind fear in China.

A simple example: Some years back we were in a market looking at DVDs--my wife was trying to find some tv shows she wanted. Everything we were finding was movies instead. A merchant that noted that she kept looking and not finding what she wanted approached us, he had a variety of other stuff nearby. She hadn't realized how much things had opened up, at first she didn't realize that what he really was selling was porno (Note: such material is not legal in China.) Once she realized it she told him that wasn't what she was looking for and we walked off--and he kept following us trying to get us to come see his wares. (The merchants can be quite persistent when they think a foreigner might be interested in buying.) A cop soon noticed the situation and told him to quit it--and he was talking back to the cop at the point we walked off.

Talking back to the cop like that would never happen in a police state!

Making something illegal in China doesn't make it unpopular.
According to Chinese TV, Cops are being trained to be more cooperative with the public. It's only on my last visit I have actually seen police patrols (Wanfujing street).

In the past they were generally polite when giving a ticket even if the motorist is rude. (As I have seen). I was in a taxi a few years ago and the police stopped him for a minor violation. He tried to drive off quickly but at the next traffic light, the cop had caught up with him on a motor bike and calmly handed him a ticket.

1) While I can't remember exactly when this was it was at least a decade ago--a current trend towards being more polite has nothing to do with it.

2) The important issue wasn't anything about polite or not, but rather with how the people viewed the police. In a police state there's no way that DVD seller would have resisted the cop's telling him to knock it off. China is a dictatorship but it is not a police state!
 
Isn't trying to blame who started it the entire problem with the conflict? The important thing isn't who starts it, it's who is keeping it going

Extreme elements of both sides have kept this going. They depend on each other for support from their own communities.

Israel has full control. It could have peace negotiations any time it wants.

It does not want them.

That would end it's taking of land.
 
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