Europe submits voluntarily

[DrZoidberg]

^^ Sometimes the source is less important than the message!

Messages from untrustworthy, unreliable sources are completely worthless.

You only give the Daily Fail credit because they support your prejudices.

Oh for the love of god!

Let me Google Östersund sex attacks for you...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Swedish-town-after-spate-of-sex-attacks.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/women-sweden-warned-not-go-7521297

http://www.thelocal.se/20160308/backlash-begins-after-swedish-women-told-not-to-go-out-alone

Let's unpack this.

1) Sometimes rapes take place.
2) An extremely rare subset of these are women getting jumped outdoors by unknown perpetrators.
3) Serial rapists jumping women outdoors we don't even have one a decade in Sweden.
3) The description of the perpetrator is Middle-Eastern.

It could be one of the refugees. But doesn't have to be. There's no connection to the recent refugee crisis.

The extreme rarity of this type of rape makes it pointless to do a statistical analysis. In order for it to be any point to make predictions based on statistics you need a population of events. We don't have enough. Serial rapists who jump women outdoors, like this... this is the first one I've heard of in Sweden that isn't ethnically Swedish. But again, it's such a rare event that it's impossible to deduce anything from it.

Racists in Sweden have from this single rapist concluded that all refugees rape women somehow, or something along those lines. That's why they're going nuts and why this is news.

What events like this demonstrate is how extraordinary safe Sweden is compared to most other countries.

Again it's statistics. If you drive in 100,000 British football supporters the amount of bar fights will increase somewhat though slightly.
If you drive in more migrants the amount of crime will increase somewhat though slightly.

I think you're still struggling to grasp how statistics work. You need a population of events to start calculating odds. Earthquakes is a good example. We don't have enough of them to be able to make reliable calculations on when the next one is going to be. So no, we don't actually know that the 1 131 (yes, I looked it up *) will drive up violent rapes by an unknown attacker. Oh, look... Wikipedia delivers. I can stop trying to explain how this works. Just read the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_events

* http://www.lansstyrelsen.se/jamtlan...lle/integration/Pages/Flyktingmottagning.aspx

 

[DrZoidberg]

To get an even news service, isn't it better to look at all the sources then use your own rational mind to sort the hay from the chaff?

But why are you even reading tabloids at all?!? This would assume that there are media outlets downplaying crime perpetrated by a certain group. I know that this is a common accusation on liberal media by racist media. But every time they're called on their bullshit they never have anything to back it up with.

Let's for sake of argument that 50% of all media try to report the news as accurately as possible. And 50% are just fear-mongering sensationalists (ie liars). If I would follow your advice I'd still end up 25% wrong. The entire problem is that you're giving credence to tabloids. Everybody knows tabloids are just full of shit. Don't you? Sure, there's no such thing as objective or perfect reporting. But tabloids (ie Daily Mail) aren't even trying. It's about as factually true as Lord of the Rings is an accurate depiction of WW2.

 

[TSwizzle]

So here's Sweden's main and most reliable newspaper. The BBC of Sweden, you could say.

The BBC ?!! Christ, how do you expect anyone to take your seriously ? The BBC is the worst of the lot in terms of bias. An establishment mouthpiece every bit as bad a Pravda.

 

[whichphilosophy]

So here's Sweden's main and most reliable newspaper. The BBC of Sweden, you could say.

The BBC ?!! Christ, how do you expect anyone to take your seriously ? The BBC is the worst of the lot in terms of bias. An establishment mouthpiece every bit as bad a Pravda.

Do you mean the British Brainwashing Corporation.

 

[whichphilosophy]

This is true, and more so than most media. However since it is not capable of independent reporting and tends to cut and paste reports from others. While you could cite fruit from the poisonous tree, it can still be capable of producing information that is true in whole or part.

We've established that it isn't true in Daily Mails case. They're just making shit up. The linked articles from them used in this thread have just been utter bullshit.

This not in dispute.
The qualifications to work for this publication are:
Unable to tell the truth
The inability to find a hooker in a whorehouse.

Now sometimes by accident it may cut and past something that is true. (If it edits anything this will be not just editing for grammar but altering the report it received).

- - - Updated - - -

^^ Sometimes the source is less important than the message!

Messages from untrustworthy, unreliable sources are completely worthless.

You only give the Daily Fail credit because they support your prejudices.

Oh for the love of god!

Let me Google Östersund sex attacks for you...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Swedish-town-after-spate-of-sex-attacks.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/women-sweden-warned-not-go-7521297

http://www.thelocal.se/20160308/backlash-begins-after-swedish-women-told-not-to-go-out-alone

Let's unpack this.

1) Sometimes rapes take place.
2) An extremely rare subset of these are women getting jumped outdoors by unknown perpetrators.
3) Serial rapists jumping women outdoors we don't even have one a decade in Sweden.
3) The description of the perpetrator is Middle-Eastern.

It could be one of the refugees. But doesn't have to be. There's no connection to the recent refugee crisis.

The extreme rarity of this type of rape makes it pointless to do a statistical analysis. In order for it to be any point to make predictions based on statistics you need a population of events. We don't have enough. Serial rapists who jump women outdoors, like this... this is the first one I've heard of in Sweden that isn't ethnically Swedish. But again, it's such a rare event that it's impossible to deduce anything from it.

Racists in Sweden have from this single rapist concluded that all refugees rape women somehow, or something along those lines. That's why they're going nuts and why this is news.

What events like this demonstrate is how extraordinary safe Sweden is compared to most other countries.

Again it's statistics. If you drive in 100,000 British football supporters the amount of bar fights will increase somewhat though slightly.
If you drive in more migrants the amount of crime will increase somewhat though slightly.

I think you're still struggling to grasp how statistics work. You need a population of events to start calculating odds. Earthquakes is a good example. We don't have enough of them to be able to make reliable calculations on when the next one is going to be. So no, we don't actually know that the 1 131 (yes, I looked it up *) will drive up violent rapes by an unknown attacker. Oh, look... Wikipedia delivers. I can stop trying to explain how this works. Just read the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_events

* http://www.lansstyrelsen.se/jamtlan...lle/integration/Pages/Flyktingmottagning.aspx

You need a population of people. These are actions not 'Acts of God'

 

[DrZoidberg]

So here's Sweden's main and most reliable newspaper. The BBC of Sweden, you could say.

The BBC ?!! Christ, how do you expect anyone to take your seriously ? The BBC is the worst of the lot in terms of bias. An establishment mouthpiece every bit as bad a Pravda.

"Worst of the lot"? This does explain why you are so wrong about stuff.

 

[untermensche]

A serious work that looks at bias in the media and tries to come up with a hypothesis is Hermann and Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent".

They examined the influence on the message in the media from government and corporate interests.

They make a compelling case for a strong bias in the American corporate media for reporting the story the government gives as fact, despite any facts to the contrary, and portraying corporations as a positive force in the world, despite the many many facts to the contrary. The work mainly focused on the large "agenda setting" media. Of course today, if one is willing to do a research project, there are many sides to stories presented. This is good and bad. It can expose government crimes but also foster conspiracy thinking.

They did not look at media like the BBC.

But the desire of any government to shape the message in the media is a given.

 

[TSwizzle]

But why are you even reading tabloids at all?!? This would assume that there are media outlets downplaying crime perpetrated by a certain group. I know that this is a common accusation on liberal media by racist media. But every time they're called on their bullshit they never have anything to back it up with.

Let's for sake of argument that 50% of all media try to report the news as accurately as possible. And 50% are just fear-mongering sensationalists (ie liars). If I would follow your advice I'd still end up 25% wrong. The entire problem is that you're giving credence to tabloids. Everybody knows tabloids are just full of shit. Don't you? Sure, there's no such thing as objective or perfect reporting. But tabloids (ie Daily Mail) aren't even trying. It's about as factually true as Lord of the Rings is an accurate depiction of WW2.

Well if we employ your tactics; "adjust" the statistics, "redefine" truth/accuracy, Bob's your uncle ! You get what you like to hear. But only from those outlets you deem acceptable. Not those tabloids that the oiks read, if they can actually read.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You need a population of people. These are actions not 'Acts of God'

In this case there were no successful rapes that had taken place. The news (in Sweden) wasn't the attempted rapes. The news was how badly the police handled it. There's no evidence that the women of Östersund are terrified or scared of getting raped. I haven't seen anything about it. And I have tried finding some information.

Most of the "attempted rapes" fell in the category of "sexuellt ofredande". Which is inappropriate sexual conduct and also the lowest degree of sexual transgressions. It's stuff like pinching a women's butt or yelling at a woman across the street that she has "nice hooters. Can I touch them?" Clearly inappropriate. But a far cry from rape and hardly anything that any woman would get terribly distressed about. It's annoying. Not a source of terror.

The Daily Mail took this and ran with it. As if the women of Östersund lived in terror or as if there's some sort of rape epidemic going on. There's no news here. The Daily Mail made something out of nothing. Go to any beach resort around the Mediterranean and they have a hundred times worse stuff every weekend and nobody there gives a shit. I've been out clubbing in Barcelona. Women there have to be careful. Not in Sweden.

Also, a Swedish city during winter being deserted at night is normal. It's fucking cold outside. People stay indoors as much as possible.

 

[whichphilosophy]

You need a population of people. These are actions not 'Acts of God'

In this case there were no successful rapes that had taken place. The news (in Sweden) wasn't the attempted rapes. The news was how badly the police handled it. There's no evidence that the women of Östersund are terrified or scared of getting raped. I haven't seen anything about it. And I have tried finding some information.

Most of the "attempted rapes" fell in the category of "sexuellt ofredande". Which is inappropriate sexual conduct and also the lowest degree of sexual transgressions. It's stuff like pinching a women's butt or yelling at a woman across the street that she has "nice hooters. Can I touch them?" Clearly inappropriate. But a far cry from rape and hardly anything that any woman would get terribly distressed about. It's annoying. Not a source of terror.

The Daily Mail took this and ran with it. As if the women of Östersund lived in terror or as if there's some sort of rape epidemic going on. There's no news here. The Daily Mail made something out of nothing. Go to any beach resort around the Mediterranean and they have a hundred times worse stuff every weekend and nobody there gives a shit. I've been out clubbing in Barcelona. Women there have to be careful. Not in Sweden.

Also, a Swedish city during winter being deserted at night is normal. It's fucking cold outside. People stay indoors as much as possible.

As I mentioned, before the percentage is very small but given large numbers, there will be some increase in bad behaviour.


However I would not doubt for one minute what you say about the Daily Mail is correct. Reporting at best is done in the Editor's office, so no investigative journalism is needed.
It even backed Hilter and the brownshirts of Sir Oswald Mosely.
https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=...tHY3JM:;Bamar8IEvMHgwM:&imgrc=YfuKNWmctHY3JM:

There has been in increase in inappropriate behaviour which I think has been amplified at times but nonetheless occurred. I do believe the mass gropings at Stockholm Station is most likely not to have happened as nothing was reported after this.

 

[angelo]

Deleted.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Stop pretending that you have read the Koran. It is some dense boring bullshit and there is no way in hell you made it through.

The hadiths make interesting reading. No, I got to around a quarter. But as I understand it, not many muzzies have ever read the plagiarized thing as well. They get their Islam through shieks and imams.

I agree with some Muslims who say the Hadiths are simply take offs and different interpretations by others. When people, especially illiterates rely on local preachers even more distortions can occur.
In my view if I was reading the Christian bible or old testament, I would prefer to make my own conclusions. That is whether or not I believe the bible to be true, but I would prefer to form my own conclusions as to what it says.
There's a lot of pretty terrible stuff in the bibles as well as the Koran.

 

[angelo]

The hadiths make interesting reading. No, I got to around a quarter. But as I understand it, not many muzzies have ever read the plagiarized thing as well. They get their Islam through shieks and imams.

I agree with some Muslims who say the Hadiths are simply take offs and different interpretations by others. When people, especially illiterates rely on local preachers even more distortions can occur.
In my view if I was reading the Christian bible or old testament, I would prefer to make my own conclusions. That is whether or not I believe the bible to be true, but I would prefer to form my own conclusions as to what it says.
There's a lot of pretty terrible stuff in the bibles as well as the Koran.

Islam's apologist say that over and over, as if one bad idea is better than other. Nothing could be further from the truth. The babble has a " New Testament." It spawned a religion which abides by " The Golden Rule." Islam has no such thing. In fact it's anti the Golden Rule because it's a duellistic ideology, not just a religion. It flourishes on deception and hatred of Fakirs. A moslem will and is encouraged lie to a Fakir if it furthers islam. There's no such ideology in xtianity!

 

[bilby]

I agree with some Muslims who say the Hadiths are simply take offs and different interpretations by others. When people, especially illiterates rely on local preachers even more distortions can occur.
In my view if I was reading the Christian bible or old testament, I would prefer to make my own conclusions. That is whether or not I believe the bible to be true, but I would prefer to form my own conclusions as to what it says.
There's a lot of pretty terrible stuff in the bibles as well as the Koran.

Islam's apologist say that over and over, as if one bad idea is better than other. Nothing could be further from the truth. The babble has a " New Testament." It spawned a religion which abides by " The Golden Rule." Islam has no such thing. In fact it's anti the Golden Rule because it's a duellistic ideology, not just a religion. It flourishes on deception and hatred of Fakirs. A moslem will and is encouraged lie to a Fakir if it furthers islam. There's no such ideology in xtianity!

Fakirs are devout Muslim ascetics, usually sufists. They live in poverty and stereotypically engage in apparently painful rituals such as lying on a bed of nails.

I think, as usual, that what you are saying on this topic bears a negative correlation to reality.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Islam's apologist say that over and over, as if one bad idea is better than other. Nothing could be further from the truth. The babble has a " New Testament." It spawned a religion which abides by " The Golden Rule." Islam has no such thing. In fact it's anti the Golden Rule because it's a duellistic ideology, not just a religion. It flourishes on deception and hatred of Fakirs. A moslem will and is encouraged lie to a Fakir if it furthers islam. There's no such ideology in xtianity!

Fakirs are devout Muslim ascetics, usually sufists. They live in poverty and stereotypically engage in apparently painful rituals such as lying on a bed of nails.

I think, as usual, that what you are saying on this topic bears a negative correlation to reality.

This is a general term which can also mean a Hindu devotee. The word is however derived from Arabic faqīr which means poor.
Im not sure whether it is usually sufists

I think Angelo means Kafir (non-believer). In fact being a bit dyslectic myself Kafir and Fakir can easily be muddled up.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Fakirs are devout Muslim ascetics, usually sufists. They live in poverty and stereotypically engage in apparently painful rituals such as lying on a bed of nails.

I think, as usual, that what you are saying on this topic bears a negative correlation to reality.

This is a general term which can also mean a Hindu devotee. The word is however derived from Arabic faqīr which means poor.
Im not sure whether it is usually sufists

I think Angelo means Kafir (non-believer). In fact being a bit dyslectic myself Kafir and Fakir can easily be muddled up.

Sufis are my favourite type of Muslim. I should say "favourite". They're mystics. They think that the nature of God is inherently a mystery and we therefore cannot say anything about God. Is the most extreme, backward and conservative version of Islam. I think that's amusing. One could argue that the reason for this is that they live in the mountains and are desperately poor and it's a shit life in general. And religion has nothing to do with it. Christians living in the same region have the exact same values. Honour killings being an example. Just as prevalent.

Sufi culture is the most extreme case of argument from ignorance it's possible to find in any religious teaching. Wahabists at least argue that God said all these things. Not Sufis.

 

[whichphilosophy]

This is a general term which can also mean a Hindu devotee. The word is however derived from Arabic faqīr which means poor.
Im not sure whether it is usually sufists

I think Angelo means Kafir (non-believer). In fact being a bit dyslectic myself Kafir and Fakir can easily be muddled up.

Sufis are my favourite type of Muslim. I should say "favourite". They're mystics. They think that the nature of God is inherently a mystery and we therefore cannot say anything about God. Is the most extreme, backward and conservative version of Islam. I think that's amusing. One could argue that the reason for this is that they live in the mountains and are desperately poor and it's a shit life in general. And religion has nothing to do with it. Christians living in the same region have the exact same values. Honour killings being an example. Just as prevalent.

Sufi culture is the most extreme case of argument from ignorance it's possible to find in any religious teaching. Wahabists at least argue that God said all these things. Not Sufis.

Islam is of course in reality also fragmented into several small groups. For those who claim Islam is God's law, there are so many opinions and schools of thoughts as to what God's Law actually is. Therefore a democracy even in a theocracy would make sense.

Once Islam takes over Europe, I hope there will be a reformation in Islam as did Christianity. Otherwise there will be infighting and conflicts with other groups (just as Christianity experienced, and still does in several areas).

 

[angelo]

Fakirs are devout Muslim ascetics, usually sufists. They live in poverty and stereotypically engage in apparently painful rituals such as lying on a bed of nails.

I think, as usual, that what you are saying on this topic bears a negative correlation to reality.

This is a general term which can also mean a Hindu devotee. The word is however derived from Arabic faqīr which means poor.
Im not sure whether it is usually sufists

I think Angelo means Kafir (non-believer). In fact being a bit dyslectic myself Kafir and Fakir can easily be muddled up.

My apologies. It is Kafir! [ non believers, atheists, xtians, jews, Hindus, Buddhists, all non muslims]

 

[whichphilosophy]

This is a general term which can also mean a Hindu devotee. The word is however derived from Arabic faqīr which means poor.
Im not sure whether it is usually sufists

I think Angelo means Kafir (non-believer). In fact being a bit dyslectic myself Kafir and Fakir can easily be muddled up.

My apologies. It is Kafir! [ non believers, atheists, xtians, jews, Hindus, Buddhists, all non muslims]

Some people may at first mistake this or Kaffir for a black person and once considered non offensive. It but actually it comes from the same Arabic root.

 

[angelo]

Isn't the word Kafir Arabic for non believer?