Europe submits voluntarily

[whichphilosophy]

The Islamic ideology has destroyed most of the Middle East. It will just continue once Europe is islaminised.

This would be the actions of Muslims aided and abetted by the West in order to control oil. There are also wars going on such as in Yemen. The Bibles and Koran all contain war and retribution.
Several things could happen. Once it takes over Europe within a century it may change as did Christianity. It may be influenced by Science and evolution. It may allow different beliefs which are allowed in many Islamic countries. Islam itself could go into decline and or splinter further where new religions and lack of religion could emerge. Maybe Saudi may be overturned by a revolt of its own people though the US currently won't let that happen.

We can only speculate at this stage and perhaps see if anyone is writing any novels about the future..

 

[angelo]

The Islamic ideology has destroyed most of the Middle East. It will just continue once Europe is islaminised.

This would be the actions of Muslims aided and abetted by the West in order to control oil. There are also wars going on such as in Yemen. The Bibles and Koran all contain war and retribution.
Several things could happen. Once it takes over Europe within a century it may change as did Christianity. It may be influenced by Science and evolution. It may allow different beliefs which are allowed in many Islamic countries. Islam itself could go into decline and or splinter further where new religions and lack of religion could emerge. Maybe Saudi may be overturned by a revolt of its own people though the US currently won't let that happen.

We can only speculate at this stage and perhaps see if anyone is writing any novels about the future..

All the evidence points the other way. Islam doesn't allow dissent as does xtianity. It will be brave pussycats who would attempt to modernise Islam!

 

[DrZoidberg]

This would be the actions of Muslims aided and abetted by the West in order to control oil. There are also wars going on such as in Yemen. The Bibles and Koran all contain war and retribution.
Several things could happen. Once it takes over Europe within a century it may change as did Christianity. It may be influenced by Science and evolution. It may allow different beliefs which are allowed in many Islamic countries. Islam itself could go into decline and or splinter further where new religions and lack of religion could emerge. Maybe Saudi may be overturned by a revolt of its own people though the US currently won't let that happen.

We can only speculate at this stage and perhaps see if anyone is writing any novels about the future..

All the evidence points the other way. Islam doesn't allow dissent as does xtianity. It will be brave pussycats who would attempt to modernise Islam!

The first of the ten commandments forbids having other gods. This isn't a question of personal conscience. Back in the day when only Jews had these the point of them was social control. Jews had a religious requirement to stop other Jews from worshipping other gods. There's quite a lot about that in the Old Testament. It's like a theme. When Christianity became the dominant faith, they started doing the same thing, forbidding people from having other religions. Then the Enlightenment happened and Christians started reinterpreting the Bible to allow for other people to have other gods. Even though it went right against the first (and arguably most sacred) rule in Christianity. Islam has the same commandments.

There is no difference at all in how severely the Abrahamic religion forbids dissent. These religions aren't compatible with modern democracy one iota. These religions aren't compatible with free speech and choice of religion at all. Yet, modern Christians seem to manage ignoring these bits just fine. Jews in Israel do allow Muslims to live in Israel. They're downright liberal considering what their holy book says.

How do you explain that USA and Australia allows different religions even though both countries have a mostly Christian population? You harp on and on about how Islam doesn't allow this that and the other. But all Abrahamic religions are just as intolerant.

 

[whichphilosophy]

All the evidence points the other way. Islam doesn't allow dissent as does xtianity. It will be brave pussycats who would attempt to modernise Islam!

The first of the ten commandments forbids having other gods. This isn't a question of personal conscience. Back in the day when only Jews had these the point of them was social control. Jews had a religious requirement to stop other Jews from worshipping other gods. There's quite a lot about that in the Old Testament. It's like a theme. When Christianity became the dominant faith, they started doing the same thing, forbidding people from having other religions. Then the Enlightenment happened and Christians started reinterpreting the Bible to allow for other people to have other gods. Even though it went right against the first (and arguably most sacred) rule in Christianity. Islam has the same commandments.

There is no difference at all in how severely the Abrahamic religion forbids dissent. These religions aren't compatible with modern democracy one iota. These religions aren't compatible with free speech and choice of religion at all. Yet, modern Christians seem to manage ignoring these bits just fine. Jews in Israel do allow Muslims to live in Israel. They're downright liberal considering what their holy book says.

How do you explain that USA and Australia allows different religions even though both countries have a mostly Christian population? You harp on and on about how Islam doesn't allow this that and the other. But all Abrahamic religions are just as intolerant.

This is true. Though some young Muslims (just a few) are radicalizing (though I call it sexualizing towards sex and death cults like ISIS) the hope is that many will be enough to liberalize Islam as it takes over as the main religion in Europe.

 

[untermensche]

All the evidence points the other way. Islam doesn't allow dissent as does xtianity. It will be brave pussycats who would attempt to modernise Islam!

When Christians had real power they acted exactly the same way.

The division between state and religion is the difference, not the religion.

 

[DrZoidberg]

All the evidence points the other way. Islam doesn't allow dissent as does xtianity. It will be brave pussycats who would attempt to modernise Islam!

When Christians had real power they acted exactly the same way.

The division between state and religion is the difference, not the religion.

Just thought I'd point out that the division between state and religion is not a requirement for making it free to chose religion. Church and state isn't separate in the UK, and it's one of the world's most atheist countries. Freedom of religion and church state division are completely different things.

 

[TSwizzle]

But all Abrahamic religions are just as intolerant.

Teh islam is quiet exceptional in this regard. Your postulations to the contrary are not in evidence, other than in your own imagination that is.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But all Abrahamic religions are just as intolerant.

Teh islam is quiet exceptional in this regard. Your postulations to the contrary are not in evidence, other than in your own imagination that is.

I'm bored with your filtered reality. Jog on.

 

[TSwizzle]

I'm bored with your filtered reality.

That makes me so sad.

 

[whichphilosophy]

But all Abrahamic religions are just as intolerant.

Teh islam is quiet exceptional in this regard. Your postulations to the contrary are not in evidence, other than in your own imagination that is.

The Writings are just as intolerant in Abrahamic and Islamic scriptures as they share the same roots. As for individuals this varies. Since we are now open to millions from these countries who simple have to turn up, it is now a matter of 2 or 3 generations before we start seeing societies with high levels or majority Muslim voters who can decide which government will take power.

Those settled in the West will send money for more relatives to work and so the influx will expand in terms of legal and illegal migration.

The only question now is how Islam would change as it takes over Europe. Could other things intervene that would also lead to its decline or will it eventually simply replace Christianity where the government absorb the current democratic structures or develop into these over time?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Teh islam is quiet exceptional in this regard. Your postulations to the contrary are not in evidence, other than in your own imagination that is.

The Writings are just as intolerant in Abrahamic and Islamic scriptures as they share the same roots. As for individuals this varies. Since we are now open to millions from these countries who simple have to turn up, it is now a matter of 2 or 3 generations before we start seeing societies with high levels or majority Muslim voters who can decide which government will take power.

Those settled in the West will send money for more relatives to work and so the influx will expand in terms of legal and illegal migration.

The only question now is how Islam would change as it takes over Europe. Could other things intervene that would also lead to its decline or will it eventually simply replace Christianity where the government absorb the current democratic structures or develop into these over time?

Sweden has quite a few Muslim immigrant politicians. Even on senior posts. Unsurprisingly they're just as liberal freedom loving as their non-immigrant counter-parts.

Worth noting is that these haven't been voted into power by a Muslim power base. Sweden doesn't have that system. In Sweden we vote for political parties. So these are power based on their ideological opinions. Also unsurpringly these are all over the map.

 

[TSwizzle]

More uncomfortable truths about which way Europe headed;

British Muslims disagree with the rest of the country on a range of key issues such as sexuality, freedom of speech and polygamy, according to new research. A poll carried out by ICM discovered that more than half of Muslims disagree with homosexuality being legal in Britain, while a quarter support Sharia law being introduced into parts of the country instead of British law. The full findings will feature in a Channel 4 documentary presented by Trevor Phillips, former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, on Wednesday.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-quarter-support-areas-UK-run-sharia-law.html

Former equal rights chief Phillips, who speaks to several members of the Muslim community on their views during the documentary, states that 'the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task' the country has ever faced. He told The Sunday Times Magazine: 'I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into the landscape. I should have known better.

Indeed.

 

[whichphilosophy]

More uncomfortable truths about which way Europe headed;

British Muslims disagree with the rest of the country on a range of key issues such as sexuality, freedom of speech and polygamy, according to new research. A poll carried out by ICM discovered that more than half of Muslims disagree with homosexuality being legal in Britain, while a quarter support Sharia law being introduced into parts of the country instead of British law. The full findings will feature in a Channel 4 documentary presented by Trevor Phillips, former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, on Wednesday.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-quarter-support-areas-UK-run-sharia-law.html

Former equal rights chief Phillips, who speaks to several members of the Muslim community on their views during the documentary, states that 'the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task' the country has ever faced. He told The Sunday Times Magazine: 'I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into the landscape. I should have known better.

Indeed.

I'm not sure if integration is necessary a resolution to any problems of people getting on. The Jews and Chinese are good examples of people who kept to themselves but they couldn't care less what others thought or did. The problem is in the numbers. Added to this, since many even refuse to give ID and finger prints it is more difficult to identify and possible real criminals.
For instance criminals from North Africa (vs North African) have been riding on the immigration train where they seem to have been the main group causing problems.

Just as we have Jewish or Christian courts, we also have Sharia Courts. The Muslim Arbitration Tribunal (MAT) appears to be following English Law but others are not. I work in a country which has Sharia Law. Some of the applications are stupid but some of the civil laws are quite sensible such as 'Good Faith in Contracts. They even go as far as stating a promise to enter into an employment contract is binding on the employer. However as individuals, my Muslim and non Muslim colleagues from the UAE, Egypt Jordon, Syria India and Pakistan etc have less of an understanding of human rights.

Sharia Law is legal in arbitration but must follow the Arbitration Act. It seems some courts do not follow the English Law.

Unless Islam is superseded by something else, I would say Europe is destined to become Islamic within the next 100 years unless it controls economic migration and stops creating wars which bring in refugees. Now that ISIS is on the run we cannot rule out some slipping in with the migrants.

One or two migrants could blend into the Landscape but when we are bussing in enough people each year to fill a few towns then our demographics will change. Negative things such as sweatshops are being imported also from non Muslim countries for work in fruit picking, unloading trucks, shops, car washes and some ethnic restaurants. Estimates as to how many there are, range from 500,000 to one million. Some still make it on a daily basis in trucks coming over from Europe.

 

[angelo]

More uncomfortable truths about which way Europe headed;

British Muslims disagree with the rest of the country on a range of key issues such as sexuality, freedom of speech and polygamy, according to new research. A poll carried out by ICM discovered that more than half of Muslims disagree with homosexuality being legal in Britain, while a quarter support Sharia law being introduced into parts of the country instead of British law. The full findings will feature in a Channel 4 documentary presented by Trevor Phillips, former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, on Wednesday.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-quarter-support-areas-UK-run-sharia-law.html

Former equal rights chief Phillips, who speaks to several members of the Muslim community on their views during the documentary, states that 'the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task' the country has ever faced. He told The Sunday Times Magazine: 'I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into the landscape. I should have known better.

Indeed.

More like mission impossible! What on earth makes these bleeding hearts think Islam can be integrated with Western culture!

 

[whichphilosophy]

More uncomfortable truths about which way Europe headed;



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-quarter-support-areas-UK-run-sharia-law.html

Former equal rights chief Phillips, who speaks to several members of the Muslim community on their views during the documentary, states that 'the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task' the country has ever faced. He told The Sunday Times Magazine: 'I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into the landscape. I should have known better.

Indeed.

More like mission impossible! What on earth makes these bleeding hearts think Islam can be integrated with Western culture!

I left the UK a few years ago because there were too many Muslims and worked for many years in Abu Dhabi.
Anyway, if you get a chance, try and visit a Muslim country one day. Of course avoid places such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Belgium, Sudan and Syria.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Something which could cause concern is a poll recently conducted by ICM but I am not aware of the exact way the questions were phrased

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/poll-half-muslims-want-homosexuality-banned-010129242.html

A poll carried out by ICM found that 52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.

Commissioned for Channel 4, the poll will feature in a documentary called What British Muslims Really Think, presented by Trevor Phillips - former Equality and Human Rights Commission chairman.

The survey of 1,000 people was carried out to try to understand what British Muslims think, and why some young Muslims are being drawn to violence.

It found only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.

More than one third - 39% - were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".

A large majority of UK Muslims, 86%, said they felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, with 94% saying they felt they were able to freely practise their religion.

But 23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.

Responding to the findings, Mr Phillips said they pose profound questions for society and the implications for future relations between Britain's Muslim and non-Muslim communities.

"Hearing what British Muslims themselves think, rather than listening to those purporting to speak on their behalf, is critical if we are to prevent the establishment of a nation within our nation," he said.

"Many of the results will be troubling to Muslims and non-Muslims alike - and the analysis of the age profile shows us that the social attitudes revealed are unlikely to change quickly.

"The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."

ICM used face-to-face, in-home research to question a representative sample of the 1,000 UK Muslims. END OF QUOTES

While Britain continues to welcome all in a small Island the concerns are as to what will happen in the next 50 years and beyond where I predicted Europe would become Islamic dominated within 100 years unless something happened to offset that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something which could cause concern is a poll recently conducted by ICM but I am not aware of the exact way the questions were phrased

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/poll-half-muslims-want-homosexuality-banned-010129242.html

A poll carried out by ICM found that 52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.

Commissioned for Channel 4, the poll will feature in a documentary called What British Muslims Really Think, presented by Trevor Phillips - former Equality and Human Rights Commission chairman.

The survey of 1,000 people was carried out to try to understand what British Muslims think, and why some young Muslims are being drawn to violence.

It found only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.

More than one third - 39% - were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".

A large majority of UK Muslims, 86%, said they felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, with 94% saying they felt they were able to freely practise their religion.

But 23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.

Responding to the findings, Mr Phillips said they pose profound questions for society and the implications for future relations between Britain's Muslim and non-Muslim communities.

"Hearing what British Muslims themselves think, rather than listening to those purporting to speak on their behalf, is critical if we are to prevent the establishment of a nation within our nation," he said.

"Many of the results will be troubling to Muslims and non-Muslims alike - and the analysis of the age profile shows us that the social attitudes revealed are unlikely to change quickly.

"The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."

ICM used face-to-face, in-home research to question a representative sample of the 1,000 UK Muslims. END OF QUOTES

While Britain continues to welcome all in a small Island the concerns are as to what will happen in the next 50 years and beyond where I predicted Europe would become Islamic dominated within 100 years unless something happened to offset that.

See why some of us worry about Islam?

 

[KeepTalking]

But 23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.

Now, all they need is for Britain to become approximately 105% Muslim, so that they can get a majority to vote in Sharia law.

Yup, seems like something to worry about.

 

[bilby]

Something which could cause concern is a poll recently conducted by ICM but I am not aware of the exact way the questions were phrased

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/poll-half-muslims-want-homosexuality-banned-010129242.html

A poll carried out by ICM found that 52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.

Commissioned for Channel 4, the poll will feature in a documentary called What British Muslims Really Think, presented by Trevor Phillips - former Equality and Human Rights Commission chairman.

The survey of 1,000 people was carried out to try to understand what British Muslims think, and why some young Muslims are being drawn to violence.

It found only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.

More than one third - 39% - were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".

A large majority of UK Muslims, 86%, said they felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, with 94% saying they felt they were able to freely practise their religion.

But 23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.

Responding to the findings, Mr Phillips said they pose profound questions for society and the implications for future relations between Britain's Muslim and non-Muslim communities.

"Hearing what British Muslims themselves think, rather than listening to those purporting to speak on their behalf, is critical if we are to prevent the establishment of a nation within our nation," he said.

"Many of the results will be troubling to Muslims and non-Muslims alike - and the analysis of the age profile shows us that the social attitudes revealed are unlikely to change quickly.

"The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."

ICM used face-to-face, in-home research to question a representative sample of the 1,000 UK Muslims. END OF QUOTES

While Britain continues to welcome all in a small Island the concerns are as to what will happen in the next 50 years and beyond where I predicted Europe would become Islamic dominated within 100 years unless something happened to offset that.

See why some of us worry about Islam?

Yes; It's because you are biased.

https://hatepseudoscience.com/2016/04/12/understanding-bias-what-color-is-this-truck/

You see a statement like "23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced", and your brain goes 'WOW! 23% is a LOT!' - without for an instant considering that this implies that 77% said they would NOT support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced - and 77% is a great deal more than 23%.

If 'only' 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria, that implies that if a radical has more than 3 mates, someone will likely tell the cops if they thought he was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria. Bear in mind, most people (even white middle-class male adults) won't dob someone in to the cops on the mere suspicion that they plan to commit a violent crime; and the question is even less clear-cut than that, as it says 'involved with'; that does NOT necessarily imply supporting nor joining with, and might just mean 'reading the blogs of' or 'chatting online to' - so 34% is a pretty large number, given the question asked. Notice also that the question only says '... if they thought they knew...'. It's a question engineered to get a low response - and it STILL got 34% (more than one in three) saying they would report such activity to the cops.

I was going to ask "What proportion of the non-Muslim population do you think would report someone to the cops on mere suspicion that they were getting involved with violent criminals"? But then I remembered who I was talking to, so I will instead ask "What proportion of the population would a reasonable person think would report someone to the cops on mere suspicion that they were getting involved with violent criminals"?

These figures simply do not constitute a cause for concern - unless you start from the perspective that there MUST BE cause for concern, and are simply looking for an excuse to continue in that belief.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

See why some of us worry about Islam?

Yes; It's because you are biased.

https://hatepseudoscience.com/2016/04/12/understanding-bias-what-color-is-this-truck/

You see a statement like "23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced", and your brain goes 'WOW! 23% is a LOT!' - without for an instant considering that this implies that 77% said they would NOT support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced - and 77% is a great deal more than 23%.

If 'only' 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria, that implies that if a radical has more than 3 mates, someone will likely tell the cops if they thought he was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria. Bear in mind, most people (even white middle-class male adults) won't dob someone in to the cops on the mere suspicion that they plan to commit a violent crime; and the question is even less clear-cut than that, as it says 'involved with'; that does NOT necessarily imply supporting nor joining with, and might just mean 'reading the blogs of' or 'chatting online to' - so 34% is a pretty large number, given the question asked. Notice also that the question only says '... if they thought they knew...'. It's a question engineered to get a low response - and it STILL got 34% (more than one in three) saying they would report such activity to the cops.

I was going to ask "What proportion of the non-Muslim population do you think would report someone to the cops on mere suspicion that they were getting involved with violent criminals"? But then I remembered who I was talking to, so I will instead ask "What proportion of the population would a reasonable person think would report someone to the cops on mere suspicion that they were getting involved with violent criminals"?

These figures simply do not constitute a cause for concern - unless you start from the perspective that there MUST BE cause for concern, and are simply looking for an excuse to continue in that belief.

You think that radical isn't going to be a bit careful about his choice of mates? What that number means is that if he slips up and lets a moderate know his plans he's still got a 2 in 3 chance of not being caught. Let the average Christian know you plan to bomb an abortion clinic and I don't think you have a 2 in 3 chance they won't say something!