Europe submits voluntarily

[repoman]

Saying that national homogeneity needs to be undermined is not a statement like "Climate change is not influenced by fossil fuel burning".

It is a direct advocacy of a course of action that has no scientifically correct or accurate answer like climate change definitively does.

He is neither right or wrong, but people of his tribe often have a dog in the fight. They want ethnically based fascism to be impossible by mutting up Europe, or at least having enough minorities to make immigration reform "racist".

I consider myself a proud pro Bernie Sanders voting antisemite.

 

[bilby]

Saying that national homogeneity needs to be undermined is not a statement like "Climate change is not influenced by fossil fuel burning".

It is a direct advocacy of a course of action that has no scientifically correct or accurate answer like climate change definitively does.

Don't be silly; of course advocating a course of action can be right or wrong - it's all about what your goals are, and whether the action is helping or hindering those goals.

He is neither right or wrong, but people of his tribe often have a dog in the fight.

What fight?

They want ethnically based fascism to be impossible

Good on them

by mutting up Europe, or at least having enough minorities to make immigration reform "racist".

Racism is racist. immigration reform might or might not be, depending on how it is done. And 'mutting up Europe' is a bizzare concept - are you of the impression that Europe does NOT already have wide genetic diversity? You can't 'mutt up' a region whose inhabitants are already all 'mutts'.

I consider myself a proud pro Bernie Sanders voting antisemite.

I am constrained by the forum TOU from saying what I consider you.

But I will just point out that you have not indicated why you felt that implying that Mr Sutherland was Jewish was relevant to any of this. Are you seeking to imply that being Jewish tells us something useful about his motives or goals? You do know that not all Jews share the same set of opinions, don't you?

Your post was completely irrelevant anti-Semitic tripe.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I've met many Arabs. The smartest are the Palestinians who have lived mainly out of Palestine. A lot are engineers and involved in the Oil and Gas industries. I may sound biased here, but British Engineers doing the same job will be faster at decision making more confident and complete their design functions much quicker so as to allow manufacturing to succeed.

When you have substantial emigration in any place expect the ones that leave to be the cream of the crop and what's left behind to be a mess.

In some cases. However, the recent relaxation of security measures means that Europe has also imported a few criminals with some bright people. However only a few of those who are coming in are really bad.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The cultural enrichment and vibrant diversity of the UK causes a conundrum for authorities who have to deal with new "traditions";

A boy as young as eight is among scores of children feared by judges to be at risk of forced marriage as official figures reveal police are struggling to bring cases to court.

The schoolboy – thought to be one of the UK’s youngest known potential victims of forced marriage – is among 71 children, teenagers and women in West Yorkshire guarded by special court orders since 2014.

His case came to light as police figures, obtained by the Guardian, showed that only a fraction of investigations into forced marriage result in a prosecution. Many are dropped because victims are too scared to give evidence against their abuser.

In West Yorkshire, five of the 51 cases investigated since June 2014 resulted in a suspect being charged.Thirty-five of these investigations were dropped due to “evidential difficulties”, of which 16 were “victim-based” problems, the figures show.

There was a similar pattern in the West Midlands, where 19 of its 31 investigations resulted in no charges – eight because the victims did not support further action. There has been one conviction so far under a new forced marriage law introduced in June 2014.

Guardian

It must be quite a challenge for UK authorities to keep up with the new "traditions". They haven't quite got a handle on the FGM yet.

The purpose of forced marriages is often to ensure others can come to England to join their partner. Most Muslims oppose this but with so many people from diverse cultures coming over it is a real problem.

 

[DrZoidberg]

When western countries democratised we had several centuries of total mess. Come again in 200 years and we can compare which culture sucks the most at it.

We learned better. They haven't yet--and they want to impose their system on us. Civilization can't survive that.

1) I don't think we've learned anything. It's rare that westerners understand why democracy works. Hint: it's not our culture

2) who is "they"? This is news to me. People talk a lot of shit. You've got to judge people by their actions. Muslims in Sweden seem very happy about democracy here. Protective about it even. I don't think Muslims in general want a caliphate in Europe. I think it's concentrated to a handful loons, most of which are teenagers.

As I recall when I was a teenager I was at one point communist, later anarchist and I turned out just fine.

3. I'd be more worried about climate change. Compared to that Islam is merely a diversion.

 

[repoman]

3. I'd be more worried about climate change. Compared to that Islam is merely a diversion.

This is sadly true, however if it (and resources and overpopulation as a whole) was not a problem the upcoming seismic demographic/cultural shift that has been allowed/engineered by the European governments would be very serious.

But starving, heat-stroked muslim Europe will not be much worse than a culturally christian mostly atheistic Europe.

However, is this not just a rhetorical device for you once you have admitted that this demographic shift has actually been unleashed by saying "so what, because this other shit..."?

 

[repoman]

Do you think the Muslim, caliphate loving teens are just being edgy and rebellious?

Or is it a form of male bonding to want a caliphate?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Do you think the Muslim, caliphate loving teens are just being edgy and rebellious?

Or is it a form of male bonding to want a caliphate?

It more like being part of a gang and is typical of teenagers around the world when living within different cultures.

 

[DrZoidberg]

3. I'd be more worried about climate change. Compared to that Islam is merely a diversion.

This is sadly true, however if it (and resources and overpopulation as a whole) was not a problem the upcoming seismic demographic/cultural shift that has been allowed/engineered by the European governments would be very serious.

But starving, heat-stroked muslim Europe will not be much worse than a culturally christian mostly atheistic Europe.

However, is this not just a rhetorical device for you once you have admitted that this demographic shift has actually been unleashed by saying "so what, because this other shit..."?

We are NOT overpopulated. We could manage twice as many humans just fine. The problem isn't the amount of humans. The problem is the colossal waste of resources.

The number one culprit for climate change is energy use. The number one culprit for energy use is heating or cooling our homes. If we'd all just move in to flats, instead of houses there's a big battle won. There's an old environmentalist adage, "if you love nature stay away from it". If we concentrate in cities, and don't live in the country, another huge energy battle won. It's colossally wasteful for the environment to live in the country. 3/4 of all energy use is heating our homes. The rest barely matters at all, including petrol usage for travelling. I'm not saying we shouldn't effectivize it too, but it shouldn't be our main worry. As for recycling... why bother with it at all? A completely pointless environmental battle. People just have to stop fighting symbolic battles and get real about climate change. Start making actual sacrifices and get behind concrete political reforms. I'm not saying it can't happen. But I'm not hopeful.

Another huge culprit is our food. Not so much for energy waste as idiotic and destructive farming practices. That one will solve itself since it can't last. Quite literally. When we've destroyed enough habitats the price of certain foods, (like tiger shrimps) will go up so high that it won't be worth it any more. And we'll just stop eating it. In 50 years we'll look back at today's practices as pure insanity. We're really sawing off the branch we're sitting on. But none of it is irreversible. I hope you like tofu in your old age. It's not like you'll have options.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you think the Muslim, caliphate loving teens are just being edgy and rebellious?

Or is it a form of male bonding to want a caliphate?

Yes, to both.

 

[whichphilosophy]

This is sadly true, however if it (and resources and overpopulation as a whole) was not a problem the upcoming seismic demographic/cultural shift that has been allowed/engineered by the European governments would be very serious.

But starving, heat-stroked muslim Europe will not be much worse than a culturally christian mostly atheistic Europe.

However, is this not just a rhetorical device for you once you have admitted that this demographic shift has actually been unleashed by saying "so what, because this other shit..."?

We are NOT overpopulated. We could manage twice as many humans just fine. The problem isn't the amount of humans. The problem is the colossal waste of resources.

The number one culprit for climate change is energy use. The number one culprit for energy use is heating or cooling our homes. If we'd all just move in to flats, instead of houses there's a big battle one. There's an old environmentalist adage, "if you love nature stay away from it". If we concentrate in cities, and don't live in the country, another huge energy battle one. It's colossally wasteful for the environment to live in the country. 3/4 of all energy use is heating our homes. The rest barely matters at all, including petrol usage for travelling. I'm not saying we shouldn't effectivize it too, but it shouldn't be our main worry. As for recycling... why bother with it at all? A completely pointless environmental battle. People just have to stop fighting symbolic battles and get real about climate change. Start making actual sacrifices and get behind concrete political reforms. I'm not saying it can't happen. But I'm not hopeful.

Another huge culprit is our food. Not so much for energy waste as idiotic and destructive farming practices. That one will solve itself since it can't last. Quite literally. When we've destroyed enough habitats the price of certain foods, (like tiger shrimps) will go up so high that it won't be worth it any more. And we'll just stop eating it. In 50 years we'll look back at today's practices as pure insanity. We're really sawing off the branch we're sitting on. But none of it is irreversible. I hope you like tofu in your old age. It's not like you'll have options.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you think the Muslim, caliphate loving teens are just being edgy and rebellious?

Or is it a form of male bonding to want a caliphate?

Yes, to both.

We agree that asylum seekers should be given the opportunity of sanctuary once the application is approved. This leaves economic migrants. There are lots of resources in Africa Asia and parts of the Middle East. Nigeria by all accounts is rich in minerals, fruit and oil but its people are poor. Some are exceptionally talented but such skills can in future be directed to their own country. If we can direct money towards such people and not to corrupt politicians we can make progress.
We cannot continue to apologies for past colonisation of such countries when the faults are rooted in plutocratic practices and corruption. India is supposed to be developing but not for most of the poor. Does a rickshaw puller feel glad when the Delhi stock market shows an increase?

 

[TSwizzle]

1) I don't think we've learned anything. It's rare that westerners understand why democracy works.

Democracy is collapsing. Particularly in Europe. Teh islam will have no problem filling that void when total collapse happens.

 

[DrZoidberg]

1) I don't think we've learned anything. It's rare that westerners understand why democracy works.

Democracy is collapsing. Particularly in Europe. Teh islam will have no problem filling that void when total collapse happens.

What's your evidence? Looks pretty robust to me. Looks more robust than ever actually. The fact that our politicians don't agree with you isn't evidence of a failing democracy. It's evidence of a difference of opinion.

Your alarmism doesn't seem to know any bounds.

 

[TSwizzle]

As I recall when I was a teenager I was at one point communist, later anarchist and I turned out just fine.

Do you recall plotting drive by shootings and spending any time in prison ?

A pair of home-grown terrorists have been given life sentences for plotting to kill soldiers, police officers and civilians in a series of Islamic-State-inspired drive-by shootings.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rive-by-shootings-tarik-hassane-suhaib-majeed

 

[DrZoidberg]

Do you recall plotting drive by shootings and spending any time in prison ?

A pair of home-grown terrorists have been given life sentences for plotting to kill soldiers, police officers and civilians in a series of Islamic-State-inspired drive-by shootings.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rive-by-shootings-tarik-hassane-suhaib-majeed

Ehe.... well... I'm not young. I remember red terrorism of the 70'ies and 80'ies. I also remember neo-Nazi terrorism of the 90'ies. It's the same shit as far as I'm concerned. We're not importing anything that hasn't been here all along.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Do you recall plotting drive by shootings and spending any time in prison ?




http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rive-by-shootings-tarik-hassane-suhaib-majeed

Ehe.... well... I'm not young. I remember red terrorism of the 70'ies and 80'ies. I also remember neo-Nazi terrorism of the 90'ies. It's the same shit as far as I'm concerned. We're not importing anything that hasn't been here all along.

The point is if we drive in millions in addition to the genuine asylum seekers, the percentage will be very small, but given the volume, the numbers could be quite high. We don't need many apart from those we can assist to resettle in Europe due to wars, where in some cases they may choose to return home again.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Ehe.... well... I'm not young. I remember red terrorism of the 70'ies and 80'ies. I also remember neo-Nazi terrorism of the 90'ies. It's the same shit as far as I'm concerned. We're not importing anything that hasn't been here all along.

The point is if we drive in millions in addition to the genuine asylum seekers, the percentage will be very small, but given the volume, the numbers could be quite high. We don't need many apart from those we can assist to resettle in Europe due to wars, where in some cases they may choose to return home again.

What are you implying? Are you aware that if terrorists want to come here and commit terrorist acts all they need is a tourist visa? Any moron can get that. This idea that terrorist have anything to gain from posing as refugees is a red herring. Refugees are screened. Tourists, barely at all. So it's irrelevant. Obviously "percentages" won't be altered a damn from what it would be without them. I think it's pure racism and/or Islamophobia. I'm not saying that as an insult. I'm saying that because that's what I think is going on.

I'm aware you're trying to make yourself come across as the voice of reason and some middle-ground. Hence the conciliatory language. But you're not. One side in this debate are suffering from paranoid delusions, while the other side isn't. If you want to place yourself between these two camps you're just being slightly less paranoid, but still paranoid.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The point is if we drive in millions in addition to the genuine asylum seekers, the percentage will be very small, but given the volume, the numbers could be quite high. We don't need many apart from those we can assist to resettle in Europe due to wars, where in some cases they may choose to return home again.

What are you implying? Are you aware that if terrorists want to come here and commit terrorist acts all they need is a tourist visa? Any moron can get that. This idea that terrorist have anything to gain from posing as refugees is a red herring. Refugees are screened. Tourists, barely at all. So it's irrelevant. Obviously "percentages" won't be altered a damn from what it would be without them. I think it's pure racism and/or Islamophobia. I'm not saying that as an insult. I'm saying that because that's what I think is going on.

I'm aware you're trying to make yourself come across as the voice of reason and some middle-ground. Hence the conciliatory language. But you're not. One side in this debate are suffering from paranoid delusions, while the other side isn't. If you want to place yourself between these two camps you're just being slightly less paranoid, but still paranoid.

I'm saying its based on volume only. There again one person's paranoia is another's caution. Fortunately we don't all think the same for wouldn't things be boring.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What are you implying? Are you aware that if terrorists want to come here and commit terrorist acts all they need is a tourist visa? Any moron can get that. This idea that terrorist have anything to gain from posing as refugees is a red herring. Refugees are screened. Tourists, barely at all. So it's irrelevant. Obviously "percentages" won't be altered a damn from what it would be without them. I think it's pure racism and/or Islamophobia. I'm not saying that as an insult. I'm saying that because that's what I think is going on.

I'm aware you're trying to make yourself come across as the voice of reason and some middle-ground. Hence the conciliatory language. But you're not. One side in this debate are suffering from paranoid delusions, while the other side isn't. If you want to place yourself between these two camps you're just being slightly less paranoid, but still paranoid.

I'm saying its based on volume only.

Ok... let's run with this. If a set proportion of any population always commits terrorist acts then what does it matter what the ethnic mix of that population? What is gained by keeping out a particular ethnic or religious group? I think you are wrong btw. But your argument doesn't even work logically.

 

[Jayjay]

The point is if we drive in millions in addition to the genuine asylum seekers, the percentage will be very small, but given the volume, the numbers could be quite high. We don't need many apart from those we can assist to resettle in Europe due to wars, where in some cases they may choose to return home again.

What are you implying? Are you aware that if terrorists want to come here and commit terrorist acts all they need is a tourist visa? Any moron can get that. This idea that terrorist have anything to gain from posing as refugees is a red herring. Refugees are screened. Tourists, barely at all. So it's irrelevant. Obviously "percentages" won't be altered a damn from what it would be without them. I think it's pure racism and/or Islamophobia. I'm not saying that as an insult. I'm saying that because that's what I think is going on.

I'm aware you're trying to make yourself come across as the voice of reason and some middle-ground. Hence the conciliatory language. But you're not. One side in this debate are suffering from paranoid delusions, while the other side isn't. If you want to place yourself between these two camps you're just being slightly less paranoid, but still paranoid.

I'd say tourists are screened much more thoroughly. You can't come as a tourist unless you have a passport and a visa. Many of the "refugees" that end up on Europe's borders have no identification whatsoever. Two of the Paris attack perpetrators had been to Syria and slipped back to Europe among the so called refugees, for example.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'd say tourists are screened much more thoroughly.

Have you seen the list of shit refugees have to go through to get refugee status? They read like they were written by a conspiracy nut. Yes, they're already overly rigorous. Why, you may ask. It's because this is politicians trying to come across as tough on terrorism. So they throw this bone to the voters, as if they've done something. But in reality the security checks are quadruple redundant. They're already bizarrely rigorous. If tourists were screened as much as refugees, it would take two years minimum to clear customs. If you think it's annoying to wait for your luggage now...

Here's the basic rules by UNHCR. On top of these rules each country puts a couple of more layers on there.

http://www.unhcr.org/3b389254a.html

You can't come as a tourist unless you have a passport and a visa. Many of the "refugees" that end up on Europe's borders have no identification whatsoever.

If you've got money, fake passports are easy to buy. A lot of countries are corrupt as a mother fucker. You can get passports for your dog and a random horse if you want. The Paris attackers all had fake passports and where in France on tourist visas.

Two of the Paris attack perpetrators had been to Syria and slipped back to Europe among the so called refugees, for example.

Now you're mixing things. Yes, two of them took the same route as some refugees, some of the way. Namely boat from Turkey to Greece. When they bought the tickets for he boat they posed as refugees. But at no point did they apply for refugee status. The owners of those boats don't give a shit. They just want to get paid. There's no way in hell that type of transport can be regulated. From Greece the terrorists went their merry way to Paris overland. The rest of them flew, just like any tourist would.

Increasing security checks on refugees won't make it any harder for terrorists to travel with refugees BEFORE they've applied for refugee status. That's a wholly unregulated domain. Also, impossible to regulate due to the nature of... well.. war-zones.