Europe submits voluntarily

[whichphilosophy]

But that's not what you said.

I may add that the growth of any religion incorporates all factors birth rates and net after departures etc.
While the Muslim population increasing it is accelarated in various degrees by the influx of refugees and others wishing to settle in Europe.

See Pewforum
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/...ation-growth/pf_15-04-02_projectionstables50/
(Chart)
FUTURE GROWTH (TABLE)
http://www.wnrf.org/cms/next200.shtml

PS more support data from research is needed as I notice this has dropped from a lot of forums.

Your claim was that it is likely that Europe will become Islamic by the end of the century. Yet, your Pew data indicates that by 2050, the Muslim population in most European countries will still be in the single digits, with the highest projection at 12.4 percent. That the number of Muslims in other parts of the world is growing, even if at a faster rate than other religions, is not relevant to what you claimed and not really news to anyone. So what on Earth makes you think this supports your position?

I am looking at 2110. The growth rate from 1910 to 2010 shows a high rate of expansion, even if this more to do with higher birthrates than conversions verses departures as suggested by Pew
There are lots of polls but the overall figure is moving up. Expansion in Europe is related more to migration. See the Chart. Also the voting power will be enormous. In the UK where the biggest party is around 39 percent, a voting block of 15 percent will be a major decider. There is nothing wrong with Muslim citizens exercising their rights to do this but I believe some of the political demographics could change.

 

[Derec]

I am looking at 2110. The growth rate from 1910 to 2010 shows a high rate of expansion, even if this more to do with higher birthrates than conversions verses departures as suggested by Pew
There are lots of polls but the overall figure is moving up. Expansion in Europe is related more to migration. See the Chart. Also the voting power will be enormous. In the UK where the biggest party is around 39 percent, a voting block of 15 percent will be a major decider. There is nothing wrong with Muslim citizens exercising their rights to do this but I believe some of the political demographics could change.

In other words, Europe is committing slow-motion suicide by letting all these millions of Muslim migrants in. And the "open the borders" firth columnists want it to go even faster.

 

[jonatha]

In other words, Europe is committing slow-motion suicide by letting all these millions of Muslim migrants in. And the "open the borders" firth columnists want it to go even faster.

There's some movement in Scotland for open borders?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's the largest growing religion in the World and given the volume that is spreading it is a likelihood but would take about 100 years. As far as dominance, religions come and go. There again a lot can change over the next ten years.

The real crimes however have been committed against Syria, Libya and Iraq, thus causing the migration into Europe, many of which are genuine asylum seekers.

If Islam gets it's way it's unlikely there will be a world here in 100 years, at least in anything resembling a technological civilization.

 

[bilby]

It's the largest growing religion in the World and given the volume that is spreading it is a likelihood but would take about 100 years. As far as dominance, religions come and go. There again a lot can change over the next ten years.

The real crimes however have been committed against Syria, Libya and Iraq, thus causing the migration into Europe, many of which are genuine asylum seekers.

If Islam gets it's way it's unlikely there will be a world here in 100 years, at least in anything resembling a technological civilization.

Yeah, 'cos Islam is a united political power, in which religious fundamentalism is considered normal; they have the world's largest military, and the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons - and they have actually used nukes in anger on two cities.

Oh, hang on. Sorry, that's the USA. I'm always getting my existential threats mixed up like that.

 

[bilby]

But that's not what you said.



Your claim was that it is likely that Europe will become Islamic by the end of the century. Yet, your Pew data indicates that by 2050, the Muslim population in most European countries will still be in the single digits, with the highest projection at 12.4 percent. That the number of Muslims in other parts of the world is growing, even if at a faster rate than other religions, is not relevant to what you claimed and not really news to anyone. So what on Earth makes you think this supports your position?

I am looking at 2110. The growth rate from 1910 to 2010 shows a high rate of expansion, even if this more to do with higher birthrates than conversions verses departures as suggested by Pew
There are lots of polls but the overall figure is moving up. Expansion in Europe is related more to migration. See the Chart. Also the voting power will be enormous. In the UK where the biggest party is around 39 percent, a voting block of 15 percent will be a major decider. There is nothing wrong with Muslim citizens exercising their rights to do this but I believe some of the political demographics could change.

Extrapolating trends isn't usually viable in any but the simplest of situations - if this was a valid concern, then I could expect to be forty feet tall by 2020, based on my growth rate between 1970 and 1975.

Even if the population extrapolation was valid, the assumption that Muslim migrants would form an Islamic voting bloc is highly dubious - religion is declining fast in the UK, and many 'Muslim' citizens are no more devout that their 'Christian' neighbours, who never go to church, but resolutely tick the 'C of E' box on their census forms.

Your assessment that there is a risk relies on you being correct in assuming the worst possible, and highly implausible, outcomes in a large number of different aspects of British society. This is completely unjustified by any of the actual data available to us; it is possible, but only in the same way that it is possible that I might win the lottery three weeks in a row. I'm certainly not going to waste a lot of time organising a bank vault in which to keep my winnings, just in case.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I am looking at 2110. The growth rate from 1910 to 2010 shows a high rate of expansion, even if this more to do with higher birthrates than conversions verses departures as suggested by Pew
There are lots of polls but the overall figure is moving up. Expansion in Europe is related more to migration. See the Chart. Also the voting power will be enormous. In the UK where the biggest party is around 39 percent, a voting block of 15 percent will be a major decider. There is nothing wrong with Muslim citizens exercising their rights to do this but I believe some of the political demographics could change.

Extrapolating trends isn't usually viable in any but the simplest of situations - if this was a valid concern, then I could expect to be forty feet tall by 2020, based on my growth rate between 1970 and 1975.

Even if the population extrapolation was valid, the assumption that Muslim migrants would form an Islamic voting bloc is highly dubious - religion is declining fast in the UK, and many 'Muslim' citizens are no more devout that their 'Christian' neighbours, who never go to church, but resolutely tick the 'C of E' box on their census forms.

Your assessment that there is a risk relies on you being correct in assuming the worst possible, and highly implausible, outcomes in a large number of different aspects of British society. This is completely unjustified by any of the actual data available to us; it is possible, but only in the same way that it is possible that I might win the lottery three weeks in a row. I'm certainly not going to waste a lot of time organising a bank vault in which to keep my winnings, just in case.

The growth is factual and communities from Asia (not just Muslim) and the Labour party (UK) does sometimes attract a high immigrant block vote in some places. There's nothing wrong with how people vote as this is a democracy. By immigrant, means any person, Muslim or otherwise. The trend since 1910 plus the recent increase in migration will support the possible outcome in 100 years. Other factors could change this. A large rise in Atheism and those who profess no religion, those who leave Islam and other religions.

There are differences in the various studies, but the growth rate long term has been increasing.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's the largest growing religion in the World and given the volume that is spreading it is a likelihood but would take about 100 years. As far as dominance, religions come and go. There again a lot can change over the next ten years.

The real crimes however have been committed against Syria, Libya and Iraq, thus causing the migration into Europe, many of which are genuine asylum seekers.

If Islam gets it's way it's unlikely there will be a world here in 100 years, at least in anything resembling a technological civilization.

Middle Eastern countries are producing a lot of technically educated staff nowadays. Other countries in Asia do likewise. The main problem is a lack of jobs due to an oversupply.

 

[Derec]

Extrapolating trends isn't usually viable in any but the simplest of situations - if this was a valid concern, then I could expect to be forty feet tall by 2020, based on my growth rate between 1970 and 1975.

Even if the population extrapolation was valid, the assumption that Muslim migrants would form an Islamic voting bloc is highly dubious - religion is declining fast in the UK, and many 'Muslim' citizens are no more devout that their 'Christian' neighbours, who never go to church, but resolutely tick the 'C of E' box on their census forms.

What is declining is mostly CoE. There is no indication Islam is declining. Quite the opposite.
As far as voting block, just look at US and hispanics. They are now a powerful voting block that makes it impossible to pass any measures against (mostly hispanic) illegal aliens. Quite the contrary, we are giving them all sorts of benefits!

Your assessment that there is a risk relies on you being correct in assuming the worst possible, and highly implausible, outcomes in a large number of different aspects of British society. This is completely unjustified by any of the actual data available to us; it is possible, but only in the same way that it is possible that I might win the lottery three weeks in a row. I'm certainly not going to waste a lot of time organising a bank vault in which to keep my winnings, just in case.

It would mirror other societies where Islam took over. Take Kosovo for example. It wasn't majority Albanian that long ago.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If Islam gets it's way it's unlikely there will be a world here in 100 years, at least in anything resembling a technological civilization.

Yeah, 'cos Islam is a united political power, in which religious fundamentalism is considered normal; they have the world's largest military, and the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons - and they have actually used nukes in anger on two cities.

Oh, hang on. Sorry, that's the USA. I'm always getting my existential threats mixed up like that.

I wasn't thinking about war, but rather a resource collapse. They can't even keep their own countries functioning (most of the technicians are imported labor), let alone undertake the major projects needed to maintain civilization.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

It's the largest growing religion in the World and given the volume that is spreading it is a likelihood but would take about 100 years. As far as dominance, religions come and go. There again a lot can change over the next ten years.

The real crimes however have been committed against Syria, Libya and Iraq, thus causing the migration into Europe, many of which are genuine asylum seekers.

If Islam gets it's way it's unlikely there will be a world here in 100 years, at least in anything resembling a technological civilization.

What do you mean by "gets it's way".
The post you're replying to is saying it's likely that Europe will be an Islamic continent; even if that happens (who knows?), I don't think it's likely to happen in, say, China or Japan.

 

[bilby]

If Islam gets it's way it's unlikely there will be a world here in 100 years, at least in anything resembling a technological civilization.

Of course, you could just as well say the same thing about what would happen 'If Christianity gets its way'; It makes me wonder why an American would spend so much effort worrying about what Islam might do in Europe, when he could instead worry about what Christianity is far more likely to do - and in many cases, has already done, or is already doing - in his own backyard.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yeah, 'cos Islam is a united political power, in which religious fundamentalism is considered normal; they have the world's largest military, and the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons - and they have actually used nukes in anger on two cities.

Oh, hang on. Sorry, that's the USA. I'm always getting my existential threats mixed up like that.

I wasn't thinking about war, but rather a resource collapse. They can't even keep their own countries functioning (most of the technicians are imported labor), let alone undertake the major projects needed to maintain civilization.

When western countries democratised we had several centuries of total mess. Come again in 200 years and we can compare which culture sucks the most at it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Yeah, 'cos Islam is a united political power, in which religious fundamentalism is considered normal; they have the world's largest military, and the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons - and they have actually used nukes in anger on two cities.

Oh, hang on. Sorry, that's the USA. I'm always getting my existential threats mixed up like that.

I wasn't thinking about war, but rather a resource collapse. They can't even keep their own countries functioning (most of the technicians are imported labor), let alone undertake the major projects needed to maintain civilization.

I've met many Arabs. The smartest are the Palestinians who have lived mainly out of Palestine. A lot are engineers and involved in the Oil and Gas industries. I may sound biased here, but British Engineers doing the same job will be faster at decision making more confident and complete their design functions much quicker so as to allow manufacturing to succeed.

However, the Israelis are top among IT as I understand. I have not had much interaction with Israelis but would like to. I believe their working philosophy would be based on fast decision making. You may know them better.

The above are generalities where there will be exceptions in all cases.
I've been working in the Middle East and for the moment don't want t risk an Israeli stamp on my passport.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I am looking at 2110. The growth rate from 1910 to 2010 shows a high rate of expansion, even if this more to do with higher birthrates than conversions verses departures as suggested by Pew
There are lots of polls but the overall figure is moving up. Expansion in Europe is related more to migration. See the Chart. Also the voting power will be enormous. In the UK where the biggest party is around 39 percent, a voting block of 15 percent will be a major decider. There is nothing wrong with Muslim citizens exercising their rights to do this but I believe some of the political demographics could change.

In other words, Europe is committing slow-motion suicide by letting all these millions of Muslim migrants in. And the "open the borders" firth columnists want it to go even faster.

The eventual outcome is not a certainty. The majority of Muslims are not a problem to anyone. The only concern is the volume of all nationalities arriving in Europe.

 

[TSwizzle]

The cultural enrichment and vibrant diversity of the UK causes a conundrum for authorities who have to deal with new "traditions";

A boy as young as eight is among scores of children feared by judges to be at risk of forced marriage as official figures reveal police are struggling to bring cases to court.

The schoolboy – thought to be one of the UK’s youngest known potential victims of forced marriage – is among 71 children, teenagers and women in West Yorkshire guarded by special court orders since 2014.

His case came to light as police figures, obtained by the Guardian, showed that only a fraction of investigations into forced marriage result in a prosecution. Many are dropped because victims are too scared to give evidence against their abuser.

In West Yorkshire, five of the 51 cases investigated since June 2014 resulted in a suspect being charged.Thirty-five of these investigations were dropped due to “evidential difficulties”, of which 16 were “victim-based” problems, the figures show.

There was a similar pattern in the West Midlands, where 19 of its 31 investigations resulted in no charges – eight because the victims did not support further action. There has been one conviction so far under a new forced marriage law introduced in June 2014.

Guardian

It must be quite a challenge for UK authorities to keep up with the new "traditions". They haven't quite got a handle on the FGM yet.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wasn't thinking about war, but rather a resource collapse. They can't even keep their own countries functioning (most of the technicians are imported labor), let alone undertake the major projects needed to maintain civilization.

When western countries democratised we had several centuries of total mess. Come again in 200 years and we can compare which culture sucks the most at it.

We learned better. They haven't yet--and they want to impose their system on us. Civilization can't survive that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've met many Arabs. The smartest are the Palestinians who have lived mainly out of Palestine. A lot are engineers and involved in the Oil and Gas industries. I may sound biased here, but British Engineers doing the same job will be faster at decision making more confident and complete their design functions much quicker so as to allow manufacturing to succeed.

When you have substantial emigration in any place expect the ones that leave to be the cream of the crop and what's left behind to be a mess.

 

[repoman]

Is this guy maybe, perhaps, possibly Jewish?

 

[bilby]

Is this guy maybe, perhaps, possibly Jewish?

View attachment 6507

Why, would his being Jewish have an effect on whether what he is saying is or is not correct?

I can see how it might render him a more valid authority if he was talking about Judaism; but his positions on EU and UK immigration are either right or wrong entirely independently of his religious or cultural background, surely?

The claim that "The EU should do its best to undermine the homogenity of its member states" does not become any more or less correct depending on whether it is made by a Jew, a Muslim or an Atheist. Nor does the claim that "The future prosperity of many EU states [depends] on them becoming multicultural". Nor does the claim that "The UK government's immigration policy has no basis in international law"; nor the implications that such policy should have such a basis.

If you think he is wrong, then you need to come up with a much more compelling argument than simple anti-Semitism. This isn't stormfront; You need to provide NON-fallacious reasoning around here.