DrZoidberg
Contributor
The same people said the same in Europe the entire 19'th century. It took over a hundred years of carnage and instability before democracy. Both Napoleon and Hitler were the results of Enlightenment ideas of freedom and democracy. Sometimes the successful road isn't a straight line. The mess in the Middle-East is not even close to the mess we had in Europe when we were trying to democratise. The transitional systems that were the most successful ended up being the step-by-step democratisation processes. Every step of the way created a new stable system of government. This is what happened in Sweden and England. In Sweden we were on the brink of communist take-over for a bit less than a hundred years. This constant pressure of socialists created a slow evolution of moving power further and further down the ladder until we had full democracy. In the UK it was a fear of becoming France 2. A constant pressure of social unrest. None of these processes were smooth or pretty. But these are among the smoothest and prettiest.
I wouldn't call it a fiasco by a long shot. Monarchs/dictators in Europe who refused to budge and be a part of the step-by-step reforms were all toppled by violent revolution. France, Russia, Spain. The result of these were total and absolute carnage. This is what happened to Iraq, Syria and Libya. The problem wasn't western intervention. The problem was Saddam, Assad and Gaddafi. And we shouldn't take the blame for it. This is what democratisation looks like. It ain't pretty. It's rarely pretty .
Not all changes are violent. The problems in Iraq Syria and Libya stem directly from Western intervention regardless of who was there and the resulting deaths through war and starvation which have now surpassed one million.
What a dog's dinner they made of those countries.
Ehe.... wut? How do you manage to blame Syria on the west? Just curious now. In Libya the west got involved really late in the game. The Gaddaffi regime had in practice already lost when American and British bombers got involved. All they did was to cut short what otherwise had been a protracted end-game. Are you also going to blame the Libyan revolution on the west, or what? The west had nothing to do with that one.
As far as western intervention in Iraq. Hard to argue with that one. The west help keep Saddam in power in the beginning. That's big shame. Helped arm him to attack Iran. Big shame. Invading and ousting that fucker was the least we could do. In the big picture we're all better off with Saddam gone than in power.