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Merkel has invited nearly 1 million migrants into her country this year alone. The rest of EU is also increasing their intake. Once they are a substantial minority is when the fireworks will start as has been shown to happen already in some parts of EU.

Take it from a good Palestinian friend of mine. There is sometimes friction between Muslims and others as we can see. However put a lot of Muslims together, THEN you will see real fireworks. Why do you think Muslim countries wont take in Muslims.
Religion is defining in the middle East, while the West has pursued a mentality of equivalence of religion, and the two mindsets could not be further apart. Mixing the two just won't work, and it's idealistic thinking that it does when plainly it can't happen. No other followers of any other religion riot over cartoons, or place a fatwa on a Salman Rushdie for writing a work of fiction. Xtianity couldn't give a stuff if someone jokes about Jesus. This is the defining difference between a violent death cult as compared to any other religion. And don't give me that bullshit about extremist being in the minority. As Erdogan has said himself, there's no such thing as moderate Muslims.
 
Take it from a good Palestinian friend of mine. There is sometimes friction between Muslims and others as we can see. However put a lot of Muslims together, THEN you will see real fireworks. Why do you think Muslim countries wont take in Muslims.
Religion is defining in the middle East, while the West has pursued a mentality of equivalence of religion, and the two mindsets could not be further apart. Mixing the two just won't work, and it's idealistic thinking that it does when plainly it can't happen. No other followers of any other religion riot over cartoons, or place a fatwa on a Salman Rushdie for writing a work of fiction. Xtianity couldn't give a stuff if someone jokes about Jesus. This is the defining difference between a violent death cult as compared to any other religion. And don't give me that bullshit about extremist being in the minority. As Erdogan has said himself, there's no such thing as moderate Muslims.

So what? The same has been said both by and about Christians too:

The fundamentalist Christians I've known won't even associate with moderate Christians. In fact they claim there is no such thing as a moderate Christian. They accept nothing moderate. The two words are mutually exclusive. A moderate cannot be a Christian and a Christian cannot be a moderate.
- Thomas Hugh Goodson, Jr., Autopsy, Anatomy of Survival

Recall that there is no such thing as a 'moderate Christian'. The biggest enemy of the Christian Brotherhood is all around and practically goes unchallenged and for the most part unnoticed. It is political correctness. This subtle enemy manifests itself whenever Christian values and Bible teachings are compromised or marginalized for the sake of pacifying the few.
- Walt Thrun, America's Vision vs. God's Standard of Justice

When you limit your research to seeking only information that supports your preconceptions, you do yourself and your audience an injustice. Islam sucks, for sure; but it is not unique nor especially extreme in that regard. Religion sucks, and those who wish to set Islam apart as particularly sucky do so, not because of the evidence, but despite it.
 
Take it from a good Palestinian friend of mine. There is sometimes friction between Muslims and others as we can see. However put a lot of Muslims together, THEN you will see real fireworks. Why do you think Muslim countries wont take in Muslims.
Religion is defining in the middle East, while the West has pursued a mentality of equivalence of religion, and the two mindsets could not be further apart. Mixing the two just won't work, and it's idealistic thinking that it does when plainly it can't happen. No other followers of any other religion riot over cartoons, or place a fatwa on a Salman Rushdie for writing a work of fiction. Xtianity couldn't give a stuff if someone jokes about Jesus. This is the defining difference between a violent death cult as compared to any other religion. And don't give me that bullshit about extremist being in the minority. As Erdogan has said himself, there's no such thing as moderate Muslims.
I don't know of any followers of any other religion except Christianity who murder abortionists. Does that make Christianity a death cult? I don't know the followers of any other religion except Judaism who take people out of their homes and set them on fire for being another ethnic group. Does that make Judaism a death cult?
 
Religion is defining in the middle East, while the West has pursued a mentality of equivalence of religion, and the two mindsets could not be further apart. Mixing the two just won't work, and it's idealistic thinking that it does when plainly it can't happen. No other followers of any other religion riot over cartoons, or place a fatwa on a Salman Rushdie for writing a work of fiction. Xtianity couldn't give a stuff if someone jokes about Jesus. This is the defining difference between a violent death cult as compared to any other religion. And don't give me that bullshit about extremist being in the minority. As Erdogan has said himself, there's no such thing as moderate Muslims.
I don't know of any followers of any other religion except Christianity who murder abortionists. Does that make Christianity a death cult? I don't know the followers of any other religion except Judaism who take people out of their homes and set them on fire for being another ethnic group. Does that make Judaism a death cult?
I presume you have a link to Jews taking people out of their homes and setting them on fire? Or of xtians murdering abortionists at anywhere near the murdering Islamist rate?
 
As Erdogan has said himself, there's no such thing as moderate Muslims.

I believe what he said is that there is no such thing as moderate islam. And I don't think he is the only one that said it.

I think you have to meet Muslims with them for a few years to find this out. There's a lot of bad stuff in the Bible too.
 
Operation Menu was the codename of a covert United States Strategic Air Command (SAC) bombing campaign conducted in eastern Cambodia and Laos from 18 March 1969 until 26 May 1970

Operation Freedom Deal was a U.S. Seventh Air Force interdiction and close air support campaign waged in Cambodia (later, the Khmer Republic) between 19 May 1970 and 15 August 1973

During 1973 Freedom Deal aircraft dropped 250,000 tons of bombs (primarily high explosive), topping the 180,000 tons dropped on Japan during the Second World War.

U.S. bombing of Cambodia extended over the entire eastern one-half of the country and was especially intense in the heavily-populated southeastern one-quarter of the country, including a wide ring surrounding the largest city of Phnom Penh. In large areas, according to maps of U.S. bombing sites, it appears that nearly every square mile of land was hit by bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freedom_Deal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

Why somebody so ignorant of history is such a fucking blabber mouth always amazes me.

What the US did in Cambodia was genocide. A huge war crime. To excuse it is to show oneself to have no ability to make moral judgements.

And the end result was Pol Pot and his madness and genocide. He never could have taken power without the help of the US blowing the place up first.

Don't forget the French. They hastily packed up their stuff and left quickly creating a power vacuum and gigantic mess in it's wake. If we're to evaluate the relative degrees of evil, the Americans weren't half as bad as the French. Albeit pretty fucking bad.

The French got out of the way of people wanting independence. The US took their place and since it couldn't stop them it just blew the place up and left.

The French didn't blow the place up, especially Cambodia, that was the US, mainly Kissinger and Nixon.

Do you history much? They did not. They left most reluctantly. They had to be kicked out from everywhere. Of all colonial rulers France ranks second place after Belgium, in being the mostest evil. Simply based on the degrees of mess they left behind. Great Britain at least made an effort to educate people so there would be an educated elite to run things. France did no such thing.

There's an absolutely bizarre place a bit south of Kampot in Cambodia. Luxury houses, side by side in the shitest most run down area. Some houses built in the 70'ies. Really cool and stylish. When I entered one of them I was met by a chained up goat standing in the middle of a ball room. Wooden floor. Some farmers camp in one end of the ball room. Bizarre, in every way. Not that it has any bearing on this discussion. Just a memory flashback of Combodias fucked-upness.
 
Religion is defining in the middle East, while the West has pursued a mentality of equivalence of religion, and the two mindsets could not be further apart. Mixing the two just won't work, and it's idealistic thinking that it does when plainly it can't happen. No other followers of any other religion riot over cartoons, or place a fatwa on a Salman Rushdie for writing a work of fiction. Xtianity couldn't give a stuff if someone jokes about Jesus. This is the defining difference between a violent death cult as compared to any other religion. And don't give me that bullshit about extremist being in the minority. As Erdogan has said himself, there's no such thing as moderate Muslims.

So what? The same has been said both by and about Christians too:

The fundamentalist Christians I've known won't even associate with moderate Christians. In fact they claim there is no such thing as a moderate Christian. They accept nothing moderate. The two words are mutually exclusive. A moderate cannot be a Christian and a Christian cannot be a moderate.
- Thomas Hugh Goodson, Jr., Autopsy, Anatomy of Survival

Recall that there is no such thing as a 'moderate Christian'. The biggest enemy of the Christian Brotherhood is all around and practically goes unchallenged and for the most part unnoticed. It is political correctness. This subtle enemy manifests itself whenever Christian values and Bible teachings are compromised or marginalized for the sake of pacifying the few.
- Walt Thrun, America's Vision vs. God's Standard of Justice

When you limit your research to seeking only information that supports your preconceptions, you do yourself and your audience an injustice. Islam sucks, for sure; but it is not unique nor especially extreme in that regard. Religion sucks, and those who wish to set Islam apart as particularly sucky do so, not because of the evidence, but despite it.

There have been around 25.000 islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11. How many xtian attacks have there been in that same time-frame?
 
I don't know of any followers of any other religion except Christianity who murder abortionists. Does that make Christianity a death cult? I don't know the followers of any other religion except Judaism who take people out of their homes and set them on fire for being another ethnic group. Does that make Judaism a death cult?
I presume you have a link to Jews taking people out of their homes and setting them on fire?
I see you ignore recent events such as http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33729281 or http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/14/three-jewish-israelis-charged-kidnapping-killing-palestinian-boy.

I made my comment to show that your observation is simply emotionally charged rhetorical bias and nothing more. Unlike you, I believe murder is wrong, no matter who does it and who is the victim.

Or of xtians murdering abortionists at anywhere near the murdering Islamist rate?
Shift the goal post much? You said "no other followers" not "no other followers at the same rate".
 
So what? The same has been said both by and about Christians too:

The fundamentalist Christians I've known won't even associate with moderate Christians. In fact they claim there is no such thing as a moderate Christian. They accept nothing moderate. The two words are mutually exclusive. A moderate cannot be a Christian and a Christian cannot be a moderate.
- Thomas Hugh Goodson, Jr., Autopsy, Anatomy of Survival

Recall that there is no such thing as a 'moderate Christian'. The biggest enemy of the Christian Brotherhood is all around and practically goes unchallenged and for the most part unnoticed. It is political correctness. This subtle enemy manifests itself whenever Christian values and Bible teachings are compromised or marginalized for the sake of pacifying the few.
- Walt Thrun, America's Vision vs. God's Standard of Justice

When you limit your research to seeking only information that supports your preconceptions, you do yourself and your audience an injustice. Islam sucks, for sure; but it is not unique nor especially extreme in that regard. Religion sucks, and those who wish to set Islam apart as particularly sucky do so, not because of the evidence, but despite it.

There have been around 25.000 islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11. How many xtian attacks have there been in that same time-frame?

Moot point. The Islamic world is unstable. You have no way of separating political conflict from religiously motivated conflict. All that proves is that the Christian world is largely at peace. And that's just down to historical random factors utterly and completely unrelated to religion.
 
I presume you have a link to Jews taking people out of their homes and setting them on fire?
I see you ignore recent events such as http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33729281 or http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/14/three-jewish-israelis-charged-kidnapping-killing-palestinian-boy.

The first of these was almost certainly not due to the Jews. It's very convenient to blame the Jews for anything bad that happens but this was almost certainly internal.

Note that when it's actually the Jews the Israeli police do go after them.

- - - Updated - - -

So what? The same has been said both by and about Christians too:

The fundamentalist Christians I've known won't even associate with moderate Christians. In fact they claim there is no such thing as a moderate Christian. They accept nothing moderate. The two words are mutually exclusive. A moderate cannot be a Christian and a Christian cannot be a moderate.
- Thomas Hugh Goodson, Jr., Autopsy, Anatomy of Survival

Recall that there is no such thing as a 'moderate Christian'. The biggest enemy of the Christian Brotherhood is all around and practically goes unchallenged and for the most part unnoticed. It is political correctness. This subtle enemy manifests itself whenever Christian values and Bible teachings are compromised or marginalized for the sake of pacifying the few.
- Walt Thrun, America's Vision vs. God's Standard of Justice

When you limit your research to seeking only information that supports your preconceptions, you do yourself and your audience an injustice. Islam sucks, for sure; but it is not unique nor especially extreme in that regard. Religion sucks, and those who wish to set Islam apart as particularly sucky do so, not because of the evidence, but despite it.

There have been around 25.000 islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11. How many xtian attacks have there been in that same time-frame?

Moot point. The Islamic world is unstable. You have no way of separating political conflict from religiously motivated conflict. All that proves is that the Christian world is largely at peace. And that's just down to historical random factors utterly and completely unrelated to religion.

When they proclaim religious motivation for their actions it's religious.
 

The first of these was almost certainly not due to the Jews. It's very convenient to blame the Jews for anything bad that happens but this was almost certainly internal.

Note that when it's actually the Jews the Israeli police do go after them.
And when it's non-Jews, the Israeli army goes after them and their families and bulldoze their houses.
 
I don't know the followers of any other religion except Judaism who take people out of their homes and set them on fire for being another ethnic group.
Seriously? What major religion doesn't have followers who've done that? Hell, Buddhists have burned people to death just for being Tamil!
 
Operation Menu was the codename of a covert United States Strategic Air Command (SAC) bombing campaign conducted in eastern Cambodia and Laos from 18 March 1969 until 26 May 1970

Operation Freedom Deal was a U.S. Seventh Air Force interdiction and close air support campaign waged in Cambodia (later, the Khmer Republic) between 19 May 1970 and 15 August 1973

During 1973 Freedom Deal aircraft dropped 250,000 tons of bombs (primarily high explosive), topping the 180,000 tons dropped on Japan during the Second World War.

U.S. bombing of Cambodia extended over the entire eastern one-half of the country and was especially intense in the heavily-populated southeastern one-quarter of the country, including a wide ring surrounding the largest city of Phnom Penh. In large areas, according to maps of U.S. bombing sites, it appears that nearly every square mile of land was hit by bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freedom_Deal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

Why somebody so ignorant of history is such a fucking blabber mouth always amazes me.

What the US did in Cambodia was genocide. A huge war crime. To excuse it is to show oneself to have no ability to make moral judgements.

And the end result was Pol Pot and his madness and genocide. He never could have taken power without the help of the US blowing the place up first.

Don't forget the French. They hastily packed up their stuff and left quickly creating a power vacuum and gigantic mess in it's wake. If we're to evaluate the relative degrees of evil, the Americans weren't half as bad as the French. Albeit pretty fucking bad.

The French got out of the way of people wanting independence. The US took their place and since it couldn't stop them it just blew the place up and left.

The French didn't blow the place up, especially Cambodia, that was the US, mainly Kissinger and Nixon.

Do you history much? They did not. They left most reluctantly. They had to be kicked out from everywhere. Of all colonial rulers France ranks second place after Belgium, in being the mostest evil. Simply based on the degrees of mess they left behind. Great Britain at least made an effort to educate people so there would be an educated elite to run things. France did no such thing.

There's an absolutely bizarre place a bit south of Kampot in Cambodia. Luxury houses, side by side in the shitest most run down area. Some houses built in the 70'ies. Really cool and stylish. When I entered one of them I was met by a chained up goat standing in the middle of a ball room. Wooden floor. Some farmers camp in one end of the ball room. Bizarre, in every way. Not that it has any bearing on this discussion. Just a memory flashback of Combodias fucked-upness.

None of this addresses a word I said.

I said the French got out of the way.

They did. They left Vietnam.

Then the US moved in and began putting South Vietnamese in concentration camps and began killing South Vietnamese, not North Vietnamese, massively.
 
Cro-Magnon V. Neanderthal All Over Again

Operation Menu was the codename of a covert United States Strategic Air Command (SAC) bombing campaign conducted in eastern Cambodia and Laos from 18 March 1969 until 26 May 1970

Operation Freedom Deal was a U.S. Seventh Air Force interdiction and close air support campaign waged in Cambodia (later, the Khmer Republic) between 19 May 1970 and 15 August 1973

During 1973 Freedom Deal aircraft dropped 250,000 tons of bombs (primarily high explosive), topping the 180,000 tons dropped on Japan during the Second World War.

U.S. bombing of Cambodia extended over the entire eastern one-half of the country and was especially intense in the heavily-populated southeastern one-quarter of the country, including a wide ring surrounding the largest city of Phnom Penh. In large areas, according to maps of U.S. bombing sites, it appears that nearly every square mile of land was hit by bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freedom_Deal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

Why somebody so ignorant of history is such a fucking blabber mouth always amazes me.

What the US did in Cambodia was genocide. A huge war crime. To excuse it is to show oneself to have no ability to make moral judgements.

And the end result was Pol Pot and his madness and genocide. He never could have taken power without the help of the US blowing the place up first.

Don't forget the French. They hastily packed up their stuff and left quickly creating a power vacuum and gigantic mess in it's wake. If we're to evaluate the relative degrees of evil, the Americans weren't half as bad as the French. Albeit pretty fucking bad.

The French got out of the way of people wanting independence. The US took their place and since it couldn't stop them it just blew the place up and left.

The French didn't blow the place up, especially Cambodia, that was the US, mainly Kissinger and Nixon.

Do you history much? They did not. They left most reluctantly. They had to be kicked out from everywhere. Of all colonial rulers France ranks second place after Belgium, in being the mostest evil. Simply based on the degrees of mess they left behind. Great Britain at least made an effort to educate people so there would be an educated elite to run things. France did no such thing.

There's an absolutely bizarre place a bit south of Kampot in Cambodia. Luxury houses, side by side in the shitest most run down area. Some houses built in the 70'ies. Really cool and stylish. When I entered one of them I was met by a chained up goat standing in the middle of a ball room. Wooden floor. Some farmers camp in one end of the ball room. Bizarre, in every way. Not that it has any bearing on this discussion. Just a memory flashback of Combodias fucked-upness.
Those who live in Southeast Asia's jungle states are an inferior human species in relation to the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese. Despite academic dogma, there is more than one human species. The most unfit still survive in literally No Man's Land. The academics engage in a lifetime escape from reality, so they should be ignored and logical conclusions should be arrived at independently of the ruling class's assigned sages.

The true homo sapiens nations should stop fighting among themselves and unite to partition and re-colonize the Third World. We must seize all the resources the genetically defective nations were incapable of ever developing on our own. Intellectual property rights based on the natural law, "Use It or Lose It." Self-determination for simian herds jealously determined to destroy us was a faddish decadent illusion. The race traitors in the ruling class have forfeited their self-appointed dominance over us.
 
Those who live in Southeast Asia's jungle states are an inferior human species in relation to the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese. Despite academic dogma, there is more than one human species. The most unfit still survive in literally No Man's Land. The academics engage in a lifetime escape from reality, so they should be ignored and logical conclusions should be arrived at independently of the ruling class's assigned sages.

The true homo sapiens nations should stop fighting among themselves and unite to partition and re-colonize the Third World. We must seize all the resources the genetically defective nations were incapable of ever developing on our own. Intellectual property rights based on the natural law, "Use It or Lose It." Self-determination for simian herds jealously determined to destroy us was a faddish decadent illusion. The race traitors in the ruling class have forfeited their self-appointed dominance over us.

Is this a post a joke?

How do you determine “inferior”?

Where’d you get the idea there’s more than one species? If that’s not dogma then you should be able to present strong evidence.

Show us the logic and evidence that academics are dogmatists else you're the dogmatist.

Demonstrate the natural law of “Use it or lose it”. Looks like a sick cultural value (like the rest of what informs your post) and not a natural law.

If you’re ok with “might makes right” so long as you feel mighty, consistency requires that you remain ok with it if the table turns. Though the idiocy of that ethic will illustrate itself vividly then, and you're the one who's going to regret not supporting increased mutual respect between peoples.
 
Moot point. The Islamic world is unstable. You have no way of separating political conflict from religiously motivated conflict. All that proves is that the Christian world is largely at peace. And that's just down to historical random factors utterly and completely unrelated to religion.

When they proclaim religious motivation for their actions it's religious.

That's not how religion or religious motivations work. Religion is only used to justify acts that otherwise would have been taken. You got to look at the underlying cause. If we only focus on religion then we'll never ever fix the mess in the Middle-East. Once the region is stable the religion will be used to justify being peaceful.
 
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Operation Menu was the codename of a covert United States Strategic Air Command (SAC) bombing campaign conducted in eastern Cambodia and Laos from 18 March 1969 until 26 May 1970

Operation Freedom Deal was a U.S. Seventh Air Force interdiction and close air support campaign waged in Cambodia (later, the Khmer Republic) between 19 May 1970 and 15 August 1973

During 1973 Freedom Deal aircraft dropped 250,000 tons of bombs (primarily high explosive), topping the 180,000 tons dropped on Japan during the Second World War.

U.S. bombing of Cambodia extended over the entire eastern one-half of the country and was especially intense in the heavily-populated southeastern one-quarter of the country, including a wide ring surrounding the largest city of Phnom Penh. In large areas, according to maps of U.S. bombing sites, it appears that nearly every square mile of land was hit by bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freedom_Deal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

Why somebody so ignorant of history is such a fucking blabber mouth always amazes me.

What the US did in Cambodia was genocide. A huge war crime. To excuse it is to show oneself to have no ability to make moral judgements.

And the end result was Pol Pot and his madness and genocide. He never could have taken power without the help of the US blowing the place up first.

Don't forget the French. They hastily packed up their stuff and left quickly creating a power vacuum and gigantic mess in it's wake. If we're to evaluate the relative degrees of evil, the Americans weren't half as bad as the French. Albeit pretty fucking bad.

The French got out of the way of people wanting independence. The US took their place and since it couldn't stop them it just blew the place up and left.

The French didn't blow the place up, especially Cambodia, that was the US, mainly Kissinger and Nixon.

Do you history much? They did not. They left most reluctantly. They had to be kicked out from everywhere. Of all colonial rulers France ranks second place after Belgium, in being the mostest evil. Simply based on the degrees of mess they left behind. Great Britain at least made an effort to educate people so there would be an educated elite to run things. France did no such thing.

There's an absolutely bizarre place a bit south of Kampot in Cambodia. Luxury houses, side by side in the shitest most run down area. Some houses built in the 70'ies. Really cool and stylish. When I entered one of them I was met by a chained up goat standing in the middle of a ball room. Wooden floor. Some farmers camp in one end of the ball room. Bizarre, in every way. Not that it has any bearing on this discussion. Just a memory flashback of Combodias fucked-upness.
Those who live in Southeast Asia's jungle states are an inferior human species in relation to the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese. Despite academic dogma, there is more than one human species. The most unfit still survive in literally No Man's Land. The academics engage in a lifetime escape from reality, so they should be ignored and logical conclusions should be arrived at independently of the ruling class's assigned sages.

The true homo sapiens nations should stop fighting among themselves and unite to partition and re-colonize the Third World. We must seize all the resources the genetically defective nations were incapable of ever developing on our own. Intellectual property rights based on the natural law, "Use It or Lose It." Self-determination for simian herds jealously determined to destroy us was a faddish decadent illusion. The race traitors in the ruling class have forfeited their self-appointed dominance over us.

Have you stopped taking your medication again?
 
I presume you have a link to Jews taking people out of their homes and setting them on fire?
I see you ignore recent events such as http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33729281 or http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/14/three-jewish-israelis-charged-kidnapping-killing-palestinian-boy.

I made my comment to show that your observation is simply emotionally charged rhetorical bias and nothing more. Unlike you, I believe murder is wrong, no matter who does it and who is the victim.

Or of xtians murdering abortionists at anywhere near the murdering Islamist rate?
Shift the goal post much? You said "no other followers" not "no other followers at the same rate".
So it's the action of individuals, not government policy like in Hamas, or Hezbollah! It's not Israelis torching innocent people. You fail to see the difference?
 
I presume you have a link to Jews taking people out of their homes and setting them on fire?
I see you ignore recent events such as http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33729281 or http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/14/three-jewish-israelis-charged-kidnapping-killing-palestinian-boy.

I made my comment to show that your observation is simply emotionally charged rhetorical bias and nothing more. Unlike you, I believe murder is wrong, no matter who does it and who is the victim.

Or of xtians murdering abortionists at anywhere near the murdering Islamist rate?
Shift the goal post much? You said "no other followers" not "no other followers at the same rate".
I think you are aware that Islamist terrorism is widespread, and no amount of explanation by apologists can change that fact!
 
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