Europe submits voluntarily

[repoman]

#IStandWithBoris

 

[TSwizzle]

I play my "that's a dumb conspiracy theory" card.

Most boats that get into trouble sink, killing everybody. Since the smuggling is illicit, there's no reliable numbers. We can only count the number of corpses washing up on shores. It's quite a lot. The odds of surviving one of these sinking boats isn't great. If the plan all along is to be picked up by NGO's it's the worst plan ever. <snip>

But that is what is happening and they seem to think it is worth the risk and expense.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I play my "that's a dumb conspiracy theory" card.

Most boats that get into trouble sink, killing everybody. Since the smuggling is illicit, there's no reliable numbers. We can only count the number of corpses washing up on shores. It's quite a lot. The odds of surviving one of these sinking boats isn't great. If the plan all along is to be picked up by NGO's it's the worst plan ever. <snip>

But that is what is happening and they seem to think it is worth the risk and expense.

They don't go out aiming to sink and get rescued. That's what I said was dumb. They go out hoping to get to the other side without sinking. To reach the other side undetected. Which is actually quite easy. It's a long coast and a short travel. They have to be unlucky to sink or get caught. Most migrants make it just fine. I met several when I volunteered in a Swedish homeless shelter.

The reason so many get into trouble and sink anyway is just the sheer number of them. There's a shit tonne of boats trekking across the sea. Not as many now as in 2015. But there's still a lot of them

 

[TSwizzle]

They don't go out aiming to sink and get rescued. That's what I said was dumb.

The aim is to get to the other side but they hope to get rescued before they sink. That's the risk they take and they gamble on that. And don't kid yourself, plenty of smugglers push them out to sea knowing full well the boat will not make it and the people on board are fucked if a rescue boat doesn't get them. And if the smugglers are actually on the boat, they are easy to spot, they are the only people wearing a life vest.

 

[repoman]

I am looking for the video of a ~75 person boat capsizing on purpose and waiting to be picked up. When they realize it will not happen they get back on the boat.

Seems to be a bit memory holed.

found it, or at least what is purported to be a purposeful sinking to then be picked up - problem is that the other boat could not pick them up. The description may or may not be true. tragic at any rate. But, what was the water and food level on those migrant boats?

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=086_1479777101

 

[repoman]

Show your open borders funding buddy this video

 

[Derec]

#IStandWithBoris

View attachment 16986

 

[Derec]

They don't go out aiming to sink and get rescued. That's what I said was dumb.

Yes, that would be dumb because it's cutting it close. They aim to get rescued just outside the Libyan waters, yes, but before they start sinking.

They go out hoping to get to the other side without sinking. To reach the other side undetected. Which is actually quite easy. It's a long coast and a short travel. They have to be unlucky to sink or get caught. Most migrants make it just fine. I met several when I volunteered in a Swedish homeless shelter.

That used to be the business plan. Used to be. Years ago. Now the plan is dependent on getting rescued close to Libya.

The reason so many get into trouble and sink anyway is just the sheer number of them. There's a shit tonne of boats trekking across the sea. Not as many now as in 2015. But there's still a lot of them

You are very accurately describing the situation from a few years ago. Then the smugglers used boats capable of reaching Lampedusa or even Sicily. Some got in trouble, usually due to overfilling, and had to be rescued. Once smugglers realized there were NGOs willing to take care of their human cargo though, they shifted tactics and now the boats used are only capable of running just outside the Libyan territorial waters where the NGOs are waiting for them. It makes NGOs into an integral part of the smugglers' business plan.

This article explains the change in smuggling tactics and how NGOs are being used as (witting or unwitting) accomplices of the smugglers.

Efforts to Rescue Migrants Caused Deadly, Unexpected Consequences

Smugglers use flimsy boats and provide just enough fuel to reach the edge of Libyan waters. Drivers can remove the engine and head back to Libya on another boat, leaving the migrants adrift until help arrives.

 

[Derec]

I play my "that's a dumb conspiracy theory" card.

It's not. It's a change in smuggling strategy. And NGOs are playing their part. See the NY Times article I linked to above.

Most boats that get into trouble sink, killing everybody. Since the smuggling is illicit, there's no reliable numbers. We can only count the number of corpses washing up on shores. It's quite a lot. The odds of surviving one of these sinking boats isn't great.

I think something like 2-4% of these migrants drown. That's pretty good odds.

https://qz.com/1331069/the-death-rate-for-migrants-crossing-the-mediterranean-is-skyrocketing/

I was right, that chart never goes above 4% and often it is significantly below it. I repeat: pretty good odds.

If the plan all along is to be picked up by NGO's it's the worst plan ever. There's not nearly enough NGO boats to police the whole coast. They rely on volonteers stationed all along the coast with regular binoculars, to report to the ships. The NGO's are badly coordinated, and the stations are mostly manned by green noobs. If the weather isn't perfect, it's tough titties, for the drowning migrants. I know a friend who volonteered doing this. So I know how it works.

May I ask what year he volonteered[sic]? Things changed between 2014 and 2016 as far as smuggling tactics.
Also, these boats have a satellite phone and actually make a distress call as soon as they are outside Libyan waters. That's because they do not want to be rescued by Libyan coastguard, but only by NGOs (whose boats hold station right outside the territorial waters), because the latter bring them to Europe.
You say that there are not enough NGOs, but there are enough for >100,000 mass migrants ferried to Europe per year.

The NGO's don't cooperate with the people smugglers.

Maybe not directly, although that is questionable. What is indisputable is that NGOs are are vital part of smugglers' business plan because they ferry mass migrants most of the way to Europe for free. There also seems to be some coordination with these satellite phone "distress" calls.

I have another friend who owns one of those boats. He's a Swedish billionaire with more money than sense. He's a libertarian against national borders. He's doing this idealogical reasons. He's just against keeping them out. And he's got a huge yacht that he only uses part of the year. So he just reasons that it's good use of the boat when he's not using it. That's the kind of boats involved in this. They're rarely rescue vessels.

They are all kinds of boats involved in this ferrying migrants business. Some bigger, some smaller.
Aquarius is one of the bigger ones for example.

May I ask how your friend made his money? Or did he inherit it?

But he also doesn't want to go to jail. Cooperating with the smugglers (who he has no love for) would be wildly illegal. He'd be breaking a shit tonne of laws. He has a lawyer to tell him what he's allowed to do. So they don't.

Just because your friend might not, does not mean all of them are doing the same.

The reason so many of these boats sink is just because of greed. The boat owners aren't any more educated than the migrants they're smuggling. They take loans from maffia to buy these boats and they're very well motivated to pay the loans off. The boat sinking would be a disaster for them. Even if they get rescued, it's still a disaster for them. It's nothing they want, and obviously nothing they plan for.

You are talking about the situation from before 2014. A lot has changed. Now they use cheap dinghies that are only fueled to get out of territorial waters. Anti-border NGos like your rich idiot friend do the rest.

 

[DrZoidberg]

They don't go out aiming to sink and get rescued. That's what I said was dumb.

The aim is to get to the other side but they hope to get rescued before they sink. That's the risk they take and they gamble on that. And don't kid yourself, plenty of smugglers push them out to sea knowing full well the boat will not make it and the people on board are fucked if a rescue boat doesn't get them. And if the smugglers are actually on the boat, they are easy to spot, they are the only people wearing a life vest.

What a great business model. Take a loan to buy a boat, take on passengers to pay off that loan, sink the boat = have nothing but the loan left. You've really thought this through.

Here's a tip, don't start a company. You don't seem to be strong at business finances. Obviously, sinking would be a disaster for these people. It's fucking dumb to think they're doing it on purpose.

It's also cute how you somehow feel that you have the ability to read their minds. I've read several articles about the smugglers. They all say the same thing. They're just small time businessmen. Poor opportunists who've seen a once in a lifetime opportunity to make some money. It's the same kind of people who become drug smugglers. These are people who feel they have nothing to lose. Which incidentally, is the same kind of people who leave Africa and migrate to Europe.

 

[DrZoidberg]

May I ask what year he volonteered[sic]? Things changed between 2014 and 2016 as far as smuggling tactics.

It was in February to March this year. She sat on the coast in Greece with binoculars, looking out over the sea. I should add that she's a complete idiot who is a failure at everything she does in life. Her "career" is improvisational theatre. If she wasn't good looking, nobody would care about her. I'm convinced that she missed any boat that sunk during her watch. I could not imagine anybody worse to be put in charge of that.

You are talking about the situation from before 2014. A lot has changed. Now they use cheap dinghies that are only fueled to get out of territorial waters. Anti-border NGos like your rich idiot friend do the rest.

Dumb. A dinghie can't make it across. If they are rescued they end up in refugee camps where they will eventually get rejected as refugees, and will be sent home. Great plan. Obviously they don't want to get "rescued", or aim for it. And assuming that they'll get rescued is stupid, since a lot of them aren't.

I think you read too much hysterical sensationalist press.

And finally, my rich friend with his yacht, only did that in 2015, and a bit of 2016, at the peak of the migrant crisis. There's a lot less migrants trying to get over now, so he didn't feel he was making much of a difference anymore. It's much harder to find the sinking boats now.

 

[angelo]

Boris has possibly committed a thought crime, investigation ensues;

Boris Johnson will be investigated by the Tory Party over his controversial comments comparing women in burqas to letterboxes, it was today revealed. The ex Foreign Secretary sparked a storm of controversy and was condemned by many party colleagues after making the comments, but has refused to apologise. The row has raged for four days with many Tory Remainers using it to stick the knife into Mr Johnson - a leading Brexiteer - and say he is not fit for office. Tory sources said the investigation was triggered automatically after they received a string of complaints about his words, which critics say risk fuelling hate crime.

DailyMail

Of course a lot of this will be fueled by politics and his enemies within the Tory party but the hand wringing from certain circles is heartfelt.

This is exactly why the UK needs this man to become the PM! In fact he's the only hope of keeping the insane socialist Corbyn from the UK treasury benches!

 

[angelo]

Show your open borders funding buddy this video

Billionaires like this guy and George Soros who demand open borders know t will never effect them and their decedents. By the way, where are the women and children. These men are the " army of Islam " and this is an invasion.

 

[angelo]

I know this is a completely different subject, but why was there no mention in the mainstream media that these perpetrates were the followers of the terrorist " profit!"

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/...-in-new-mexico-compound-starved-children-case

 

[DrZoidberg]

Boris has possibly committed a thought crime, investigation ensues;

Boris Johnson will be investigated by the Tory Party over his controversial comments comparing women in burqas to letterboxes, it was today revealed. The ex Foreign Secretary sparked a storm of controversy and was condemned by many party colleagues after making the comments, but has refused to apologise. The row has raged for four days with many Tory Remainers using it to stick the knife into Mr Johnson - a leading Brexiteer - and say he is not fit for office. Tory sources said the investigation was triggered automatically after they received a string of complaints about his words, which critics say risk fuelling hate crime.

DailyMail

Of course a lot of this will be fueled by politics and his enemies within the Tory party but the hand wringing from certain circles is heartfelt.

This is exactly why the UK needs this man to become the PM! In fact he's the only hope of keeping the insane socialist Corbyn from the UK treasury benches!

Ehe... Boris Johnsson was for Brexit. So not the sharpest knife in the box.

 

[angelo]

This is exactly why the UK needs this man to become the PM! In fact he's the only hope of keeping the insane socialist Corbyn from the UK treasury benches!

Ehe... Boris Johnsson was for Brexit. So not the sharpest knife in the box.

All the more reason! brexit was an anti Brussels vote pure and simple.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This is exactly why the UK needs this man to become the PM! In fact he's the only hope of keeping the insane socialist Corbyn from the UK treasury benches!

Ehe... Boris Johnsson was for Brexit. So not the sharpest knife in the box.

All the more reason! brexit was an anti Brussels vote pure and simple.

Wait, what? Are you for Brexit? Because why? Why would anybody in their right minds be against the EU?

 

[angelo]

All the more reason! brexit was an anti Brussels vote pure and simple.

Wait, what? Are you for Brexit? Because why? Why would anybody in their right minds be against the EU?

What's the EU ever done for the people of the UK except flood the nation with immigrants? That's partly the reason why Brexiters won the day.

 

[DrZoidberg]

All the more reason! brexit was an anti Brussels vote pure and simple.

Wait, what? Are you for Brexit? Because why? Why would anybody in their right minds be against the EU?

What's the EU ever done for the people of the UK except flood the nation with immigrants? That's partly the reason why Brexiters won the day.

Free trade? No tariffs? A political forum to discuss stuff to avoid international conflicts? Standards commissions, to standardise things across the EU? Also, free movement of labour is not a problem today. We don't have a shortage of jobs. We have a shortage of competent personel. So immigration is a non-issue.

I'm right now working in Denmark. I'm Swedish. I find this really handy. I can do this thanks to both countries being a member of EU. Ain't that great? I have collegues who now are forced to apply for Danish citizenship, just so they can be able to stay. Applying for citizenship is a fucking nightmare and best avoided. I am. I have zero wish to become Danish if I can help it.

It's incredibly handy that I can just move anywhere in Europe and work, with zero hassles. I value it extremely highly. I like that I have collegues from all over Europe.

I have collegues who are American. The beurocratic bullshit they have to deal with, because they're not EU citizens is something I'm happy I don't have to deal with. It's no fun.

 

[TSwizzle]

What a great business model. Take a loan to buy a boat, take on passengers to pay off that loan, sink the boat = have nothing but the loan left. You've really thought this through. Here's a tip, don't start a company. You don't seem to be strong at business finances. Obviously, sinking would be a disaster for these people. It's fucking dumb to think they're doing it on purpose.

A lot of the smugglers buy cheap inflatable dinghies, less than $1,000 a unit. It's a single use item and is a business overhead. Sometimes they steal fishing boats. There's money to be made.

It's also cute how you somehow feel that you have the ability to read their minds. I've read several articles about the smugglers. They all say the same thing. They're just small time businessmen. Poor opportunists who've seen a once in a lifetime opportunity to make some money. It's the same kind of people who become drug smugglers. These are people who feel they have nothing to lose. Which incidentally, is the same kind of people who leave Africa and migrate to Europe.

Nothing to do with mind reading. It's a fact. The smugglers push the migrants out to sea with a satellite phone telling them to call the NGO rescue boat when it starts to go tits up.