Europe submits voluntarily

[Derec]

Free trade? No tariffs? A political forum to discuss stuff to avoid international conflicts? Standards commissions, to standardise things across the EU? Also, free movement of labour is not a problem today. We don't have a shortage of jobs. We have a shortage of competent personel. So immigration is a non-issue.

I'm right now working in Denmark. I'm Swedish. I find this really handy. I can do this thanks to both countries being a member of EU. Ain't that great? I have collegues who now are forced to apply for Danish citizenship, just so they can be able to stay. Applying for citizenship is a fucking nightmare and best avoided. I am. I have zero wish to become Danish if I can help it.

It's incredibly handy that I can just move anywhere in Europe and work, with zero hassles. I value it extremely highly. I like that I have collegues from all over Europe.

I have collegues who are American. The beurocratic bullshit they have to deal with, because they're not EU citizens is something I'm happy I don't have to deal with. It's no fun.

Yes, EU has many positives, but the current EU migration policy (help migrants come in via NGO boats and make it incredibly difficult to deport any of them) is idiotic. That's a major reason Brexit succeeded. I think you are right that EU has many benefits, which is why I would prefer EU change its migration policies. Otherwise, UK will not be the last one to exit.

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What's the EU ever done for the people of the UK ...

 

[bilby]

That's very creative interpretation of what you are reading about this. The boat is still valuable. As is the satelite phone. They will want them back. Thinking anything else is dumb IMHO

What smugglers actually do is recover the engine and presumably the satellite phone as well once the "distress" call is made to the taxi service smugglers' little helpers NGO rescue boats.
Most smuggling these days is with cheap inflatable boats which are much cheaper than the moneys the smugglers get for a boat-full of illegals.

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Australia is an island, very far away from everything else. Most borders aren't as secure. There might as well be a land bridge across the Mediterranean. It's that damn easy to get across. I've travelled across the Baltic in a small sailing boat. That's harder than crossing the Mediterrenean. You have to be damn unlucky to fail in any boat

Yes, it's easier to secure Australia. That doesn't mean that EU should not do whatever it can to deter and defend against mass migration, instead of picking up migrants a few miles off the coast of Africa and bringing them to European shores.
I.e. just because not all illegal arrivals can be avoided is not reason to go out and help 100,000s of migrants invade Europe.

Yes, it's easier to secure Australia. Which must be a good thing - Just imagine how disastrous it would be if a bunch of criminals were allowed to settle here.

 

[Derec]

It was in February to March this year. She sat on the coast in Greece with binoculars, looking out over the sea. I should add that she's a complete idiot who is a failure at everything she does in life. Her "career" is improvisational theatre. If she wasn't good looking, nobody would care about her. I'm convinced that she missed any boat that sunk during her watch. I could not imagine anybody worse to be put in charge of that.

Well, I think those people helping illegal migrants are idiots by definition, so ...

Dumb. A dinghie can't make it across.

It doesn't have to - getting "rescued" is part of the plan. For smugglers it's a lot cheaper. You don't need very seaworthy boats and you need a lot less fuel. The rest of the trip is made by Proactiva Open Arms, Jugend Rettet, MSF or any of the other NGO taxi services patrolling 12 miles from the African shore. It's quite a good deal for the smugglers, and thus not at all dumb.

If they are rescued they end up in refugee camps where they will eventually get rejected as refugees, and will be sent home.

When? It's incredibly difficult to deport these illegal migrants. So they stay in Europe. 600,000 live in Italy, but 100,000s others have moved on to other EU countries like France, UK or Germany.

Great plan. Obviously they don't want to get "rescued", or aim for it. And assuming that they'll get rescued is stupid, since a lot of them aren't.

No, they do want to get rescued. And rescued by NGOs and not the Libyan Coast Guard (which brings them back). Getting rescued by NGOs means a free trip to EU, where they get to stay indefinitely.

I think you read too much hysterical sensationalist press.

No, it is not.

And finally, my rich friend with his yacht, only did that in 2015, and a bit of 2016, at the peak of the migrant crisis. There's a lot less migrants trying to get over now, so he didn't feel he was making much of a difference anymore. It's much harder to find the sinking boats now.

There are still a lot of boats coming across, but they have shifted to Spain now because the leftist government that took over there recently is much more friendly to mass migrants than the new government of Italy.

According to the U.N.’s International Organization for Migration, Spain has seen arrivals jump to 23,741 to August this year compared to just 8,677 in the same period in 2017 as countries such as Italy clamp down on arrivals along its coast.

From here.
It's insanity!

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Yes, it's easier to secure Australia. Which must be a good thing - Just imagine how disastrous it would be if a bunch of criminals were allowed to settle here.

Hey, they are your ancestors.

But what are you suggesting? That Australia should open its borders to Islamic mass migration?

 

[bilby]

Yes, it's easier to secure Australia. Which must be a good thing - Just imagine how disastrous it would be if a bunch of criminals were allowed to settle here.

Hey, they are your ancestors.

No, they aren't. I am a first generation immigrant; My ancestors were smart enough not to get caught.

But what are you suggesting? That Australia should open its borders to Islamic mass migration?

Religion has fuck all to do with it. Every time we have had large immigrant influxes we have had an economic boom.

And a bigoted backlash that's conveniently forgotten a few decades later, when the grandchildren of that wave of immigrants campaign against further immigration.

We are just like America in that regard. A nation of immigrants who are desperately trying to pretend that we own the place.

 

[Derec]

Religion has fuck all to do with it. Every time we have had large immigrant influxes we have had an economic boom.

It has a huge deal with it. If you import large numbers of migrants with a culture hostile to your own, bad things will happen.
You have not answered my question: do you want Australia open its borders to mass Islamic migration?

 

[bilby]

Religion has fuck all to do with it. Every time we have had large immigrant influxes we have had an economic boom.

It has a huge deal with it. If you import large numbers of migrants with a culture hostile to your own, bad things will happen.
You have not answered my question: do you want Australia open its borders to mass Islamic migration?

No. I want Australia to open its borders, but I don't want us to be invaded by hordes of ravening Muslims intent on rape, pillage and murder; For much the same reason I don't want us to be invaded by herds of feral unicorns.

Your loaded question is based on a false premise. Stick it back up your arse.

 

[Derec]

No. I want Australia to open its borders,

To everybody who wants to come in? That's stupid!

but I don't want us to be invaded by hordes of ravening Muslims intent on rape, pillage and murder; For much the same reason I don't want us to be invaded by herds of feral unicorns.

Except that the former exists.

Your loaded question is based on a false premise. Stick it back up your arse.

You pollyannaish understanding of what mass migration means is naive. If you do not select who comes in and how many, you obviously can get too many migrants for your country's needs and you will get a lot of criminals and extremists if you just let everybody in without vetting and selection. This is what's happening in Europe as we speak.

 

[bilby]

To everybody who wants to come in? That's stupid!


Except that the former exists.

Your loaded question is based on a false premise. Stick it back up your arse.

You pollyannaish understanding of what mass migration means is naive. If you do not select who comes in and how many, you obviously can get too many migrants for your country's needs and you will get a lot of criminals and extremists if you just let everybody in without vetting and selection. This is what's happening in Europe as we speak.

No, it isn't.

Your fears and fantasies are not a sound basis for policy.

 

[Derec]

No, it isn't.

Your fears and fantasies are not a sound basis for policy.

Fear is a necessary emotion. It's what keeps you alive when facing dangers. I am not for closing the borders to all immigration. However, all immigration should be
1. Based on country's needs
2. There should be vetting of all prospective immigrants for criminal behavior and extremist views. If somebody supports Sharia they should not get to immigrate. Period!
3. If a migrants commits a serious or violent crime or radicalizes him- or herself they should be deported. If they travel to Syria to join ISIS they should not be welcomed back.


That is contrasted to your proposed policy to open borders wide so that anybody who wants to come in can just come in, regardless of who they are or how many people want to come in. That is not a sound basis for policy!

 

[Ford]

To everybody who wants to come in? That's stupid!


Except that the former exists.

Your loaded question is based on a false premise. Stick it back up your arse.

You pollyannaish understanding of what mass migration means is naive. If you do not select who comes in and how many, you obviously can get too many migrants for your country's needs and you will get a lot of criminals and extremists if you just let everybody in without vetting and selection. This is what's happening in Europe as we speak.

No, it isn't.

Your fears and fantasies are not a sound basis for policy.

A good time to point out that this thread started 3 years ago next month, and Europe has still not fallen to the swarthy hordes as predicted.

 

[bilby]

No, it isn't.

Your fears and fantasies are not a sound basis for policy.

Fear is a necessary emotion. It's what keeps you alive when facing dangers. I am not for closing the borders to all immigration. However, all immigration should be
1. Based on country's needs
2. There should be vetting of all prospective immigrants for criminal behavior and extremist views. If somebody supports Sharia they should not get to immigrate. Period!
3. If a migrants commits a serious or violent crime or radicalizes him- or herself they should be deported. If they travel to Syria to join ISIS they should not be welcomed back.


That is contrasted to your proposed policy to open borders wide so that anybody who wants to come in can just come in, regardless of who they are or how many people want to come in. That is not a sound basis for policy!

Fear is the mind killer.

You live in the safest place and time in the history of the world. Your fear is out of date, and WAY out of proportion to any actual threats in your actual situation.

 

[Derec]

Fear is the mind killer.

No, it's not.

You live in the safest place and time in the history of the world. Your fear is out of date, and WAY out of proportion to any actual threats in your actual situation.

What you are is complacent. What's worse, you are complacent for ideological reasons. Your ideology won't let you contemplate any other policy than completely open borders.
What's wrong with my approach to immigration? Where you actually check and select who gets to come in and adjust the numbers that come in to your country's needs?

 

[ZiprHead]

What you are is complacent. What's worse, you are complacent for ideological reasons. Your ideology won't let you contemplate any other policy than completely open borders.

What you are is a coward. What's worse is you are a coward for... really no reason at all.

 

[Derec]

What you are is a coward. What's worse is you are a coward for... really no reason at all.

Not a coward and Islamization is a real threat. It has happened before, for example with Kosovo. It has been overrun by high birthrate Shiptars (aka Albanians) and now the native Serbs are 2nd class citizens.
Germans or English (for example) must not be complacent and think that that cannot happen to them as well.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Free trade? No tariffs? A political forum to discuss stuff to avoid international conflicts? Standards commissions, to standardise things across the EU? Also, free movement of labour is not a problem today. We don't have a shortage of jobs. We have a shortage of competent personel. So immigration is a non-issue.

I'm right now working in Denmark. I'm Swedish. I find this really handy. I can do this thanks to both countries being a member of EU. Ain't that great? I have collegues who now are forced to apply for Danish citizenship, just so they can be able to stay. Applying for citizenship is a fucking nightmare and best avoided. I am. I have zero wish to become Danish if I can help it.

It's incredibly handy that I can just move anywhere in Europe and work, with zero hassles. I value it extremely highly. I like that I have collegues from all over Europe.

I have collegues who are American. The beurocratic bullshit they have to deal with, because they're not EU citizens is something I'm happy I don't have to deal with. It's no fun.

Yes, EU has many positives, but the current EU migration policy (help migrants come in via NGO boats and make it incredibly difficult to deport any of them) is idiotic. That's a major reason Brexit succeeded. I think you are right that EU has many benefits, which is why I would prefer EU change its migration policies. Otherwise, UK will not be the last one to exit.

African migrants aren't touched by EU migration policy. Their comings and going is regulated by the UNCHR charter, which is still in effect. Farage and Johnsson just lied to the Brits what the Brexit vote was about. And you seem to still be in the dark. The only migration the EU regulates is migration within the EU. How could anybody possibly have a problem with that? The only result is that Europeans working in the UK that the UK actually needs, are now forced out. Well done!

I think the UK will be the last exit. Because it's pretty clear now how stupid it was.

 

[Jokodo]

But somehow, a few dozen Africans not going through Heathrow represents a "flood" and an "invasion".

My son's better at numbers than you guys, and he's only had one year of school so far.

A few dozen? It's thousands. And they are not here for vacation, but to stay forever, because it's virtually impossible to deport these illegals.

The number of arrivals in the entire month of July 2018, across the entire Mediterranean (Spain, Italy Greece) was 450 per day. For the entire year so far it was less than 300 per day. That's a tiny fraction of a percent of the daily international arrivals at Heathrow alone, let alone any other airports.

 

[angelo]

What smugglers actually do is recover the engine and presumably the satellite phone as well once the "distress" call is made to the taxi service smugglers' little helpers NGO rescue boats.
Most smuggling these days is with cheap inflatable boats which are much cheaper than the moneys the smugglers get for a boat-full of illegals.

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Yes, it's easier to secure Australia. That doesn't mean that EU should not do whatever it can to deter and defend against mass migration, instead of picking up migrants a few miles off the coast of Africa and bringing them to European shores.
I.e. just because not all illegal arrivals can be avoided is not reason to go out and help 100,000s of migrants invade Europe.

Yes, it's easier to secure Australia. Which must be a good thing - Just imagine how disastrous it would be if a bunch of criminals were allowed to settle here.

Obviously you live nowhere near the western suburbs of Sydney or Melbourne, especially Melbourne where they have a huge Somali criminal gangs running amok problem and the Socialist Republic of Victoria's government says doesn't exist!

 

[angelo]

No, they aren't. I am a first generation immigrant; My ancestors were smart enough not to get caught.

But what are you suggesting? That Australia should open its borders to Islamic mass migration?

Religion has fuck all to do with it. Every time we have had large immigrant influxes we have had an economic boom.

And a bigoted backlash that's conveniently forgotten a few decades later, when the grandchildren of that wave of immigrants campaign against further immigration.

We are just like America in that regard. A nation of immigrants who are desperately trying to pretend that we own the place.

The past waves of immigrants were mostly from Western Values countries of Europe who assimilated within one generation and less in most cases. South East Asians like Vietnamese worked their butts off and still do to make a decent living in a land of opportunity. The present hoards of mostly uneducated, from entirely different ideologies and values are not compatible. Most will never assimilate or even integrate because they are taught in the huge number of mosques sprouting up all over the Western world from their imams that their ideologies are superior and democracy is inferior to islam and sharia. They are not here to integrate but to supplement Western democracy and it's freedoms our ancestors went to war and died for.

 

[ZiprHead]

What you are is a coward. What's worse is you are a coward for... really no reason at all.

Not a coward and Islamization is a real threat. It has happened before, for example with Kosovo. It has been overrun by high birthrate Shiptars (aka Albanians) and now the native Serbs are 2nd class citizens.
Germans or English (for example) must not be complacent and think that that cannot happen to them as well.

Another perfects example. Countering with a cartoon depicting a false situation and displaying your irrational fear.

 

[untermensche]

The thought that the white Christian power structure of Britain and the US can be threatened by any conventional overthrow by Muslims is laughable.

It could only be a miraculous overthrow, thus proving the gods favors Islam.

What would happen to a radical Muslim in the US is they would either do something and go to jail or be killed or do nothing and their kids or at the latest grand kids will laugh at their stupid beliefs.