Europe submits voluntarily

[Loren Pechtel]

By joining a bloc they were taking sides in the conflict and thus making themselves targets of the other side. Those who didn't join the Soviet bloc we generally left alone. (However, the Soviets didn't leave alone those who didn't join our bloc!)

Freely joining with some other party is no justification for violent attack.

Joining a side in a war is.

Trying to defend yourself from US violence and attack is not a justification for it.

Except they weren't being attacked unless they joined.

Nations had the absolute right to join up with the Soviets. It was no justification to attack anybody.

The US and Russia were in a cold war. The allies of the other side are a valid target.

That the US had to attack people and violently pull them from having relations with the Soviets shows how pathetic the US side was.

No, what's pathetic is the USSR going after neutral nations such as Vietnam and Afghanistan.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing voluntary about having no choice but to submit.

Voluntary would mean having a choice and making the choice to be some cog in a dictatorial scheme.

Nobody chooses that willingly.

Many choose to work for somebody else so they can concentrate on what they are good at rather than having to worry about obtaining clients and all the other such things one must do when working for oneself.

 

[angelo]

Nothing voluntary about having no choice but to submit.

Voluntary would mean having a choice and making the choice to be some cog in a dictatorial scheme.

Nobody chooses that willingly.

But Europe is submitting to a barbaric, supremacist ideology even though it's still in their power today to resist it.


https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/01/hege-storhaug-moment-islam-europe-invaded-america-warned

https://gellerreport.com/2019/01/corbyn-finish-britain.html/

 

[TSwizzle]

Chickens attempting to come home to roost. By chickens I mean muslims that defected to ISIS are now trying to get back into Europe and the UK. This specimen, Shamima Begum, is particularly delusional but despite the UK home secretary's best efforts, the jihadi bride will likely weasel her way back in;

Riedijk, from Arnhem, joined ISIS in 2014 and married Shamima Begum within three weeks of her fleeing Bethnal Green (UK) for Syria in 2015. Two of their children died before the age of one due to malnutrition. Experts have said that the jihadi couple's newborn baby has the right to a UK passport and this could help his mother get back to the UK on human rights grounds.

DailyMail

Even Bangladesh does not want her;

The Bangladeshi ministry of foreign affairs has accused Sajid Javid of 'erroneously identifying' Shamima Begum as a dual citizen - and insisted she will not be allowed into the country. It comes as the 19-year-old was told she had been stripped of her British citizenship, a move which left her 'shocked' and now seeking citizenship in Holland - where her husband is from.

 

[untermensche]

Nothing voluntary about having no choice but to submit.

Voluntary would mean having a choice and making the choice to be some cog in a dictatorial scheme.

Nobody chooses that willingly.

But Europe is submitting to a barbaric, supremacist ideology even though it's still in their power today to resist it.


https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/01/hege-storhaug-moment-islam-europe-invaded-america-warned

https://gellerreport.com/2019/01/corbyn-finish-britain.html/

How is being an anti-Semite who will drive all the Jews from England anything new to Europe?

 

[Derec]

How is being an anti-Semite who will drive all the Jews from England anything new to Europe?

So because some horrible things were done in Europe 80 years ago, Europe must import millions of people who would like to do similarly horrible things again? And if they don't want to do it, they are a bunch of xenophobic, islamophobic racists of course.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Chickens attempting to come home to roost. By chickens I mean muslims that defected to ISIS are now trying to get back into Europe and the UK. This specimen, Shamima Begum, is particularly delusional but despite the UK home secretary's best efforts, the jihadi bride will likely weasel her way back in;

Riedijk, from Arnhem, joined ISIS in 2014 and married Shamima Begum within three weeks of her fleeing Bethnal Green (UK) for Syria in 2015. Two of their children died before the age of one due to malnutrition. Experts have said that the jihadi couple's newborn baby has the right to a UK passport and this could help his mother get back to the UK on human rights grounds.

DailyMail

Even Bangladesh does not want her;

The Bangladeshi ministry of foreign affairs has accused Sajid Javid of 'erroneously identifying' Shamima Begum as a dual citizen - and insisted she will not be allowed into the country. It comes as the 19-year-old was told she had been stripped of her British citizenship, a move which left her 'shocked' and now seeking citizenship in Holland - where her husband is from.

She was a child when she left England for ISIS. Where's your sense of proportion? Teenagers rebel against their parents. It's what they do. It's genetic programming. They're going to take radical steps which physically gets them away from their parents, and they will take whatever steps is available to them.

When I was a teenager in the 1990'ies there was a neo-Nazi trend among the kids. I know several people who became Nazis for a few years and then, after growing up, they all stopped that nonsense and became productive members of society. One of the guys is now a close friend of mine again, and he's a professor at Stockholm University holding a guest lecture series in Amman University in Jordan. He's a professor of religious history. If we'd have had your attitude towards that guy he'd been stripped of his Swedish citizenship for a, completely normal, act of teenage rebellion and his entire life would have been fucked.

Treating children like adults is wrong. It's also stupid out of purely economic reasons. Raising children is expensive for any society. What's the point raising kids and then just booting them out of the country.

With the risk of sounding politically incorrect... 19 year old's are usually still children. Most people don't calm down and start acting sensible until their mid 20'ies.

 

[angelo]

Why on Earth would any nation let alone practically a whole continent import among it's mist a people so alien to it's core values that it's changing it's whole civilisation from one millions died in two World Wars to defend to an unrecognizable one that of the many shitholes these barbarians come from!

https://www.politico.eu/article/bru...urope-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/

 

[TSwizzle]

Teenagers rebel against their parents. It's what they do. It's genetic programming. They're going to take radical steps which physically gets them away from their parents, and they will take whatever steps is available to them.

By joining a blood thirsty death cult in a foreign land and marrying one of the troops ? When teenagers rebel, they typically stay out late at night, get a tattoo, dye their hair, get a piercing etc. If she wanted to rebel against her muslim parents/guardians she could have put on a short skirt, wore some make up, listened to pop music, shagged a bloke on the living room sofa or whatever. There's more to this than exuberant rebellion.

With the risk of sounding politically incorrect... 19 year old's are usually still children. Most people don't calm down and start acting sensible until their mid 20'ies.

Be that as it may but there are still consequences for her actions.

I think she may actually be retarded.

 

[repoman]

Why on Earth would any nation let alone practically a whole continent import among it's mist a people so alien to it's core values that it's changing it's whole civilisation from one millions died in two World Wars to defend to an unrecognizable one that of the many shitholes these barbarians come from!

https://www.politico.eu/article/bru...urope-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/

Some possible reasons

- Ideology of guilt/virtue
- Import a voter base
- more people means more housing construction jobs
- more people into credit card debt and other debts
- cheaper labor
- worker base for retirements of current old people

Not everyone can be nice, polite Vietnamese for example in comparison to headstrong assholes like Arab muslims. Like comparing collies to pit bulls.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

With the risk of sounding politically incorrect... 19 year old's are usually still children. Most people don't calm down and start acting sensible until their mid 20'ies.

For the exact same reason I oppose trying kids as adults, I oppose trying adults as kids. If there is a legal standard, the government should stick by it. The government should obey the law.

 

[TSwizzle]

Some muslims in Birmingham are protesting Western values being taught in their madrases.

More than 300 parents and children gathered outside of a primary school yesterday to protest against lessons on homosexuality and gender. Some Muslim demonstrators said they would rather leave the UK than allow their children to continue attending Parkfield Community School in Birmingham. Some of the protesters said Islam did not accept homosexuality, while others said they were not against it but accused the teacher of promoting 'personal beliefs'.

DailyMail

 

[untermensche]

Sounds like what happens in Christian parts of the US.

The crazed religious fundamentalists in the US now have the Supreme Court they have dreamed about for decades.

Now they can outlaw all those abortions Jesus is mad about.

 

[Derec]

Some Muslim demonstrators said they would rather leave the UK ]

 

[Derec]

She was a child when she left England for ISIS.

She was not a child. Not really. She was a teenager. Using same word for everybody from 0-17 years ignores the huge difference in development in different stages of pre-legal adulthood life. A 15 year old is certainly much more closer in development to an 18 year old young adult than to a 12 year old pre-teen, much less a 9 year old child.

and they will take whatever steps is available to them.

So the only way for her to rebel was to join an Islamist terror group? She could not get bacon butties and wash it down with a pint of beer, or smoked some marijuana and had some pigs in a blanket for the munchies. You know, combined typical teenage behavior with some haram things thrown in to piss off her parents. No, she had to travel to a war zone. 3000 miles to the Southeast and 1000 years into the past.

If we'd have had your attitude towards that guy he'd been stripped of his Swedish citizenship for a, completely normal, act of teenage rebellion and his entire life would have been fucked.

Two differences. For one, they were of Swedish descent, but Begum is Bangladeshi. Second, they repented of their former views, while Begum is completely unrepentant.

Treating children like adults is wrong.

I think treating near-adults like small children is wrong. A 15 year old is different than a 12 year old is different than a 9 year old. They should not be all treated the same just because they are under 18. And besides, she is 19 now. A full on adult.

It's also stupid out of purely economic reasons. Raising children is expensive for any society. What's the point raising kids and then just booting them out of the country.

That's the sunk cost fallacy. It would take a lot more money to deradicalize her, if it is even possible to accomplish it.

With the risk of sounding politically incorrect... 19 year old's are usually still children. Most people don't calm down and start acting sensible until their mid 20'ies.

Most people do not go off and join ISIS.

 

[angelo]

I know that around 1.5 billion people follow this backward, totalitarian, bloodthirsty death cult, but anyone who's actually lived in a democratic Western culture then voluntarily sets off to fight for it may be of unsound mind. But wait, up to 70% of the followers of the terrorist Muhammad ARE of unsound mind!

 

[DrZoidberg]

So the only way for her to rebel was to join an Islamist terror group? She could not get bacon butties and wash it down with a pint of beer, or smoked some marijuana and had some pigs in a blanket for the munchies. You know, combined typical teenage behavior with some haram things thrown in to piss off her parents. No, she had to travel to a war zone. 3000 miles to the Southeast and 1000 years into the past.

The thing about rebellion is that they do things that adults disapprove of. Some will do what you mentioned. Some will do other stuff. I have an ex girlfriend who rebelled against her atheistic parents by joining Jehova's Witnesses. Kids do weird things.

If we'd have had your attitude towards that guy he'd been stripped of his Swedish citizenship for a, completely normal, act of teenage rebellion and his entire life would have been fucked.

Two differences. For one, they were of Swedish descent, but Begum is Bangladeshi.

What difference does that make? Your decent doesn't give you extra rights to live somewhere. Not to mention that we all descend from Africa. Human beings spread out extremely fast over this planet. If you start trying to come up with rules for how long your ancestors have had to live within some arbitrary range yada yada yada, you've just set yourself up for endless war and conflict. Also, for no reason. It solves no problems to think in nationalistic terms.

Second, they repented of their former views, while Begum is completely unrepentant.

We have a democracy. Freedom of thought is a feature of it. And an important feature of it. We want ideas to compete on a free market of ideas. It's awful if everybody agrees on the time. That's not a well functioning society.

Treating children like adults is wrong.

I think treating near-adults like small children is wrong. A 15 year old is different than a 12 year old is different than a 9 year old. They should not be all treated the same just because they are under 18. And besides, she is 19 now. A full on adult.

Me personally, I was very childish until I was 23. That's when I stopped blaming others for my mistakes and started to take personal responsibility.

It's also stupid out of purely economic reasons. Raising children is expensive for any society. What's the point raising kids and then just booting them out of the country.

That's the sunk cost fallacy. It would take a lot more money to deradicalize her, if it is even possible to accomplish it.

I'm against thought policing on ideological grounds. It would be immoral to have a demand that she has to be deradicalized. So we don't have to deradicalize her. Islamic radicals can also have jobs and are fully capable of being productive members of society.

The moment when we give people privileges based on them saying the right thing, then we've lost our freedoms. Not to mention lost our ability to know who is an Islamic radical. We don't want a situation where Islamic radicals are all in hiding. That makes it impossible to have a dialogue with them.

With the risk of sounding politically incorrect... 19 year old's are usually still children. Most people don't calm down and start acting sensible until their mid 20'ies.

Most people do not go off and join ISIS.

You don't know if you'd done the same in her shoes. You don't know what she's been through and what shaped her. Young people have to be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. Even serious mistakes.

 

[untermensche]

I know that around 1.5 billion people follow this backward, totalitarian, bloodthirsty death cult, but anyone who's actually lived in a democratic Western culture then voluntarily sets off to fight for it may be of unsound mind. But wait, up to 70% of the followers of the terrorist Muhammad ARE of unsound mind!

Takes one to know one.

 

[angelo]

I know that around 1.5 billion people follow this backward, totalitarian, bloodthirsty death cult, but anyone who's actually lived in a democratic Western culture then voluntarily sets off to fight for it may be of unsound mind. But wait, up to 70% of the followers of the terrorist Muhammad ARE of unsound mind!

Takes one to know one.

I suggest you at least read the front and back cover of this book.....................The Strange Death of Europe by Douglas Murray.


https://www.amazon.com.au/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472942248

 

[untermensche]

I know that around 1.5 billion people follow this backward, totalitarian, bloodthirsty death cult, but anyone who's actually lived in a democratic Western culture then voluntarily sets off to fight for it may be of unsound mind. But wait, up to 70% of the followers of the terrorist Muhammad ARE of unsound mind!

Takes one to know one.

I suggest you at least read the front and back cover of this book.....................The Strange Death of Europe by Douglas Murray.


https://www.amazon.com.au/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472942248

I know history and I know what US and British meddling has done to the ME for the last 100+ years.

The incredible short story is they:

Overturned the democracy in Iran. This led to a fundamentalist takeover which spread fundamentalism in the region.

Supported the dictatorship of Saudi Arabia. This has led to the spreading of fundamentalism in the region.

These two actions alone transformed great parts of the region into backward primitive fundamentalist strongholds. These nations have incredible wealth at their disposal.

Then more recently you have the massive terrorist attack of Iraq which ignited sectarian hostilities unseen in centuries. And you have the strengthening of Isis by providing it with military leadership money and weapons.

There are countless other actions that have produced a spread of fundamentalism in the region.

Yet there are still the very ignorant that wail about the fundamentalist nature of Muslims.

Many of them living in the Christian fundamentalist US where evolution is not believed by many.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Some muslims in Birmingham are protesting Western values being taught in their madrases.

More than 300 parents and children gathered outside of a primary school yesterday to protest against lessons on homosexuality and gender. Some Muslim demonstrators said they would rather leave the UK than allow their children to continue attending Parkfield Community School in Birmingham. Some of the protesters said Islam did not accept homosexuality, while others said they were not against it but accused the teacher of promoting 'personal beliefs'.

DailyMail

If they leave the UK isn't this a problem that will solve itself?