Europe - The Barbarian Invasion has Begun.

[untermensche]

Two dates will always be remembered as the beginning of the end by those who chronicled (or will chronicle):

The first: in 406 AD the Nordic and Germanic tribes crossed the Rhine southward, pouring into Gaul, Italy, and Spain to claim their entitlements of plunder from civilized Europe, unwillingly provided by a supine population that had lost its will or pride to survive as Romans.

The last: in 2015 AD the Muslim, Arab, and African tribes are crossing the Rhine, north into the lands of the now civilized Nordics and Germans to claim their entitlements of plunder, this time willingly provided by a supine European population that has lost its will or pride to survive as Europeans.

Please show me the evidence of this present-day "plundering"?

The West invades Iraq which leads to widespread chaos in the region.

People flee because they fear for their lives.

They are rational. They want to maximize their opportunity.

That is all that is happening.

 

[Ford]

I love the overt racism in this thread BTW.

Well I actually respect Max for that. He calls a spade a spade. It´s the others that not only deny their own racism but insist that racism is not an issue anymore, those guys tend to be cowards. Max you know where he stands.

I don't respect racism, either overt or covert. It is an idea which belongs on the trash heap of history, but here it is proudly rearing it's ugly head once again. This and the other thread ("Europe Submits Voluntarily") are premised upon the idea that Europe is a special place because white Christian folks made it that way, and the swarthy Muslims dilute the racially pure nature of nations from the tip of Scandinavia down to the Mediterranean.

Casting this influx of refugees and migrants as an invading horde is so blatantly intellectually dishonest as to be laughable.

 

[Frikki]

Well I actually respect Max for that. He calls a spade a spade. It´s the others that not only deny their own racism but insist that racism is not an issue anymore, those guys tend to be cowards. Max you know where he stands.

I don't respect racism, either overt or covert. It is an idea which belongs on the trash heap of history, but here it is proudly rearing it's ugly head once again. This and the other thread ("Europe Submits Voluntarily") are premised upon the idea that Europe is a special place because white Christian folks made it that way, and the swarthy Muslims dilute the racially pure nature of nations from the tip of Scandinavia down to the Mediterranean.

Casting this influx of refugees and migrants as an invading horde is so blatantly intellectually dishonest as to be laughable.

I don´t respect his racism, I respect that he is open about it unlike the rest of the racists here.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There were too many Arabs and Asians coming into the UK even quite a few years ago. So I left Britain and worked in the Middle East and then Asia.

Just one more foreign barbarian coming into their country and trying to undermine their culture, eh?

Abu Dhabi and Dubai is famous for the duty free alcohol and imported hookers. For families some hotels are to be avoided. While my wife went the hotel room in one place I complained about the hookers as they didn't speak English.
Generally such ill repute is tolerated as relatives of the Sheiks own most of the hotels and its good for the hospitality trade. However each year a number of locals are sentenced to lashings due to being drunk and disorderly or found with women of ill repute.

 

[iolo]

There is a huge space for barbarians in Europe, when you consider the vast numbers we exported to America!

 

[Rhea]

Can we start a GoFundMe to get Max a blankie that might mitigate the ferocious monster under his bed?

 

[Jokodo]

The last: in 2015 AD the Muslim, Arab, and African tribes are crossing the Rhine, north into the lands of the now civilized Nordics and Germans to claim their entitlements of plunder, this time willingly provided by a supine European population that has lost its will or pride to survive as Europeans.

Get yourself a map, dude. There is no Rhine on the route from Izmir to Frankfurt via Aegean Islands, Athens, Saloniki, Belgrade, Graz, Linz, Passau.

 

[DrZoidberg]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/11/the-camp-of-the-saints-is-here.php

In 476 the last Roman Emperor was dead. The German Tribal Leader, Odoacer, would inherit the broken remnants of a once great civilization, proudly declaring that "I am not a Roman, I am a barbarian". I suspect it won't take another 70 years before we hear the new invaders proud declaration of rule by an alien tribe.

Let the dark ages begin!

There's just one slight problem with that comparison. The Roman empire didn't only fall because they let in the Germanic tribes. They fell because they had become technologically, socially and militarily inferior to the Germanic tribes. The Roman empire fell for a very good reason and deserved/needed to go. It was good riddance. Europe under the Romans wasn't a glorious age which then stopped. As far as the people in general was concerned it was a slow and steady constant, uninterrupted, rise of wealth and technological development right through "the fall". The fall was just a minor hiccup* The only major thing that changed was the last names of the nobles in charge. Less than 0.1% of the population. If even that. Since the germanic invaders were Christian the system of monasteries was kept as well as the religious hierarchy. So the educational system was kept, as well as expanded. The Roman "patron system" meant that corruption was built into the system and impossible to deal with. Corruption is always bad, and hinders progress. The fall of the Roman empire, at least in theory, allowed the new rulers to fix that problem.

The "Dark Ages" is a misnomer. It wasn't.

* Yes, it was bad for the city of Rome itself. But the empire had kept Romes population large though massive massive (and expensive) subsidies, draining Rome's economy. It made no sense having a city of that size. But it was a mascot of the empire for historical reasons. When the Egyptian grain ships stopped coming (because of the fall of the Roman empire) the market re-adjusted to what it had been without subsidies. Which was a tiny city the fraction of it's size = a good thing.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Cross posted with Ziodberg's most excellent post.
"Barbarians" and the history of the Late Roman Period often lumps all groups of "Germans" into two very politicized camps (depending upon the myth you want to subscribe to).

#1) Uncivilized, feral groups who destroyed the high culture and achievements of the Roman Empire (forgetting the Empire was still functioning in the East)
#2) Vigorous virile regular folk who were able to topple a decadent, feminine society.

Now the OP clearly lies in the first camp and of course our current understanding of the period is much more complex. To begin with, the frontier was not a solid wall and there was trade, contact, and alliances between Rome and the various groups. Many groups outside of Rome did want to enjoy the benefits of the Empire and sough admission. Also, it was not the Romans who almost industrialized in this period, but certain German tribes were already operating foundries running round the clock in three eight hour shifts producing arms for the Roman Armies. When the end did come it was tribal groups stepping into a power vacuum created by the political and military decline of the Roman state. - A prime example is when Roman Britain was told to go it alone and abandoned to independence in 410.

Now my actual point is that the OP is playing into a 19th and 20th Century political narrative based in European politics and reinforced by the rivalry between France and Germany during this time which helped both countries define themselves along either one of these two points. You were either with Herman the German, or you were against. There was much scholarship done to prove one or the other of these narratives to the disregard of the actual history.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm confused, are the Germans a tribe of uncivilized mongrels or a proud civilization at the mercy of uncivilized mongrels? Because if they changed from the former to the latter, that would imply that large groups of people are not defined by their genetic stock or culture of origin, and can adapt over time. That can't be true, right?

 

[dystopian]

The last: in 2015 AD the Muslim, Arab, and African tribes are crossing the Rhine, north into the lands of the now civilized Nordics and Germans to claim their entitlements of plunder, this time willingly provided by a supine European population that has lost its will or pride to survive as Europeans.

Get yourself a map, dude. There is no Rhine on the route from Izmir to Frankfurt via Aegean Islands, Athens, Saloniki, Belgrade, Graz, Linz, Passau.

Instead of Muslims, Arabs, and Africans crossing the Rhine to plunder... he probably meant "French people inexplicably venturing north for their vacationing needs instead of south and east like they normally do".

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'm confused, are the Germans a tribe of uncivilized mongrels or a proud civilization at the mercy of uncivilized mongrels? Because if they changed from the former to the latter, that would imply that large groups of people are not defined by their genetic stock or culture of origin, and can adapt over time. That can't be true, right?

Shrödingers barbarian?

 

[maxparrish]

I'm confused, are the Germans a tribe of uncivilized mongrels or a proud civilization at the mercy of uncivilized mongrels? Because if they changed from the former to the latter, that would imply that large groups of people are not defined by their genetic stock or culture of origin, and can adapt over time. That can't be true, right?

Sure they can...it only took 600 years before national identities started to emerge the last time around. Is that great or what?

------------

As expected, the hostile responses to my OP are variations of a single theme of denial. Some carp about a literary allusion of "crossing the Rhine" demanding maps to check literalness; others bemoan my racism; others resort to name-calling; and yet others bicker about the specifics of events in 406 BC; and finally there are some who "analyze" the origin of the allusion as if that makes it any less true.

Almost none can deal with the OP fact that the huge migratory waves of an alien and comparatively barbaric people have begun to claim their plunder as social entitlement. None can deal with the rising social conflict it is causing, or massive economic burden it is creating.

None are facing the inevitable consequences from the arrival of millions that are culturally benighted, behaviorally challenged, and genetically ungifted. Swedes and Germans are subsidizing the immolation of their own superior cultural, social, and racial identity so as to create what? The "promise" of polyglot ethnic sub-cultures in endless social and economic conflict, some destined for eternal inferiority and resentment as welfare cultures.

The Northern European, is of high intelligence, is much less prone to crime, embraces human rights, and is deeply rooted as a member of a historic European peoples. Since WWII they have finally established cohesive and peaceful societies with high degrees of social capital and high standards of living.

The typical invader has none of these qualities, and bring religious views violently hostile to modernity. The continued and endless mass importation of poverty and the establishment of an ever growing racial-ethnic underclass is only destined to erase heritage peoples and the societies they have built.

In the meantime, on the comedic level:

Two buses packed with refugees arrived at the park in Lima in west Sweden on Sunday, but around 30 passengers initially refused to disembark.

Charlotte Jacobsson, a press spokesperson for Sweden’s Migration Board (Migrationsverket) confirmed to The Local that a number of the asylum seekers had felt uncomfortable being surrounded by so much forest.

“Yes, that is the information we had from some people,” she said.

[….]

Some of the travellers are understood to have spent the entire night on the bus.

https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wo...efuse-housing-in-a-beautiful-wooded-location/

Who knows, we may yet see archaeologists digging in Sweden in our lifetime, as they sink probes into the rubble seeking answers to the question of "what happened"?

 

[maxparrish]

More tragi-comedy in the fall of Europe...

The New York Times this week reported on the situation in Sumte, a tiny hamlet in Germany of approximately 100 people. There is no school, or shops. They woke up one morning the news that the German government is sending them 750 immigrants from other nations and cultures to move in with them.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/0...ad.php?thread_id=3031936&mc=2&forum_id=2&_r=0

Welcome to multiculturalism!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, that's good. Maybe they'll finally get someone with enough of a can-do attitude to finally open a fucking shop in the place.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Sure they can...it only took 600 years before national identities started to emerge the last time around. Is that great or what?

------------

As expected, the hostile responses to my OP are variations of a single theme of denial. Some carp about a literary allusion of "crossing the Rhine" demanding maps to check literalness; others bemoan my racism; others resort to name-calling; and yet others bicker about the specifics of events in 406 BC; and finally there are some who "analyze" the origin of the allusion as if that makes it any less true.

Could it be that we find your comparison comedic based current elementary understanding of the Late Roman Period and Early Middle Ages? The period is fascinating and understanding of the period has direct influences and impact on the understanding our world today. It is also quaint how outdated racial & nationalistic narratives from political agendas set in the 1800s figure into the OP. The following was not how Rome "fell", but the myth you are trying to perpetuate:

Almost none can deal with the OP fact that the huge migratory waves of an alien and comparatively barbaric people have begun to claim their plunder as social entitlement. None can deal with the rising social conflict it is causing, or massive economic burden it is creating.

None are facing the inevitable consequences from the arrival of millions that are culturally benighted, behaviorally challenged, and genetically ungifted. Swedes and Germans are subsidizing the immolation of their own superior cultural, social, and racial identity so as to create what? The "promise" of polyglot ethnic sub-cultures in endless social and economic conflict, some destined for eternal inferiority and resentment as welfare cultures.

So everyone is going to stay, or will they do like most refugees do groups do and have the great majority go back to their home country once the crisis has passed? Can you see into the future?

The Northern European, is of high intelligence, is much less prone to crime, embraces human rights, and is deeply rooted as a member of a historic European peoples.

But yet you bemoan the social democracies that these people have set up. The ones that are welcoming these people.

To perpetuate and counter another myth:

The typical invader has none of these qualities, and bring religious views violently hostile to modernity. The continued and endless mass importation of poverty and the establishment of an ever growing racial-ethnic underclass is only destined to erase heritage peoples and the societies they have built.

Spoken just like a Roman, or a Frenchman, or Great Lakes industrialist describing Scandinavian immigrants.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, that's good. Maybe they'll finally get someone with enough of a can-do attitude to finally open a fucking shop in the place.

It will be good for the local economy. Too bad it is filled with Germans.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, that's good. Maybe they'll finally get someone with enough of a can-do attitude to finally open a fucking shop in the place.

It will be good for the local economy. Too bad it is filled with Germans.

Well, lazy socialist Germans who don't want to work. If you're going to spend your life suckling off the government teet and not giving anything back, you have no right to complain about it when the government finally asks you to do something in return. Some people, like these townsfolk and Max, just can't get it through their head that communism is an unworkable socioeconomic system.

 

[Jokodo]

More tragi-comedy in the fall of Europe...

The New York Times this week reported on the situation in Sumte, a tiny hamlet in Germany of approximately 100 people. There is no school, or shops. They woke up one morning the news that the German government is sending them 750 immigrants from other nations and cultures to move in with them.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/0...ad.php?thread_id=3031936&mc=2&forum_id=2&_r=0

Welcome to multiculturalism!

Die Welt:

Nach Bekanntwerden der Pläne waren in dem kleinen Dorf im Landkreis Lüneburg erhebliche Bedenken laut geworden, doch jetzt ist die Aufregung weitgehend dem Pragmatismus gewichen, scheint es. "Für uns heißt es jetzt konstruktiv mit den Herausforderungen umzugehen", sagt Ortsvorsteher Christian Fabel. "Wir hoffen weiterhin, dass die Breitbandversorgung fürs Internet kommt."

Weil es in Sumte keine Einkaufsmöglichkeiten gibt, ist ein kleiner Laden auf dem Gelände des Bürodorfs eingerichtet worden, Shuttle-Busse sollen die Unterkunft mit den Orten der Umgebung verbinden. "Es wäre schön, wenn man das auch für die Einwohner mit dem Nahverkehr koordinieren könnte", sagt Fabel.

<snip>

Noch ein Vorteil für Sumte: "Bislang sind schon 55 Arbeitsplätze entstanden", sagt ASB-Sprecherin Droba. Mehr als 100 Bewerbungen seien eingegangen, mehrere der neuen Kollegen stammen aus dem Ort.

Rough translation:

After the plans became public, there were considerable concerns, but those have largely made place for a pragmatic approach by now, it seems. Because there have been no shopping facilities in the village, a small shop opened on the premises, a former office complex, and shuttle busses are going to connect the village with surrounding places - the villages are hoping to benefit from that too. Another advantage for Sumte: The refugee shelter has already created 55 new jobs, many of which have been taken by villagers​

Doesn't sound quite as apocalyptic now, does it?

 

[dystopian]

Almost none can deal with the OP fact that the huge migratory waves of an alien and comparatively barbaric people have begun to claim their plunder as social entitlement.

None can deal with the rising social conflict it is causing, or massive economic burden it is creating.

And some of us understand enough about numbers and relativity in general to know that describing the number of refugees and immigrants as 'huge' is nothing more than lunatic hysteria; and some, often overlapping with the previously mentioned some, are capable of understanding that the evidence (and actual intelligent analytical thinking) suggests that there's no long-term economic burden but rather a surplus being created.

And then some few people, of the sort who tend to start hysteria-driven threads, are incapable of reason and need it slapped it into them.

 

[Jokodo]

Sure they can...it only took 600 years before national identities started to emerge the last time around. Is that great or what?

Yeah, because "national identities is the single most relevant marker of an advanced and enlightened society

------------

As expected, the hostile responses to my OP are variations of a single theme of denial. Some carp about a literary allusion of "crossing the Rhine" demanding maps to check literalness; others bemoan my racism; others resort to name-calling; and yet others bicker about the specifics of events in 406 BC; and finally there are some who "analyze" the origin of the allusion as if that makes it any less true.

Almost none can deal with the OP fact <snip>

The OP isn't about facts.

None are facing the inevitable consequences from the arrival of millions that are culturally benighted, behaviorally challenged, and genetically ungifted.

If you believe that the people arriving now are "genetically" ungifted relative to Swedes and Germans, you should have sought a better historical parallel than the Swedes and Germans' ancestors. Duh.

Swedes and Germans are subsidizing the immolation of their own superior cultural, social, and racial identity so as to create what? The "promise" of polyglot ethnic sub-cultures in endless social and economic conflict, some destined for eternal inferiority and resentment as welfare cultures.

The Northern European, is of high intelligence, is much less prone to crime, embraces human rights, and is deeply rooted as a member of a historic European peoples. Since WWII they have finally established cohesive and peaceful societies with high degrees of social capital and high standards of living.

Only a couple generations. And anyway, going back to the ideology of 75 years ago in order to conserve the achievements of the last 70 years is a contradiction in terms.

The typical invader has none of these qualities, and bring religious views violently hostile to modernity. The continued and endless mass importation of poverty and the establishment of an ever growing racial-ethnic underclass is only destined to erase heritage peoples and the societies they have built.

Sure. Just like the endless mass importation of Irish and Italians to the Northeast US, and the endless mass importation of Germans and Scandinavians to the Midwest, erased American society.