European nations recognizing Palestine?

[Jayjay]

That and the fact that the sporadic rocket fire coming out of Lebanon isn't coming from HEZBOLLAH.

This seems to be a common problem for you, not being able to tell the difference between vastly different political groups just because they belong to the same race. What next, you'll be telling me that gang violence in Chicago is caused by the New Black Panthers?

Who else has power there? Nobody.

You're assumign that Hezbollah has full control over every square inch of Southern Lebanon, which is untrue. How hard is it for Palestinian terrorists to smuggle in one or two rockets and fire them, then sneak back to refugee camps or Syria? The rocket launch pads aren't that large.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Who else has power there? Nobody.

You're assumign that Hezbollah has full control over every square inch of Southern Lebanon, which is untrue. How hard is it for Palestinian terrorists to smuggle in one or two rockets and fire them, then sneak back to refugee camps or Syria? The rocket launch pads aren't that large.

Note the lack of a border between Lebanon and Gaza.

Why would Hamas smuggle rockets over there anyway?

 

[Jayjay]

You're assumign that Hezbollah has full control over every square inch of Southern Lebanon, which is untrue. How hard is it for Palestinian terrorists to smuggle in one or two rockets and fire them, then sneak back to refugee camps or Syria? The rocket launch pads aren't that large.

Note the lack of a border between Lebanon and Gaza.

Why would Hamas smuggle rockets over there anyway?

Did I say Hamas? They are not the only Palestinian group. And why would they smuggle weapons from Gaza, usually the problem is how to get weapons into Gaza and not vice versa?

 

[Underseer]

You're assumign that Hezbollah has full control over every square inch of Southern Lebanon, which is untrue. How hard is it for Palestinian terrorists to smuggle in one or two rockets and fire them, then sneak back to refugee camps or Syria? The rocket launch pads aren't that large.

Note the lack of a border between Lebanon and Gaza.

Why would Hamas smuggle rockets over there anyway?

So because they are firing rockets, they should not be recognized as a nation?

Please say yes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Note the lack of a border between Lebanon and Gaza.

Why would Hamas smuggle rockets over there anyway?

So because they are firing rockets, they should not be recognized as a nation?

Please say yes.

I see no connection between your reply and my post.

 

[Draconis]

I'm trying to think how many nations exist that have not been recognized. (looks on Wikipedia) Yes there are some that are not recognized by everyone else (eg China!) Yet these countries seem to get along without complete recognition.

Just how did nations set themselves up before the UN started? It's like buying a house and having to ask everyone else in town whether they accept your right to own it.

 

[arkirk]

Note the lack of a border between Lebanon and Gaza.

Why would Hamas smuggle rockets over there anyway?

Did I say Hamas? They are not the only Palestinian group. And why would they smuggle weapons from Gaza, usually the problem is how to get weapons into Gaza and not vice versa?

So far, the most successful efforts to deliver weapons to Gaza have been the IDF sponsored by the U.S. govt. They not only get them in there...they expode them. There is no question this problem has been there for over 60 years and with men like Netanyahu in charge, it will continue. During the State of the Union address, Obama acted in a contradictory manner pretending to be Mr. Peace. Whether it is drones all over the world or merely feeding the IDF killing machine, he is NOT MR. PEACE.

 

[angelo]

So according to you the IDF should be renamed to IBF? The IDF is doing what all people in Democratic nations expect from their forces, and that's to defend them if attacked!

 

[lpetrich]

Italian lawmakers urge recognition of Palestinian state | Reuters

Italian lawmakers on Friday backed a non-binding resolution that encourages the government to recognize Palestine as a state, a move that underlines European frustration over stalled Middle East peace negotiations. ...

Italy's Chamber of Deputies voted by 300 to 45 to pass the motion presented by Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's Democratic Party (PD) "to promote the recognition of Palestine as a democratic state". ...

Italian lawmakers did not back a stronger motion, supported by the left-wing Left Ecology and Liberty party, that would have "fully and formally recognized the Palestinian State".

Who's next?

 

[angelo]

Who's next? Hamas apologists have infiltrated most of the Western World without giving it a thought. I wonder what the Italian government would do if their people were fired upon by rocket fire indiscriminately. Wouldn't they try to defend their people? But then again, the Italians aren't renown for their military prowess.

 

[Arctish]

Who's next? Hamas apologists have infiltrated most of the Western World without giving it a thought. I wonder what the Italian government would do if their people were fired upon by rocket fire indiscriminately. Wouldn't they try to defend their people? But then again, the Italians aren't renown for their military prowess.

Recognizing Palestine as a country is not the same thing as recognizing Hamas as a nice, friendly group of guys.

Not even close.

 

[angelo]

The Palestinians were offered their state but refused it on more than one occasion. What they want is the whole land from the river to the sea. In other words for an Israeli genocide not seen since the 40's.

How can any nation recognise Gaza ruled by Hamas and the West Bank ruled by PA? They are not even united except that both want all Jews dead everywhere and not just in Israel.

 

[arkirk]

Who's next? Hamas apologists have infiltrated most of the Western World without giving it a thought. I wonder what the Italian government would do if their people were fired upon by rocket fire indiscriminately. Wouldn't they try to defend their people? But then again, the Italians aren't renown for their military prowess.

Recognizing Palestine as a country is not the same thing as recognizing Hamas as a nice, friendly group of guys.

Not even close.

I see a problem with "recognizing Palestine." The problem is in determining just which Palestine. It does need to be recognized and it needs a lot of help it is not getting. I got jumped and blindsided for saying that some cultures are backward, even though some cultures truly have been frozen in their past for a long time. I was reminded of this the other day when Netanyahu spoke of a Jewish struggle to reestablish the homeland 2500 years long. So here we have a warrior who wants to be the David of the 21st century. In the face of this, how dare the Europeans recognize the Philistines or Israel?

Welcome to the arena. On this side, Israel which currently has a leg up, being supported in its land grabbing and ethnic cleansing by contributions from unwary world wide Jewry and the government of the United States. In the other corner, the current challenger for the last 70 years and former champ of the area for several thousand years...Palestine. To anybody without a beam in his eye, this conflict is absolutely and obscenely unnecessary and pointless. This understanding of the area should be obvious to anybody who is free of either of these narcissistic religions. Unfortunately in the United States, there are Christian cults whose literature is heavy with involvement in the same general area as Israel or Palestine. They seem to believe that the end of days requires a serious Armageddon-like conflict in what they call the Holy Land to reify their prophetic book Revelations. How dare nations in Europe have any other idea about the area according to the Evangelicals? So here we are, neither Jew, nor Christian, nor Muslim and we are asked to take sides. We need to understand that THERE IS NO SIDE that represents us in the conflict. There is no side it is in our interest to help destroy the other side.

Our thinking has become so competitive, we maybe feel we have some stake in what happens in Palestine. Perhaps we do, but our only reasonable approach is to always support only peace and a lessening of the grip of religion on the area. Our bombing of so many ME cities looks a lot like Armageddon to the Evangelicals and this might have something to do with their desire to see their holy text and prophecy proven true. This shouldn't interest us and in fact we should be opposing this mindset. This may sound simplistic, but then the religions that feed this conflict ARE SIMPLISTIC and so is the news fed to the entire American public by compromised mass media.

The fact that Israel has nuclear weapons probably makes the Evangelicals wet on the bottom with anticipation of Rapture. It appears modern Christian America supports Netanyahu and his enterprise and opposes the less well fed, housed, educated and armed rag tag Palestinians with their false god. I hate to have to reinform you...all the gods are false, including the gods of oil and capital along with the ancient three. I always thought it was peculiar that the ancient three all claim to trace their faith to the SAME GOD at some point and have only redefined god incrementally over the centuries to such a degree they kill each other over the differences they have created.

A good atheist nation (which we are not) would withdraw all support from all sides in this conflict, so there is more that should be done...like withdraw recognition of Israel. It is a tiny area and is not worth the trouble it has been to us. I should not rate even one F-16 and definitely not 200 nuclear bombs in violation of the Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty, which IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE FOR ANYBODY BUT IRAN. Talk about this conflict is so skewed by so many different interests all of which are purely speculative. We never stop and consider all the human beings that continue to languish in the backwardness because we support Israel. Some of them live in Israel and they too can have their homes and lands taken from them by force.

Granted some of these Arabs cut off heads. But we and Israel blow them off with Hellfire missiles. We need to understand that this area is pure liability for our country and perhaps the entire world and adopt a neutral language that only describes conditions on the ground and not speculation about either religion or oil.

 

[Arctish]

The Palestinians were offered their state but refused it on more than one occasion.

Link, please. Who made these offers, what exactly was being offered, and did any of these offers include Israeli recognition of the right of non-jews to stay in their homes on land Zionists claimed for the Jewish State? The last time I looked into this (fairly recently) there was no offer for Palestinians to remain in their homes and have a say in their government. There were only plans to make permanent the refugee status of millions of them, and force the others to become the subject of foreign kings and dictators.

What they want is the whole land from the river to the sea. In other words for an Israeli genocide not seen since the 40's.

Some want that. But the majority of Palestinians have accepted the 1967 lines as the permanent boundary between Israel and Palestine, and are on board with a token return of refugees to their homes within Israel proper while the rest of them build new homes in the West Bank and Gaza.

How can any nation recognise Gaza ruled by Hamas and the West Bank ruled by PA? They are not even united except that both want all Jews dead everywhere and not just in Israel.

Well, first you have to recognize that the West Bank and Gaza are not parts of Israel, and the rest comes easy. Not Israel --> some other land in the area historically referred to as Palestine --> Palestine.

It's time for Israel to fish or cut bait. Either the West Bank and Gaza are part of Israel, in which case the welfare of the people living there is the responsibility of the Israeli government, or they are not part of Israel, in which case Israel has to get its settlers out of there and return the land and resources to the Palestinians.

 

[Arctish]

Recognizing Palestine as a country is not the same thing as recognizing Hamas as a nice, friendly group of guys.

Not even close.

I see a problem with "recognizing Palestine." The problem is in determining just which Palestine. It does need to be recognized and it needs a lot of help it is not getting. I got jumped and blindsided for saying that some cultures are backward, even though some cultures truly have been frozen in their past for a long time. I was reminded of this the other day when Netanyahu spoke of a Jewish struggle to reestablish the homeland 2500 years long. So here we have a warrior who wants to be the David of the 21st century. In the face of this, how dare the Europeans recognize the Philistines or Israel?

Welcome to the arena. On this side, Israel which currently has a leg up, being supported in its land grabbing and ethnic cleansing by contributions from unwary world wide Jewry and the government of the United States. In the other corner, the current challenger for the last 70 years and former champ of the area for several thousand years...Palestine. To anybody without a beam in his eye, this conflict is absolutely and obscenely unnecessary and pointless. This understanding of the area should be obvious to anybody who is free of either of these narcissistic religions. Unfortunately in the United States, there are Christian cults whose literature is heavy with involvement in the same general area as Israel or Palestine. They seem to believe that the end of days requires a serious Armageddon-like conflict in what they call the Holy Land to reify their prophetic book Revelations. How dare nations in Europe have any other idea about the area according to the Evangelicals? So here we are, neither Jew, nor Christian, nor Muslim and we are asked to take sides. We need to understand that THERE IS NO SIDE that represents us in the conflict. There is no side it is in our interest to help destroy the other side.

Our thinking has become so competitive, we maybe feel we have some stake in what happens in Palestine. Perhaps we do, but our only reasonable approach is to always support only peace and a lessening of the grip of religion on the area. Our bombing of so many ME cities looks a lot like Armageddon to the Evangelicals and this might have something to do with their desire to see their holy text and prophecy proven true. This shouldn't interest us and in fact we should be opposing this mindset. This may sound simplistic, but then the religions that feed this conflict ARE SIMPLISTIC and so is the news fed to the entire American public by compromised mass media.

The fact that Israel has nuclear weapons probably makes the Evangelicals wet on the bottom with anticipation of Rapture. It appears modern Christian America supports Netanyahu and his enterprise and opposes the less well fed, housed, educated and armed rag tag Palestinians with their false god. I hate to have to reinform you...all the gods are false, including the gods of oil and capital along with the ancient three. I always thought it was peculiar that the ancient three all claim to trace their faith to the SAME GOD at some point and have only redefined god incrementally over the centuries to such a degree they kill each other over the differences they have created.

A good atheist nation (which we are not) would withdraw all support from all sides in this conflict, so there is more that should be done...like withdraw recognition of Israel. It is a tiny area and is not worth the trouble it has been to us. I should not rate even one F-16 and definitely not 200 nuclear bombs in violation of the Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty, which IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE FOR ANYBODY BUT IRAN. Talk about this conflict is so skewed by so many different interests all of which are purely speculative. We never stop and consider all the human beings that continue to languish in the backwardness because we support Israel. Some of them live in Israel and they too can have their homes and lands taken from them by force.

Granted some of these Arabs cut off heads. But we and Israel blow them off with Hellfire missiles. We need to understand that this area is pure liability for our country and perhaps the entire world and adopt a neutral language that only describes conditions on the ground and not speculation about either religion or oil.

I mostly agree, but I think it's important to recognize the human rights of the Palestinian people, including the right to remain in their ancestral homeland and participate in their government. Ignoring the on-going violation of their human rights doesn't improve anything.

 

[angelo]

Recognizing Palestine as a country is not the same thing as recognizing Hamas as a nice, friendly group of guys.

Not even close.

I see a problem with "recognizing Palestine." The problem is in determining just which Palestine. It does need to be recognized and it needs a lot of help it is not getting. I got jumped and blindsided for saying that some cultures are backward, even though some cultures truly have been frozen in their past for a long time. I was reminded of this the other day when Netanyahu spoke of a Jewish struggle to reestablish the homeland 2500 years long. So here we have a warrior who wants to be the David of the 21st century. In the face of this, how dare the Europeans recognize the Philistines or Israel?

Welcome to the arena. On this side, Israel which currently has a leg up, being supported in its land grabbing and ethnic cleansing by contributions from unwary world wide Jewry and the government of the United States. In the other corner, the current challenger for the last 70 years and former champ of the area for several thousand years...Palestine. To anybody without a beam in his eye, this conflict is absolutely and obscenely unnecessary and pointless. This understanding of the area should be obvious to anybody who is free of either of these narcissistic religions. Unfortunately in the United States, there are Christian cults whose literature is heavy with involvement in the same general area as Israel or Palestine. They seem to believe that the end of days requires a serious Armageddon-like conflict in what they call the Holy Land to reify their prophetic book Revelations. How dare nations in Europe have any other idea about the area according to the Evangelicals? So here we are, neither Jew, nor Christian, nor Muslim and we are asked to take sides. We need to understand that THERE IS NO SIDE that represents us in the conflict. There is no side it is in our interest to help destroy the other side.

Our thinking has become so competitive, we maybe feel we have some stake in what happens in Palestine. Perhaps we do, but our only reasonable approach is to always support only peace and a lessening of the grip of religion on the area. Our bombing of so many ME cities looks a lot like Armageddon to the Evangelicals and this might have something to do with their desire to see their holy text and prophecy proven true. This shouldn't interest us and in fact we should be opposing this mindset. This may sound simplistic, but then the religions that feed this conflict ARE SIMPLISTIC and so is the news fed to the entire American public by compromised mass media.

The fact that Israel has nuclear weapons probably makes the Evangelicals wet on the bottom with anticipation of Rapture. It appears modern Christian America supports Netanyahu and his enterprise and opposes the less well fed, housed, educated and armed rag tag Palestinians with their false god. I hate to have to reinform you...all the gods are false, including the gods of oil and capital along with the ancient three. I always thought it was peculiar that the ancient three all claim to trace their faith to the SAME GOD at some point and have only redefined god incrementally over the centuries to such a degree they kill each other over the differences they have created.

A good atheist nation (which we are not) would withdraw all support from all sides in this conflict, so there is more that should be done...like withdraw recognition of Israel. It is a tiny area and is not worth the trouble it has been to us. I should not rate even one F-16 and definitely not 200 nuclear bombs in violation of the Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty, which IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE FOR ANYBODY BUT IRAN. Talk about this conflict is so skewed by so many different interests all of which are purely speculative. We never stop and consider all the human beings that continue to languish in the backwardness because we support Israel. Some of them live in Israel and they too can have their homes and lands taken from them by force.

Granted some of these Arabs cut off heads. But we and Israel blow them off with Hellfire missiles. We need to understand that this area is pure liability for our country and perhaps the entire world and adopt a neutral language that only describes conditions on the ground and not speculation about either religion or oil.

That's anti Semetic drivel and you know it! So sacrifice 8 million people so the tiny bit of land can be handed to the Palestinians who only came on to the scene shouting anti Jewish slogans after 1947, before that they were quite willing to live and let live. The Jews can trace their 4000 year history in that land. Last I checked the Palestinians are relatively late comers. The state of Palestine is in Jordan.

 

[Arctish]

The Jews can trace their 4000 year history in that land. Last I checked the Palestinians are relatively late comers.

The Palestinians are the indigenous semitic population that has been living in that part of the world for the past 10,000-12,000 years. Their religious affiliations have nothing to do with their ancestral ties to the region. And check out figure 2. The Palestinians are right in the middle of the Jewish gene pool. There's a reason for that. Can you guess what it is?

 

[angelo]

From your link.............Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1). Today, Jews belong to several communities that can be classified according to the location where each community developed. Among others, these include the Middle Eastern communities of former Babylonia and Palestine, the Jewish communities of North Africa and the Mediterranean Basin, and Ashkenazi communities of central and eastern Europe. The history of the Jewish Diaspora—the numerous migrations of Jewish populations and their subsequent residence in various countries in Europe, North Africa, and West Asia—has resulted in a complex set of genetic relationships among Jewish populations and their non-Jewish neighbors. Several studies have attempted to describe these genetic relationships and to unravel the numerous evolutionary factors that have come into play during the Diaspora (2–11). Some of the key arguments in the literature concern the relative contributions of common ancestry, genetic drift, natural selection, and admixture leading to the observed similarities and differences among Jewish and non-Jewish communities.

 

[Arctish]

From your link.............Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1). Today, Jews belong to several communities that can be classified according to the location where each community developed. Among others, these include the Middle Eastern communities of former Babylonia and Palestine, the Jewish communities of North Africa and the Mediterranean Basin, and Ashkenazi communities of central and eastern Europe. The history of the Jewish Diaspora—the numerous migrations of Jewish populations and their subsequent residence in various countries in Europe, North Africa, and West Asia—has resulted in a complex set of genetic relationships among Jewish populations and their non-Jewish neighbors. Several studies have attempted to describe these genetic relationships and to unravel the numerous evolutionary factors that have come into play during the Diaspora (2–11). Some of the key arguments in the literature concern the relative contributions of common ancestry, genetic drift, natural selection, and admixture leading to the observed similarities and differences among Jewish and non-Jewish communities.

And your point is..... what?

Jews are part of the larger population that has been living in that part of the world for thousands of years. Some of the oldest continuously occupied cities in the world are in the West Bank. Jericho has been continuously inhabited for ~11,000 years, and the people living there have been called Palestinians since the days of the Roman Empire. Calling them newcomers is absurd.

 

[angelo]

You're asking what my point is, I ask you what your point is! You are saying then that both sides have a right to the disputed land. Then why do you want to see one side be a victim to a genocide? And if it did happen, what makes you think it will lead to peace there when there would still be open warfare between Sunni and Shite? The problem is right there in the koran. The Jew hatred started while the paedophile prophet Muhammad was still alive. The Jews loved life and would do anything to have life while the islamics loved death, they couldn't understand that life meant more than to die in the name of allah to the Jews and xtians and other infidels.

At Camp David accord under the Clinton administration , the then Israeli pm Barak offered the Yassar Arafat 95% of his demands including Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital, and all of Judea, Samaria. It wasn't Barak who walked away from that offer, it was Arafat, who repaid that offer upon his return started an infidata that was responsible for thousands of deaths on both sides. Palestinians could've had their state years ago had they so chosen. But The famous "Verse of the sword"[Sura 9:5] considered the final word on Jihad instructs muslims to attack and kill non-muslims and also enjoin war against unbelievers.