Fauci Should Be In Prison - Senator Rand Paul

[JohnG]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

“Just following the science”, lol.

The only fools here are people who think admitting being wrong is an error. Also, what specifically have they "admitted" to being wrong about?

I'm curious as well what scientists "admitted" being wrong about.

 

[JohnG]

Some are, some are paid by universities, private industry, different govts…when the majority paint a similar picture, you can start to feel confidence in their data.

Universities are rarely pay their own money and overall as an entity receive government money, and private money is even worse than government in terms of modifying recipient's behaviour.

So no science can be trusted by any measure. OK.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

“Just following the science”, lol.

The only fools here are people who think admitting being wrong is an error. Also, what specifically have they "admitted" to being wrong about?

I'm curious as well what scientists "admitted" being wrong about.

The big one was water droplets / aerosols and the distance they could travel. There was some tunnel vision until someone made notice of it.

The rest is generally a bunch of people claiming Fauci et al made specific definitive claims* and alt-righter saying they weren't 100% true**. Then there is usually an occassional bureaucrat or medical bureaucrat that went over the line with the definitiveness of a statement, but it was usually walked back by the CDC and FDA.

* - usually not actually a definitive claim
** - usually didn't understand claim or have the where with all to actually be able to challenge said claim even within their misunderstood context.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Some are, some are paid by universities, private industry, different govts…when the majority paint a similar picture, you can start to feel confidence in their data.

Universities are rarely pay their own money and overall as an entity receive government money, and private money is even worse than government in terms of modifying recipient's behaviour.

So no science can be trusted by any measure. OK.

Must be hell. Can't drive across bridges, operate a car, flush a toilet, etc. Is the toilet flushing thing why Russians use shitholes to crap?

 

[JohnG]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

“Just following the science”, lol.

The only fools here are people who think admitting being wrong is an error. Also, what specifically have they "admitted" to being wrong about?

I'm curious as well what scientists "admitted" being wrong about.

The big one was water droplets / aerosols and the distance they could travel. There was some tunnel vision until someone made notice of it.

The rest is generally a bunch of people claiming Fauci et al made specific definitive claims* and alt-righter saying they weren't 100% true**. Then there is usually an occassional bureaucrat or medical bureaucrat that went over the line with the definitiveness of a statement, but it was usually walked back by the CDC and FDA.

* - usually not actually a definitive claim
** - usually didn't understand claim or have the where with all to actually be able to challenge said claim even within their misunderstood context.

I guess I see using the best available data differently than admitting they were wrong. They also didn't expect it to mutate as fast as it did.

I agree as well that there were some pretty loose statements made by talking heads - I had my head buried in virology podcasts for most of it. They were pretty scientific about the whole thing and when pressed to speculate most of them were pretty much dead on with how it would all play out. I don't get info from FB, Tik Tok, Trump or J Rogan so I missed all that fun stuff.

One thing they didn't foresee early on was the anti-vax insanity and the avalanche of dissinfo. Also the political posturing by those like R Paul, completely disregarding people's safety in order to score some points.

 

[TomC]

One thing they didn't foresee early on was the anti-vax insanity and the avalanche of dissinfo. Also the political posturing by those like R Paul, completely disregarding people's safety in order to score some points.

Totally this.
It's why I made my comment about the lying politicians like Rand Paul.
The cause of the disaster was Trump's attempts to mitigate the political problems he caused instead of mitigate the health and economic problems. People like Paul are blaming the messenger, even years later when the information is available.
Because the truth remains politically inexpedient for people with his ideology.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is interesting. I remember things kind of going to schedule, but I surf with a higher intelligence crowd. PhD in biology in the family, FiL is an awesome doctor. We were talking Nov. '20 and the consensus was we'd be lucky if things were backish to normal by Nov. '21. The initial vaccine plummeted new cases, until Gamma (Delta?) I think, and it went from probably stopping getting it to not likely getting as sick or dying from it. Every statement Fauci made publicly was crafted specifically, and for me, I got that. Then you have other people thinking he was saying something else entirely.

And now we've got these people that have this completely different history of what happened and why that is nearly all fictional or poorly understood.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One thing they didn't foresee early on was the anti-vax insanity and the avalanche of dissinfo. Also the political posturing by those like R Paul, completely disregarding people's safety in order to score some points.

Totally this.
It's why I made my comment about the lying politicians like Rand Paul.
The cause of the disaster was Trump's attempts to mitigate the political problems he caused instead of mitigate the health and economic problems. People like Paul are blaming the messenger, even years later when the information is available.

It was a bit surreal how he tried to play down the pandemic for... personal image issues. It was something he didn't have to do. The really odd thing was on one hand he did put the vaccine effort into effect and would act like the virus was a problem, but then he'd talk out of the other side of his mouth on the issue too. And then the wackos on the right had an orgy with the wackos on the left... and before we knew it, a Volunteer Firefighter was asking people their weight so he could give them the proper dosage of horse dewormer to protect themselves from the virus.

It really was a lesson in, "We haven't come that far at all, have we. "

 

[JohnG]

One thing they didn't foresee early on was the anti-vax insanity and the avalanche of dissinfo. Also the political posturing by those like R Paul, completely disregarding people's safety in order to score some points.

Totally this.
It's why I made my comment about the lying politicians like Rand Paul.
The cause of the disaster was Trump's attempts to mitigate the political problems he caused instead of mitigate the health and economic problems. People like Paul are blaming the messenger, even years later when the information is available.

It was a bit surreal how he tried to play down the pandemic for... personal image issues. It was something he didn't have to do. The really odd thing was on one hand he did put the vaccine effort into effect and would act like the virus was a problem, but then he'd talk out of the other side of his mouth on the issue too. And then the wackos on the right had an orgy with the wackos on the left... and before we knew it, a Volunteer Firefighter was asking people their weight so he could give them the proper dosage of horse dewormer to protect themselves from the virus.

It really was a lesson in, "We haven't come that far at all, have we. "

Surreal is the right word. It's gotten worse since then too. Imagine if the mortality rate was a bit higher? It easily could have been.

 

[Playball40]

In the meantime, people like Rand Paul, beneficiary of first world living standards and not quite old enough to remember the sheer terror parents felt when there was a polio diagnosis somewhere near, wants the rest of us to forego first world medical science and take our chances like those in the third world.

A-fucking-men! And there are plenty of idiots like Rand Paul around, unfortunately.

In positions of power too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I meant to add, the other aspect that made it even more surreal was the bizarre dichotomy of those who thought the virus was a hoax and government was over-reaching because evil... all the while blaming the Chinese for gain of function and releasing this virus from their lab. Going from there is no threat (never mind the death toll) to it is all the Chinese's fault! And that leap could happen in a paragraph or less.

 

[barbos]

Some are, some are paid by universities, private industry, different govts…when the majority paint a similar picture, you can start to feel confidence in their data.

Universities are rarely pay their own money and overall as an entity receive government money, and private money is even worse than government in terms of modifying recipient's behaviour.

So no science can be trusted by any measure. OK.

I did not say that.

 

[ZiprHead]

Some are, some are paid by universities, private industry, different govts…when the majority paint a similar picture, you can start to feel confidence in their data.

Universities are rarely pay their own money and overall as an entity receive government money, and private money is even worse than government in terms of modifying recipient's behaviour.

So no science can be trusted by any measure. OK.

I did not say that.

You do not say a lot of things, like invading Ukraine is illegal and uncalled for.

 

[barbos]

Some are, some are paid by universities, private industry, different govts…when the majority paint a similar picture, you can start to feel confidence in their data.

Universities are rarely pay their own money and overall as an entity receive government money, and private money is even worse than government in terms of modifying recipient's behaviour.

So no science can be trusted by any measure. OK.

I did not say that.

You do not say a lot of things, like invading Ukraine is illegal and uncalled for.

US invasions are illegal most of the time, so Ukraine invasion is no different in that regard.

 

[ZiprHead]

Some are, some are paid by universities, private industry, different govts…when the majority paint a similar picture, you can start to feel confidence in their data.

Universities are rarely pay their own money and overall as an entity receive government money, and private money is even worse than government in terms of modifying recipient's behaviour.

So no science can be trusted by any measure. OK.

I did not say that.

You do not say a lot of things, like invading Ukraine is illegal and uncalled for.

US invasions are illegal most of the time, so Ukraine invasion is no different in that regard.

Do two wrongs make a right in your world?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm not at all sure whether the USA was involved in helping develop bioweapons in China.
Very likely we were.
We have a long history of "improving" military technology. From Gatlings guns in the 19th century to nukes in the 20th, it's about time we pushed the envelope on mass killings.
Tom

Why in the world would we work with an enemy in weapons research???? Especially WMD? This makes no sense at all.

It wouldn't be a new thing. Remember the Iran-Contra thing? People do nonsensical things all the time.
And China is not an enemy, at least not yet. Adversary maybe, but that's not the same.

I could easily see US money helping fund research. Especially since it would give us access to results immediately. It's also true that such research could be weaponized, but that doesn't mean it was. Or, at least, that wasn't the intention.
Tom

Yeah, scientific research, yes. Weapons research, no. The idea of Covid as a bioweapon is insane, anyway.

I'm pretty sure we did fund some SARS research--we had the detailed results, sufficient to repurpose it as Covid vaccine immediately. And it turned out to be a very good thing that we had done that.

 

[TomC]

Yeah, scientific research, yes. Weapons research, no. The idea of Covid as a bioweapon is insane, anyway

Yeppers.
This notion is clearly a result of Trump's desperate attempts to CYA. Flip flopping between "Chinese bioweapons" to "no worse than a cold", idiocy like that.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A good warhead design does not go critical from a single point initiation of the explosives.

NO warhead design does.

If it was so easy to make plutonium go critical, that you could do so by mistake, the Manhattan Project would have lasted a couple of months and cost a few thousand dollars.

The ONLY way to set of a nuke by mistake would be somehow to actuate the triggering mechanism by mistake, on an intact, undamaged, and fully armed warhead.

Preventing this from happening accidentally is trivially easy. The hard part is getting the damn thing to go critical when you actually want it to, which is why the Manhattan Project took so long that the war in Europe was over before they had a bomb; Cost more than any prior weapons reseach program (buy FAR); And still had to waste a large fraction of the world's entire supply of hugely expensive Pu on a test firing, because the smartest men on Earth weren't sure that it could be done - the timings on the conventional explosives had to be accurate to the nanosecond, which at the time was a higher precision than had ever been attempted.

If you could design a nuke that could be accidentally triggered, without using it's own intact and fully functional triggering mechanism, the world would be a very different place (and Berlin would have been a radioactive crater in 1944).

Getting plutonium to go critical is easy. Just pour enough in a container, it will go off. Big pop, bright blue flash, deadly flash of neutrons. A nearby witness was knocked down, but able to get back up and run out of the building, he died of the radiation, not from physical injuries.

What is intricate is getting it way, way past the critical point fast enough that it doesn't destroy itself before full assembly is reached. A warhead that is close to a critical mass when sitting there certainly can go critical from a single point initiation of the detonator.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Orbital mechanics? You studied how to fix broken orbits?

Don't be daft. An orbital mechanic is just a regular mechanic working on the ISS.

The commute's a bitch.

isn't there a tesla floating around up there that needs to be maintained?

It's in solar orbit, not Earth orbit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"so called scientists"? They're actual fucking scientists. When it comes to an epidemic I will tend to put my trust in the "so called" experts who dedicate their life to studying something like epidemics rather

More fool you considering the “so called scientists” have admitted they were wrong.

“Just following the science”, lol.

The only fools here are people who think admitting being wrong is an error. Also, what specifically have they "admitted" to being wrong about?

I'm curious as well what scientists "admitted" being wrong about.

The big one was water droplets / aerosols and the distance they could travel. There was some tunnel vision until someone made notice of it.

The rest is generally a bunch of people claiming Fauci et al made specific definitive claims* and alt-righter saying they weren't 100% true**. Then there is usually an occassional bureaucrat or medical bureaucrat that went over the line with the definitiveness of a statement, but it was usually walked back by the CDC and FDA.

* - usually not actually a definitive claim
** - usually didn't understand claim or have the where with all to actually be able to challenge said claim even within their misunderstood context.

I guess I see using the best available data differently than admitting they were wrong. They also didn't expect it to mutate as fast as it did.

I agree as well that there were some pretty loose statements made by talking heads - I had my head buried in virology podcasts for most of it. They were pretty scientific about the whole thing and when pressed to speculate most of them were pretty much dead on with how it would all play out. I don't get info from FB, Tik Tok, Trump or J Rogan so I missed all that fun stuff.

One thing they didn't foresee early on was the anti-vax insanity and the avalanche of dissinfo. Also the political posturing by those like R Paul, completely disregarding people's safety in order to score some points.

Yup, the problem was as usual what happens when reporters try to distill complex topics they don't understand into a few sentences.