Ferguson Live Feed

[ksen]

Can't we all just get along? We are all people.

It's easy to say that as a white person. Not so easy when you're a non-white person and have to deal day in day out institutional racism that is still in effect.

The saying "Check your privilege" exists for a reason.

 

[RavenSky]

One major difference is that the shooter is a police officer. If he wasn't there would likely have been an indictment.

If someone gives you a beating, tries to steal your gun, and manages to fire a couple of shots from your gun in the struggle (with the bullets luckily missing you), with witnesses attesting to these facts and the fact that the guy turned around and charged you again, there may very well not be. If those were the facts or seemed to be the facts, why would you indict someone in that situation?

Good grief, what alternative world are you reporting from

 

[RavenSky]

Other witnesses said his hands were up.

Actually, virtually every witness said he had his hands up... just not all agreed that the gesture signified surrender. Most stated that his hands were around shoulder height, which seems to me to be why so many who weren't even there can dismiss it and deny any appearance of surrender.

All I keep hearing on Faux News and in social media is the screeching claim that Michael Brown did not have his hands up and that he was "charging" Officer Wilson - this despite the fact that virtually all witnesses said he DID have his hands up, and all but 3 said he did NOT "charge" at Officer Wilson.

This history of this case is already being re-written to blame the victim (just like so many others before it), and those doing the blaming with never ever ever admit they are repeating out-and-out falsehoods.

All this crap about Michael Brown being a "thug" or a "robber" or even just less than perfect, and therefore not a fitting symbol for the current protests against police brutality, reminds me of how/why Rosa Parks is the person we best remember in the Montgomery Bus Boycott, and not Claudette Colvin or Mary Louise Smith

A year after the WPC’s meeting with Mayor Gayle, a 15-year-old named Claudette Colvin was arrested for challenging segregation on a Montgomery bus. Seven months later, 18-year-old Mary Louise Smith was arrested for refusing to yield her seat to a white passenger. Neither arrest, however, mobilized Montgomery’s black community like that of Rosa Parks later that year.

King recalled in his memoir that ‘‘Mrs. Parks was ideal for the role assigned to her by history,’’ and because ‘‘her character was impeccable and her dedication deep-rooted’’ she was ‘‘one of the most respected people in the Negro community’’

 

[George S]

Can't we all just get along? We are all people.

It's easy to say that as a white person. Not so easy when you're a non-white person and have to deal day in day out institutional racism that is still in effect.

The saying "Check your privilege" exists for a reason.

Ah, yes, family history. My mother was called "That Jewish Girl" in a small town where there was exactly one family with Jewish heritage. I, myself, have had one case of racism, myself -- I disclosed that my grandfather was born Jewish, but he married a Baptist and converted. Immediately he left my porch (we had been drinking beer and watching our 5-year old girls play) and refused to allow his child to play with mine ever again.

You're right, though. One incident was quite hurtful. But I don't wear my heritage on my face. For those who do, oh my. No need to mention "black" heritage, or in a prior era Italian or Irish heritage, when your features tell the tale.

We are endowed by genetics with the ability to categorize by group. To recognize close relatives as close relatives and to favor them -- kin selection. Quite automatically we group into us and them. It is natural to identify with kin. Black brothers and sisters. White brothers and sisters. Daughters of the American Revolution.

It is as unnatural as a tenor singing soprano to fight this tendency. It can be done but it is fighting biology. We are a tribal species. Do unto others within the tribe as you would be done by. Distrust outsiders. This is biology.

The world will be a better place when tribalism is limited to warriors engaged in non-fatal combat: sports.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Jon Stewart Does It Again

 

[laughing dog]

I'm starting to notice a pattern. The social justice warriors need to know the colors of the skins involved in any event before they can formulate an opinion on the matter.

I've noticed another pattern - the meme of "social justice warrior" crops up whenever someone has nothing relevant to add.

 

[RavenSky]

Now what if a black cop killed an unarmed white teenager under very questionable circumstances, and was never investigated. What would supporters of various police shootings say? Would racism or authoritarianism prove to be the stronger basis for which way they would swing?

It did happen, in a way. But because the cop was black and the victim white, the social justice warriors apparently didn't care much about it. http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/washington_times_contrasts_med.html

not really

"When an officer exited the station to investigate, he was confronted by a muscular, nude man who was acting erratically," Ayers said. "The man repeatedly rushed toward the officer and verbally challenged the officer in a fighting stance."

The officer drew his gun and ordered Collar to stop, Ayers said.

"The officer retreated numerous times in an attempt to calm the situation," Ayers said. "The individual continued to press toward the officer in a threatening manner."

Collar kneeled for a brief moment before rising and then rushing and chasing the retreating officer, Ayers said.

http://blog.al.com/live/2012/10/university_of_south_alabama_of_1.html

Note the bolded - that is a huge difference. It also doesn't sound like they left this guy's dead body laying out uncovered for hours either.

That said, the article does clearly reference people who think the police acted with undue force.

 

[doubtingt]

All the testimony and evidence was released to the public.

Sure, this time.

But that's not normal procedure.

The Grand jury are members of the public. Thus, even when the transcripts are not released, using a Grand Jury to demonstrate the lack of evidence to warrant formal charges and a trial is far more transparent than a prosecutor deciding on their own that there are no grounds for criminal charges.

 

[Sabine Grant]

It's easy to say that as a white person. Not so easy when you're a non-white person and have to deal day in day out institutional racism that is still in effect.

The saying "Check your privilege" exists for a reason.

Ah, yes, family history. My mother was called "That Jewish Girl" in a small town where there was exactly one family with Jewish heritage. I, myself, have had one case of racism, myself -- I disclosed that my grandfather was born Jewish, but he married a Baptist and converted. Immediately he left my porch (we had been drinking beer and watching our 5-year old girls play) and refused to allow his child to play with mine ever again.

You're right, though. One incident was quite hurtful. But I don't wear my heritage on my face. For those who do, oh my. No need to mention "black" heritage, or in a prior era Italian or Irish heritage, when your features tell the tale.

We are endowed by genetics with the ability to categorize by group. To recognize close relatives as close relatives and to favor them -- kin selection. Quite automatically we group into us and them. It is natural to identify with kin. Black brothers and sisters. White brothers and sisters. Daughters of the American Revolution.

It is as unnatural as a tenor singing soprano to fight this tendency. It can be done but it is fighting biology. We are a tribal species. Do unto others within the tribe as you would be done by. Distrust outsiders. This is biology.

The world will be a better place when tribalism is limited to warriors engaged in non-fatal combat: sports.

Can't we all just get along?

I tend to agree with you George regarding the influence exercised by tribalism. As you already know I am a strong multi culturalist because it has facilitated my being able to build bridges with groups outside of my own and reach the point of being a learner in the midst of other groups while having the willingness to receive from them as a "gift" whichever positive traits exhibited within their culture. Rather than supporting any social construct where a cultural and ethnic majority group expects other groups (usually minorities) to be assimilated into their own. It creates a Borg like system. "resistance being futile".

For me George, it was not so much my Jewish heritage or any other which became a target of any prejudicial thinking.(though at the time of the "freedom Fries" absurd frenzy, my being identified as French would result in gratuitously aggressive and provoking comments). It is mostly my determination to go against the flow of negative stereotyping targeting various minority groups whether it be in the US or my country. I have lived in neighborhoods in the US when my children were still young where our household stuck out like a sore thumb because we were not compliant with the local racial segregation. If not institutionalized any longer, such racial segregation was still part of how the local population behaved towards each other. Eyebrows were raised because my children played with Black kids and they were always included as their guests in any kids parties we held in our homes.

The local Church we were members of if they thought it was a great idea to start a program of outreach in the near by subsidized housings units, the Elders and Pastor (all white men) cautioned me about being careful to "venture" in the units where Black families lived. It was not said straight forward, but it was clear to me that the message was " we do not really want those people here in our Church".

There is an even more pronounced tribalism among religious groups.

All getting along? IMO folks who have benefited of a multi cultural nurturing (especially when cultivated during their childhood) will be more inclined to want to get along than those who were confined to one single culture. They have had ample exposure to diversity. They have learned from that exposure and have known for a long time to always look for what is beneficial in the midst of those different groups. They have taken the humble position of being learners from those different groups rather than seeing the world through their own very narrow cultural/ethnic model which they so often assume can only be superior to every other group's ethnic/cultural model.

Once more life experiences starting from childhood and up and how it shapes the blue prints of the adult we will be. How much are we willing to separate ourselves or recover from a series of bad experiences we have had with members of one cultural/ethnic group? How much are we willing to recognize that such recovery will allow us to place the individuality of each fellow human being above the perceived or assumed flaws of an entire group?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Actually, virtually every witness said he had his hands up... just not all agreed that the gesture signified surrender. Most stated that his hands were around shoulder height, which seems to me to be why so many who weren't even there can dismiss it and deny any appearance of surrender.

All I keep hearing on Faux News and in social media is the screeching claim that Michael Brown did not have his hands up and that he was "charging" Officer Wilson - this despite the fact that virtually all witnesses said he DID have his hands up, and all but 3 said he did NOT "charge" at Officer Wilson.

What "most" of the witnesses say is of no importance at all. What the credible witnesses (the ones not making claims clearly contrary to fact and not self-contradictory) say matters.

This history of this case is already being re-written to blame the victim (just like so many others before it), and those doing the blaming with never ever ever admit they are repeating out-and-out falsehoods.

Look at the quotes that ApostateAbe posted above--there already was rewriting of history in the testimony. We aren't trying to rewrite history, we are trying to address the earlier rewriting.

All this crap about Michael Brown being a "thug" or a "robber" or even just less than perfect, and therefore not a fitting symbol for the current protests against police brutality, reminds me of how/why Rosa Parks is the person we best remember in the Montgomery Bus Boycott, and not Claudette Colvin or Mary Louise Smith

And have you stopped beating your husband yet?

(You're assuming this is a case of police brutality.)

 

[Shadowy Man]

Usually with physical evidence or non-bias corroborating testimony. Hence, the lack of indictment. Just pointing out there is no disagreement that Brown stole the cigarellos before the incident.

Do you consider Officer Wilson's testimony to be without bias?

 

[Trausti]

Usually with physical evidence or non-bias corroborating testimony. Hence, the lack of indictment. Just pointing out there is no disagreement that Brown stole the cigarellos before the incident.

Do you consider Officer Wilson's testimony to be without bias?

Of course not. That's why I defined it as corroborating testimony. Wilson has a self-interest, clearly. The presumed chief witness for the prosecution, Johnson, also had obvious motive and bias to give testimony favorable to his friend. So the question is whether their disparate testimonies can be verified by other evidence. The physical evidence, witness testimony, and other evidence (like the radio traffic log) backed up Wilson. What motive or bias would any witness have to offer testimony supportive of Wilson's version of events?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...r-charging-michael-brown-stepfather/19777847/

if black people would just go to work like regular people this whole mess would be over.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...r-charging-michael-brown-stepfather/19777847/

if black people would just go to work like regular people this whole mess would be over.

Police are investigating Michael Brown's stepfather for his actions in the hours after a grand jury determined that the officer who fatally shot Brown would not be charged, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Tuesday.


Perfect way to diffuse the situation! Go after an angry father. Keep it klassy St Louis.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm starting to notice a pattern. The social justice warriors need to know the colors of the skins involved in any event before they can formulate an opinion on the matter.

Odd, the issue never came to my mind about the 12 year old shot and killed in Cleveland. I actually still don't know the race of the shooting officer.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you consider Officer Wilson's testimony to be without bias?

Of course not.

Then why is he testifying at a Grand Jury investigating the potential for charges against him?

The presumed chief witness for the prosecution, Johnson, also had obvious motive and bias to give testimony favorable to his friend.

Which would be addressed in a trial.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

This is how we roll on another forum:

The social justice warriors
need to know
the colors of the skins involved

The social justice warriors
need to know
the colors of the skins involved


The social justice warriors
need to know
the colors of the skins involved



The Social Justice Warriors
need to know
the colors of the skins involved
​

 

[Nexus]

Still, I think I read that the police unions were against the cameras. That suggests to me that they are a bad idea, but, I dunno.

Interesting, to me it suggests that the way police operate is a bad idea and they don't want that exposed.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Still, I think I read that the police unions were against the cameras. That suggests to me that they are a bad idea, but, I dunno.

Interesting, to me it suggests that the way police operate is a bad idea and they don't want that exposed.

How do you figure that?

 

[Angry Floof]

Interesting, to me it suggests that the way police operate is a bad idea and they don't want that exposed.

How do you figure that?

I don't know about Nexus, but if I were a cop I'd want the cameras. No one can claim brutality if there is a clear video of the incident. Also, in places where the cameras have been implemented, instances of police brutality dropped AND complaints against police dropped considerably. If you want I'll post some links for you when I get back from picking up the wee man from school.