First they came for the anti-fascists

[dismal]

Not only do I advocate and defend violence in defence of civilisation from fascism; I am also highly criticical and suspicious of those who claim that it is not a laudable and moral thing to do.

View attachment 22840

Tip for the slow:

No one objects to fighting the actual Nazis.

What people do object to is punching the head of the leader of the college Republicans because you call him a Nazi.

So exactly what are the minimum criteria YOU would use to identify someone as a fascist?

You keep telling us who isn't a nazi. But you never tell us how to identify someone who is. How do you propose we do that? How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

How, for that matter, can you be confident that it's not currently happening?

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/

noun
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
adjective
1.
of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.

I tend to try to use words as they are defined in the dictionary. I find it makes communication easier.

 

[PyramidHead]

Obama was a terrible President. Congrats, you're up to speed! Now, are you more interested in talking about why the culmination of behavior that was normalized since 2008 (and is now reaching a fever pitch) reveals the total lack of institutional barriers to fascism in our government--and therefore proves the necessity of popular movements like antifas--or are you more interested in owning your fellow libs by pointing out hypocrisy? It's like, it never goes all the way with you. You get that something is bad, you see that both Democrats and Republicans do it, you see that nobody stops either of them, but your mind recoils at the undiscovered territory that lies beyond "gotcha lib, Obama did that too!" It's why you're selectively responding to everyone in the thread who tries to defend Obama except for me, who doesn't. You have no reply to a position that doesn't correspond to the red tie vs. blue tie narrative.

I think his point was that you didn't see leftists running around screaming, "Obama is a Nazi!" or "Black man bad!" or "Obama is a racist because he set a record for deportations!" the way they do now with Trump in office.

The point that both of you are making is that actual leftists, who WERE critical of Obama for exactly those reasons and are consistently critical of Trump for the same reasons and more, have had virtually no voice in American politics. The people who turned a blind eye to Obama's deportations and imprisonment of immigrants are liberals, not leftists. You may now pick up the chunks of your cranium off the floor, as I'm fairly certain that commonplace distinction has never been explained to you before: liberals. are. not. leftists.

 

[PyramidHead]

I tend to try to use words as they are defined in the dictionary. I find it makes communication easier.

It also absolves you of needing to have moral principles or a conscience upon which they would have been founded. Need to know if someone in society is a bad actor with destructive intent who should be forcibly resisted? Just check his armband! They wear those things for our convenience. Want to know if someone's a fascist? Look at a calendar! After the early 20th century, nothing that could ever be construed as fascism or Nazism could possibly exist, since the bad wizard was defeated by the good wizard at Mordor. Thanks to the US of A (anddefinitelynotthesovietunion), the only fascist movement that will ever be attempted by humans was permanently destroyed, so reeeelllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[bilby]

So exactly what are the minimum criteria YOU would use to identify someone as a fascist?

You keep telling us who isn't a nazi. But you never tell us how to identify someone who is. How do you propose we do that? How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

How, for that matter, can you be confident that it's not currently happening?

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/

noun
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
adjective
1.
of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.

I tend to try to use words as they are defined in the dictionary. I find it makes communication easier.

That's nice, but it doesn't address the main questions:

How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

How, for that matter, can you be confident that it's not currently happening?

The dictionary isn't sufficient to answer these questions.

Unless you hold the rather overconfident and bizarre opinion that fascism was completely and eternally vanquished in 1945 with the destruction of European fascist and national socialist dictatorships.

 

[ZiprHead]

So exactly what are the minimum criteria YOU would use to identify someone as a fascist?

You keep telling us who isn't a nazi. But you never tell us how to identify someone who is. How do you propose we do that? How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

How, for that matter, can you be confident that it's not currently happening?

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/

noun
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
adjective
1.
of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.

I tend to try to use words as they are defined in the dictionary. I find it makes communication easier.

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:

fascist
NOUN
1An advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.

‘he went to Spain to fight against the fascists’
‘Eastern European fascists could win power only with support from the Nazis’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1A person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
‘thousands of fascists and nationalists marched in the capital’
1.2A person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.
‘I'm a bit of a spelling fascist, but still have blind spots over words like ‘privilege’ or ‘separate’’
‘if I were being a culinary fascist, I would possibly moan about the overdone cooked tomatoes’
(*I hate brown/black/Jewish people)

*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

 

[dismal]

How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

I find it takes no special effort from me.

How, for that matter, can you be confident that it's not currently happening?

Most of the people I see routinely trying to suppress speech and the opposition are on the left. I suppose I worry about them turning us into the next Venezuela or Cuba, but hey that wouldn't be "fascism" because it's leftist totalitarianism.

Unless you hold the rather overconfident and bizarre opinion that fascism was completely and eternally vanquished in 1945 with the destruction of European fascist and national socialist dictatorships.

Completely vanquished, no. A practical threat today, no.

Anti-fascism used to justify illiberal acts, yes.

 

[dismal]

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/

noun
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
adjective
1.
of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.

I tend to try to use words as they are defined in the dictionary. I find it makes communication easier.

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:

fascist
NOUN
1An advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.

‘he went to Spain to fight against the fascists’
‘Eastern European fascists could win power only with support from the Nazis’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1A person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
‘thousands of fascists and nationalists marched in the capital’
1.2A person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.
‘I'm a bit of a spelling fascist, but still have blind spots over words like ‘privilege’ or ‘separate’’
‘if I were being a culinary fascist, I would possibly moan about the overdone cooked tomatoes’
(*I hate brown/black/Jewish people)

*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I make it a point not to argue semantics with people who make up their own definitions of words. It's not productive (as the dictionary defines "productive").

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

By ensuring freedom of speech is protected. By clamping down on money in politics and corruption in politics. By not advocating for vigilante or mob violence. By refraining from and calling out the dehumanization of others (be it sexist, racist, or calling people "nazis" who aren't and then saying its ok to assault them). By making attempts to depolarize rather than further polarize the nation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Can you give me some guidelines of when its OK to set up camps?

It seems like earlier the bar was just camps. Now there are so many qualifiers.

For example, I can find reports from 2014 that suggest Obama was keeping 1200 immigrant children in a former Japanese internment camp (Fort Sill). I can see snopes rates Trumps claim that Obama built the cages that children are being kept in as "true".

Why exactly does this not get over the bar for "fascist"? Is it there some sort of rule that says the first 1200 children in a former Japanese internment camp are cool but the 1201th child makes it fascist?

What is consistently being overlooked by your side here is that Obama didn't really have a choice. He was faced with a bunch of minors--it would be illegal for CBP to have released them as there was no guardian to release them to.

His Flatulence is doing it even when there are guardians, his intent is punitive.

 

[ZiprHead]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:

fascist
NOUN
1An advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.

‘he went to Spain to fight against the fascists’
‘Eastern European fascists could win power only with support from the Nazis’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1A person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
‘thousands of fascists and nationalists marched in the capital’
1.2A person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.
‘I'm a bit of a spelling fascist, but still have blind spots over words like ‘privilege’ or ‘separate’’
‘if I were being a culinary fascist, I would possibly moan about the overdone cooked tomatoes’
(*I hate brown/black/Jewish people)

*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I make it a point not to argue semantics with people who make up their own definitions of words. It's not productive (as the dictionary defines "productive").

I wonder where you you got such narrow definitions. I've checked dictionary.com, I posted Oxford. I checked Merriam-Webster, MacMillan, and Cambridge. Non define those words so narrowly. Do you have a link?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:

fascist
NOUN
1An advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.

‘he went to Spain to fight against the fascists’
‘Eastern European fascists could win power only with support from the Nazis’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1A person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
‘thousands of fascists and nationalists marched in the capital’
1.2A person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.
‘I'm a bit of a spelling fascist, but still have blind spots over words like ‘privilege’ or ‘separate’’
‘if I were being a culinary fascist, I would possibly moan about the overdone cooked tomatoes’
(*I hate brown/black/Jewish people)

*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I make it a point not to argue semantics with people who make up their own definitions of words. It's not productive (as the dictionary defines "productive").

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Nazi

1: a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler

2. often not capitalized

a: one who espouses the beliefs and policies of the German Nazis : FASCIST

Dictionary.com:

1.a member of the National SocialistGerman Workers' Party, whichcontrolled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler andadvocated totalitarian government,territorial expansion, anti-Semitism,and Aryan supremacy, all theseleading directly to World War II and theHolocaust.

2. (often lowercase) a person elsewherewho holds similar views.

Therefore, someone who admires Hitler, wants the Jews to be killed off, wants a white ethnostate and similar can be called a Nazi, even if often times ppl don't capitalize it.

 

[Worldtraveller]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:


*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I make it a point not to argue semantics with people who make up their own definitions of words. It's not productive (as the dictionary defines "productive").

I wonder where you you got such narrow definitions. I've checked dictionary.com, I posted Oxford. I checked Merriam-Webster, MacMillan, and Cambridge. Non define those words so narrowly. Do you have a link?

I don't know why you all keep trying to engage dismal. He's clearly not the 'fair and partial' observer he keeps claiming. He's a partisan hack. The fact that he's on the same side of this as HL, and it doesn't give him pause, should be enough to just ignore him. It's not like he argues in good faith.

 

[dismal]

Can you give me some guidelines of when its OK to set up camps?

It seems like earlier the bar was just camps. Now there are so many qualifiers.

For example, I can find reports from 2014 that suggest Obama was keeping 1200 immigrant children in a former Japanese internment camp (Fort Sill). I can see snopes rates Trumps claim that Obama built the cages that children are being kept in as "true".

Why exactly does this not get over the bar for "fascist"? Is it there some sort of rule that says the first 1200 children in a former Japanese internment camp are cool but the 1201th child makes it fascist?

What is consistently being overlooked by your side here is that Obama didn't really have a choice. He was faced with a bunch of minors--it would be illegal for CBP to have released them as there was no guardian to release them to.

His Flatulence is doing it even when there are guardians, his intent is punitive.

Please save the fascist apologist for some right wing site.

Now you're on the list of people who get punched.

 

[dismal]

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/

noun
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
adjective
1.
of or concerning the Nazis or Nazism.

I tend to try to use words as they are defined in the dictionary. I find it makes communication easier.

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:

fascist
NOUN
1An advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.

‘he went to Spain to fight against the fascists’
‘Eastern European fascists could win power only with support from the Nazis’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1A person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
‘thousands of fascists and nationalists marched in the capital’
1.2A person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.
‘I'm a bit of a spelling fascist, but still have blind spots over words like ‘privilege’ or ‘separate’’
‘if I were being a culinary fascist, I would possibly moan about the overdone cooked tomatoes’
(*I hate brown/black/Jewish people)

*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I tried long and hard in the sense that I pulled up google and typed in the word. And I was not long and hard at the time cause google is not that kind of site.

 

[ZiprHead]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:

fascist
NOUN
1An advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.

‘he went to Spain to fight against the fascists’
‘Eastern European fascists could win power only with support from the Nazis’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1A person who is extremely right-wing or authoritarian.
‘thousands of fascists and nationalists marched in the capital’
1.2A person who is very intolerant or domineering in a particular area.
‘I'm a bit of a spelling fascist, but still have blind spots over words like ‘privilege’ or ‘separate’’
‘if I were being a culinary fascist, I would possibly moan about the overdone cooked tomatoes’
(*I hate brown/black/Jewish people)

*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I tried long and hard in the sense that I pulled up google and typed in the word. And I was not long and hard at the time cause google is not that kind of site.

Aah, so you didn't bother to hit the little arrow at the bottom that expanded on the definition.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
DEROGATORY
a person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
a person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.
"I learned to be more open and not such a Nazi in the studio"

Since it has now been proven you slacked off on your research, I'm sure you will do the right thing and adjust your understanding. of the definition.

Thank you.

 

[dismal]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:


*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I tried long and hard in the sense that I pulled up google and typed in the word. And I was not long and hard at the time cause google is not that kind of site.

Aah, so you didn't bother to hit the little arrow at the bottom that expanded on the definition.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
DEROGATORY
a person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
a person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.
"I learned to be more open and not such a Nazi in the studio"

Since it has now been proven you slacked off on your research, I'm sure you will do the right thing and adjust your understanding. of the definition.

Thank you.

You know the derogatory part, like when you call someone a "soup Nazi" or a "grammar Nazi" or say "I learned to be more open and not such a Nazi in the studio" is not supposed to be confused with an actual Nazi.

Most people are intelligent enough to pick that important difference up.

Like, George didn't punch the soup Nazi and claim he was saving the world from fascism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How would you go about preventing your nation from becoming a fascist hellhole, before it's too late to do anything about it?

By ensuring freedom of speech is protected. By clamping down on money in politics and corruption in politics. By not advocating for vigilante or mob violence. By refraining from and calling out the dehumanization of others (be it sexist, racist, or calling people "nazis" who aren't and then saying its ok to assault them). By making attempts to depolarize rather than further polarize the nation.

Moore-Coulter.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:


*my addition

Nazi
NOUNnazis
1historical A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More example sentences
1.1derogatory A person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2A person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.

I tried long and hard in the sense that I pulled up google and typed in the word. And I was not long and hard at the time cause google is not that kind of site.

Aah, so you didn't bother to hit the little arrow at the bottom that expanded on the definition.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
DEROGATORY
a person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
a person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.
"I learned to be more open and not such a Nazi in the studio"

Since it has now been proven you slacked off on your research, I'm sure you will do the right thing and adjust your understanding. of the definition.

Thank you.

It's worse than that. He claimed it was the dictionary definition, when it's just google. So not only did he, not click to read more of the definition, it wasn't a dictionary, and he didn't look around for other dictionaries. Now not only did you respond to him about his cherry-picked methodology, I also responded with other definitions from reputable sites, like dictionary.com and Merriam Webster, which dispute his claim. He chose to simply ignore that post and instead reply to yours and others' with dismal snark. But enough about dismal's irrational argument...

Let's consider the guy who drove the car that ran over Heather Heyer. I read that he admired Hitler, he shared many beliefs and policies, he was a white supremacist, and he was willing to kill people. Does it matter if we call him a Nazi (capitalized), a nazi (lower case) or a neo-Nazi?

Back to the thread topic, how would declaring antifa terrorists have stopped this from happening?

 

[dismal]

I suspect you searched long and hard for a dictionary to match your pitch, or you just cherry picked the definitions you liked.

Here's from the Oxford Dictionary.:


*my addition

I tried long and hard in the sense that I pulled up google and typed in the word. And I was not long and hard at the time cause google is not that kind of site.

Aah, so you didn't bother to hit the little arrow at the bottom that expanded on the definition.

Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Nazi; plural noun: Nazis
1.
HISTORICAL
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
DEROGATORY
a person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
a person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.
"I learned to be more open and not such a Nazi in the studio"

Since it has now been proven you slacked off on your research, I'm sure you will do the right thing and adjust your understanding. of the definition.

Thank you.

It's worse than that. He claimed it was the dictionary definition, when it's just google. So not only did he, not click to read more of the definition, it wasn't a dictionary, and he didn't look around for other dictionaries. Now not only did you respond to him about his cherry-picked methodology, I also responded with other definitions from reputable sites, like dictionary.com and Merriam Webster, which dispute his claim. He chose to simply ignore that post and instead reply to yours and others' with dismal snark. But enough about dismal's irrational argument...

Let's consider the guy who drove the car that ran over Heather Heyer. I read that he admired Hitler, he shared many beliefs and policies, he was a white supremacist, and he was willing to kill people. Does it matter if we call him a Nazi (capitalized), a nazi (lower case) or a neo-Nazi?

Back to the thread topic, how would declaring antifa terrorists have stopped this from happening?

Jeez, I didn't realize we had so many dictionary Nazis here.

Oh well, I guess they get punched.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Oh great, now the authorities are going to arrest me because dismal claims I am a Nazi punching member of antifa. Thanks dismal.