Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Derec]

You can see the man being held down unable to move, then fall silent, then go limp. What more information do you need?

We don't know what precipitated him being restrained. We do not even know the cause of death. Can't we wait for the autopsy and tox screen to be completed before we assign blame?

If your contention is that any resistance on the part of the suspect necessarily excuses any treatment from the cops then that needs no additional information.

Well any resistance necessitates some level of force by the police. We do not know how he resisted, so we cannot say for now whether the police acted appropriately.
And as I said, we do not know what caused his death. From the video, it does not appear that the knee compressed the suspect's trachea. He is heard speaking relatively normally, which is inconsistent with his airway being obstructed due to compression. So I would say most likely he died due to acute intoxication, likely by some licit substance such as meth or cocaine, and not really due to him being restrained in the manner we saw in the video.

How much of a shambles does someone’s moral center need to be to gleefully bleat about the potential overreaction of a hashtag in the face of a senseless and callous killing?

We do not know that he died as a result of what police did. We certainly do not know we acted "callously". As I said, all people like you need to form a conclusion is that the suspect was black.

Why don't we wait until the autopsy and tox screens are done first before "gleefully bleating" about how police killed an innocent black man "callously and senselessly"?

 

[TSwizzle]

We don't know what precipitated him being restrained. We do not even know the cause of death. Can't we wait for the autopsy and tox screen to be completed before we assign blame?

Even if the autopsy shows this man died from something like intoxication, the man was clearly in a lot of distress screaming about how he was having difficulty breathing. There was no need to keep leaning on his neck after he was handcuffed.

 

[Derec]

I see no reason to back away from the statement that it looks like murder. It did to me and to witnesses urging the officer to quit pressing his knee on the man’s neck.

No, hey. He killed him.

We do not even know the cause of death yet and you two are already gleefully eager to condemn the police!

It was shocking. I think on reflection that if the discussion veers into murder-not-murder-only-manslaughter or whatever it'll be missing the point.

Most likely death by misadventure.

That police officer, and quite possibly his co-officer, surely have to face very serious charges over this, and quickly. Let the legal system decide if it was murder, manslaughter or unlawful killing or whatever.

They should not be charged unless there is probable cause that they committed some crime. That a suspect died is not in itself probable cause.

Unfortunately, no matter what the cause of death turns out to be, George Floyd's family will become millionaires. Especially in a leftist city like Minneapolis, where politicians are complicit in giving away millions even in 100% justified police killings.
Floyd was a fraudster. It looks like he will be successful in pulling his biggest con from beyond the grave.

 

[Derec]

Even if the autopsy shows this man died from something like intoxication, the man was clearly in a lot of distress screaming about how he was having difficulty breathing.

He would not be able to talk, much less scream if his airway was obstructed.

Also, suspects about to be arrested are frequently malingering in an attempt to avoid jail. It is therefore not surprising that police show skepticism toward such pronouncements. It may look callous from outside, but it's really a "boy who cried 'I can't breathe'" situation.

 

[laughing dog]

Floyd was a fraudster. It looks like he will be successful in pulling his biggest con from beyond the grave.

Mr. Floyd was arrested for forgery. According to local news

Floyd was arrested around 8 p.m. Monday for forgery, a non-violent crime that implies he tried to used forged documents at a nearby deli. Officers say he resisted arrest before Frazier started filming.

. (source: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/26/being-black-in-america-should-not-be-a-death-sentence-officials-respond-to-george-floyds-death/) There is no more information at this time about Mr. Floyd, yet here you are jumping to a conclusion to smear a victim. Typical but disgraceful.

 

[Derec]

Floyd was a fraudster. It looks like he will be successful in pulling his biggest con from beyond the grave.

Mr. Floyd was arrested for forgery.

What I said. Forgery is specific means to defraud somebody.

yet here you are jumping to a conclusion to smear a victim. Typical but disgraceful.

As opposed to all y'all jumping to conclusions to smear the police officers. Typical but disgraceful.

 

[TSwizzle]

Even if the autopsy shows this man died from something like intoxication, the man was clearly in a lot of distress screaming about how he was having difficulty breathing.

He would not be able to talk, much less scream if his airway was obstructed.

True but the sustained pressure on his neck and back, this went on for about five minutes, was obviously causing him problems.

Also, suspects about to be arrested are frequently malingering in an attempt to avoid jail. It is therefore not surprising that police show skepticism toward such pronouncements. It may look callous from outside, but it's really a "boy who cried 'I can't breathe'" situation.

The force used looked over the top and unnecessary considering the guy was handcuffed.

 

[laughing dog]

What I said. Forgery is specific means to defraud somebody.

He has not been convicted, so your characterization that he is a fraudster is a smear at this time. I realize it is your MO, but it is disgraceful.

As opposed to all y'all jumping to conclusions to smear the police officers. Typical but disgraceful.

I have not jumped to the conclusion that the officer killed anyone but your whataboutism is duly noted.

 

[laughing dog]

According to a local TV station:
https://kstp.com/news/investigation-minnesota-bca-fbi-man-in-medical-distress-handcuffs-/5741256/

The four responding officers involved in the incident in south Minneapolis that led to the death of George Floyd have been terminated, according to Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey.

 

[Derec]

He has not been convicted, so your characterization that he is a fraudster is a smear at this time.

How do you expect him to be convicted when a) it just happened and b) he managed to get himself killed during arrest?

I have not jumped to the conclusion that the officer killed anyone but your whataboutism is duly noted.

Even if you personally did not do it (yet) there are others like Toni who are already calling it "murder".

 

[Angry Floof]

What I said. Forgery is specific means to defraud somebody.

yet here you are jumping to a conclusion to smear a victim. Typical but disgraceful.

As opposed to all y'all jumping to conclusions to smear the police officers. Typical but disgraceful.

There's nothing more disgraceful than bootlicking. We all may be in error not having all the facts, but some of us have the humanity not to err on the side of the powerful.

 

[Derec]

According to a local TV station:
https://kstp.com/news/investigation-minnesota-bca-fbi-man-in-medical-distress-handcuffs-/5741256/

The four responding officers involved in the incident in south Minneapolis that led to the death of George Floyd have been terminated, according to Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey.

It is ridiculous to fire anybody before we even know what actually happened. Jacob Frey is just trying to appease the #BLM rioters. He doesn't want his city to look like Ferguson.

 

[laughing dog]

He has not been convicted, so your characterization that he is a fraudster is a smear at this time.

How do you expect him to be convicted when a) it just happened and b) he managed to get himself killed during arrest?

I expect people to not smear victims with baseless accusations. The fact he died during the arrest does not make him guilty. Nor does it mean that he "managed" to get himself killed.

Why do you feel the need to denigrate or smear the victims in these tragedies?

Even if you personally did not do it (yet) there are others like Toni who are already calling it "murder".

Your stupid "whataboutism" included me.

 

[Derec]

There's nothing more disgraceful than bootlicking. We all may be in error not having all the facts, but some of us have the humanity not to err on the side of the powerful.

Who is really powerful? Police officers who get unceremoniously fired just because a suspect dies during arrest even before the autopsy is complete? Or the families of criminals who become millionaires just because their family member dies during an interaction with police?

 

[Angry Floof]

There's nothing more disgraceful than bootlicking. We all may be in error not having all the facts, but some of us have the humanity not to err on the side of the powerful.

Who is really powerful? Police officers who get unceremoniously fired just because a suspect dies during arrest? Or the families of criminals who become millionaires just because their family member dies during an interaction with police?

Police have the power to kill pretty much anyone they want. Whether they get away with it is up to us holding them accountable.

Seriously, it's just as easy to use your frontal lobes to find reasons to defend the powerless and hold power accountable as it is to use them to find reasons to excuse violence and justify abuse of power. It doesn't actually require more glucose or effort, just more humanity.

 

[laughing dog]

According to a local TV station:
https://kstp.com/news/investigation-minnesota-bca-fbi-man-in-medical-distress-handcuffs-/5741256/

The four responding officers involved in the incident in south Minneapolis that led to the death of George Floyd have been terminated, according to Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey.

It is ridiculous to fire anybody before we even know what actually happened.

The police of chief fired the officers, not the mayor. But how do you know that Mayor Frey doesn't know what happened?

Jacob Frey is just trying to appease the #BLM rioters.

I did not realize you are a close confident of the mayor of Minneapolis.

He doesn't want his city to look like Ferguson.

I've been in both many times, and even destroyed, Minneapolis would not look like Ferguson, Mo.

 

[Derec]

Why do you feel the need to denigrate or smear the victims in these tragedies?

As opposed to denigrating and smearing the police officers?
It is not justice to fire working class police officers before even a cursory investigation into the case has been done, just to appease the angry mob.
Neither is it justice to make Floyd's family members millionaires just because he died while resisting arrest (likely high as a kite).

Your stupid "whataboutism" included me.

I know your MO. You already called them "callous".

 

[Toni]

We do not even know the cause of death yet and you two are already gleefully eager to condemn the police!

Gleefully? No. I am disgusted and heartbroken and weary to the bones. There is no glee or humor or joy in this death.

Most likely death by misadventure.

Really? Video shows a police officer's knee on a man's neck and him begging for help because he couldn't breathe. Then the man dies.

The 'misadventure' is the police officer's.

They should not be charged unless there is probable cause that they committed some crime. That a suspect died is not in itself probable cause.

That a suspect died begging for help with a police officer's knee on his neck is sufficiently suspicious to call for some very serious and independent investigation.

Unfortunately, no matter what the cause of death turns out to be, George Floyd's family will become millionaires. Especially in a leftist city like Minneapolis, where politicians are complicit in giving away millions even in 100% justified police killings.

Such as?

 

[Derec]

The police of chief fired the officers, not the mayor.

- the chief serves at the pleasure of the mayor.
- the mayor announced it.

But how do you know that Mayor Frey doesn't know what happened?

Does he have access to the future, when the investigation is already complete?

I did not realize you are a close confident of the mayor of Minneapolis.

It is pretty obvious what he is doing. You don't have to be a confident[sic] of the mayor to see that.

I've been in both many times, and even destroyed, Minneapolis would not look like Ferguson, Mo.

You don't give #BLM rioters/looters enough credit.

 

[laughing dog]

As opposed to denigrating and smearing the police officers?

More whataboutism.

It is not justice to fire working class police officers before even a cursory investigation into the case has been done, just to appease the angry mob.

You have no idea what the chief of police knows at this time.

Neither is it justice to make Floyd's family members millionaires just because he died while resisting arrest (likely high as a kite).

Wow, if you could long jump like you jump to conclusions, you'd hold the world record.

I know your MO. You already called them "callous".

. The entire quote
“Even if this victim died of natural causes unrelated to the officer's actions, the apparent callousness of the officer was uncalled for.” It is obvious that I did not accuse anyone of murder or killing anyone.