Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Derec]

Their second degree includes unintentional murder. Chauvin's been charged with:

Second Degree Murder - Unintentional - While Committing A Felony - 609.19.2(1)

Third Degree Murder - Perpetrating Eminently Dangerous Act and Evincing Depraved Mind - 609.195(a)

Second Degree Manslaughter - Culpable Negligence Creating Unreasonable Risk - 609.205(1)

What underlying felony is he being charged with?

 

[Derec]

Bree Newsome Bass on Twitter: "Notice how conservatives use the language of “coup” and “insurrection” to describe Black people challenging structural racism." / Twitter

Not surprising when so many people talk about "revolution" and "radical change".

On the other side, Candace Owens has recently snickered over the armed robbery that George Floyd once committed several years ago. He spent 5 years in jail for that.

What's wrong with pointing out his criminal record?

 

[Derec]

Acquitting officers is not the same thing as holding them accountable when acquittal is the nearly forgone conclusion.

In cases where police did nothing wrong activists still call for charges and convictions.

Justice doesn't mean to automatically convict the officers no matter what.

 

[Derec]

Geneva convention classifies tear gas a chemical weapon, and disallows its use in war.

As far as I know not specifically, but because the "chemical agent" clause is very broadly written.

That doesn't mean that police using tear gas for crowd control is a "war crime" or that tear gas is genuinely a "chemical weapon". Otherwise many police forces could be hauled off to the Hague. Since that is not happening, the argument is bogus.

 

[Derec]

That would be SECOND DEGREE MURDER

You misunderstood. 2nd degree murder is either intentional without premeditation or unintentional when committing a different felony. Prime example, somebody is killed unintentionally during a robbery. Robbery is a felony, 2nd degree murder applies.

 

[Derec]

Well here's my response to that claim: Why are Black people crowded in the cities and poorer than Whites on average? The reasons are historic and modern racism. So, if one wants to claim that the proximal cause and differences are due to economics, I will counter that those ALLEGED proximal causes are due to racism as the ROOT cause. And so, it's still racism in that hypothetical that economics is the current variable at play.

How long should past be used as an excuse? Many groups had bad things happen to them in not so distant past. Jews were oppressed in Europe for centuries, culminating in the Holocaust. Irish were oppressed by England; Poles, Baltics and Ukrainians were oppressed by Russia. Southern Slavs were brutally occupied by Ottoman Turks for 500 years. US blacks do not have a monopoly on suffering. But only they demand special treatment when applying for college or medical school for example. For how long?

 

[Deepak]

Geneva convention classifies tear gas a chemical weapon, and disallows its use in war.

As far as I know not specifically, but because the "chemical agent" clause is very broadly written.

That doesn't mean that police using tear gas for crowd control is a "war crime" or that tear gas is genuinely a "chemical weapon". Otherwise many police forces could be hauled off to the Hague. Since that is not happening, the argument is bogus.

In this thread I learned that hollow-point bullets can be freely used in war, since American police use them and aren't hauled off to the Hague.

Stop using bogus arguments everyone

 

[Derec]

And as it stands, studies indicate that actual criminal acts are committed at roughly equal rates per capital. The correlation people draw mirrors the imbalance in enforcement by cops. It's not that black people commit more crimes, but cops have historically enforced more vigorously against the black community, because the previous generation of cops arrested more black people... And so on, due to momentum carried all the way back to the days of race based slavery.

That is certainly not true. FBI crime data show that for homicide for example, blacks commit homicide 5x as often per capital[sic] as white people.

 

[Toni]

.

On the other side, Candace Owens has recently snickered over the armed robbery that George Floyd once committed several years ago. He spent 5 years in jail for that.

What's wrong with pointing out his criminal record?

It's totally irrelevant to what happened this year.

The police did not know of Floyd's record. He had served his time and was unarmed when he was killed. There was never any suggestion that he was armed. Even the police are not trying to claim that he was armed or they thought he was armed.

 

[Toni]

Well here's my response to that claim: Why are Black people crowded in the cities and poorer than Whites on average? The reasons are historic and modern racism. So, if one wants to claim that the proximal cause and differences are due to economics, I will counter that those ALLEGED proximal causes are due to racism as the ROOT cause. And so, it's still racism in that hypothetical that economics is the current variable at play.

How long should past be used as an excuse? Many groups had bad things happen to them in not so distant past. Jews were oppressed in Europe for centuries, culminating in the Holocaust. Irish were oppressed by England; Poles, Baltics and Ukrainians were oppressed by Russia. Southern Slavs were brutally occupied by Ottoman Turks for 500 years. US blacks do not have a monopoly on suffering. But only they demand special treatment when applying for college or medical school for example. For how long?

First of all, you have no problem at all holding past criminal offenses or even accusations against black people. In this thread.

More importantly: It becomes 'past oppression' only after the oppression stops.

 

[Derec]

In this thread I learned that hollow-point bullets can be freely used in war, since American police use them and aren't hauled off to the Hague.

I never said anything like that. Hollowpoint bullets can be used by police even if they can't be used in war. Police using tear gas isn't any more a "war crime" than police using hollow points.

 

[Deepak]

.

On the other side, Candace Owens has recently snickered over the armed robbery that George Floyd once committed several years ago. He spent 5 years in jail for that.

What's wrong with pointing out his criminal record?

It's totally irrelevant to what happened this year.

The police did not know of Floyd's record. He had served his time and was unarmed when he was killed. There was never any suggestion that he was armed. Even the police are not trying to claim that he was armed or they thought he was armed.

More than that, there's a tacit assumption that no one should ever be considered to have paid their debt to society.

Any crime that doesn't result in an execution is an eventual death sentence, in that even a video showing a man who didn't, nor could, offer meaningful resistance to the four cops who were pinning him down isn't enough to resist offering it up as apologia. Don't bother believing your lying eyes, they can't ever be trusted.

 

[Deepak]

In this thread I learned that hollow-point bullets can be freely used in war, since American police use them and aren't hauled off to the Hague.

I never said anything like that. Hollowpoint bullets can be used by police even if they can't be used in war. Police using tear gas isn't any more a "war crime" than police using hollow points.

Wat?

The exact quote

That doesn't mean that police using tear gas for crowd control is a "war crime" or that tear gas is genuinely a "chemical weapon". Otherwise many police forces could be hauled off to the Hague.

A deliberate bit of sophism then? No cops would ever be hauled in front of the Hague as police are civilian and not under the purview of the Hague or Geneva conventions.

The lack of hauling doesn't imply anything about the class or quality of the weapons. I'm trying to assume you're operating in good faith and genuinely believe it (and again don't understand causation), but are you saying that it was an argument offered in bad faith? You realize it's spurious but just trying to increase the noise floor?

 

[Derec]

First of all, you have no problem at all holding past criminal offenses or even accusations against black people. In this thread.

I have no problem holding an individual's criminal past against them. I have a problem with holding past crimes of people unrelated to be against me just becuase we have the same skin color.

More importantly: It becomes 'past oppression' only after the oppression stops.

These days it's not oppression but preferential treatment. For example look at the extent of racial preferences in medical schools:


I'd love to be oppressed like that!

 

[Derec]

A deliberate bit of sophism then? No cops would ever be hauled in front of the Hague as police are civilian and not under the purview of the Hague or Geneva conventions.

The deliberate bit of sophism is the assertion that police use of tear gas is a "war crime" because it is banned under Geneva conventions. That's what I was responding to.

 

[blastula]

Their second degree includes unintentional murder. Chauvin's been charged with:

Second Degree Murder - Unintentional - While Committing A Felony - 609.19.2(1)

Third Degree Murder - Perpetrating Eminently Dangerous Act and Evincing Depraved Mind - 609.195(a)

Second Degree Manslaughter - Culpable Negligence Creating Unreasonable Risk - 609.205(1)

What underlying felony is he being charged with?

Third degree assault. Everyone, the complete charges are here.

Criminal Charges against Officers | Scribd

 

[Derec]

More than that, there's a tacit assumption that no one should ever be considered to have paid their debt to society.

Unless a record is expunged, it is indeed the case to some extent. Felony records will make it more difficult to get a job, get housing and if you are convicted of a crime again, your sentence will likely be higher than if it was your first offense.

Any crime that doesn't result in an execution is an eventual death sentence, in that even a video showing a man who didn't, nor could, offer meaningful resistance to the four cops who were pinning him down isn't enough to resist offering it up as apologia. Don't bother believing your lying eyes, they can't ever be trusted.

I did not say that these officers did not commit a crime. But that doesn't mean we should not be honest about Floyd's history of violent crime.

 

[Deepak]

A deliberate bit of sophism then? No cops would ever be hauled in front of the Hague as police are civilian and not under the purview of the Hague or Geneva conventions.

The deliberate bit of sophism is the assertion that police use of tear gas is a "war crime" because it is banned under Geneva conventions. That's what I was responding to.

I don't think you actually understand the words you're using.

The point you're responding to is that the use of the substance in a war would be a war crime under the purview of international convention, and that is both true and accurate. Your faulty response is a textbook example of the tactic

 

[Emily Lake]

Geneva convention classifies tear gas a chemical weapon, and disallows its use in war.

As far as I know not specifically, but because the "chemical agent" clause is very broadly written.

That doesn't mean that police using tear gas for crowd control is a "war crime" or that tear gas is genuinely a "chemical weapon". Otherwise many police forces could be hauled off to the Hague. Since that is not happening, the argument is bogus.

In this thread I learned that hollow-point bullets can be freely used in war, since American police use them and aren't hauled off to the Hague.

Stop using bogus arguments everyone

I object to the term "everyone" there

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Well here's my response to that claim: Why are Black people crowded in the cities and poorer than Whites on average? The reasons are historic and modern racism. So, if one wants to claim that the proximal cause and differences are due to economics, I will counter that those ALLEGED proximal causes are due to racism as the ROOT cause. And so, it's still racism in that hypothetical that economics is the current variable at play.

How long should past be used as an excuse?

Not an excuse but a rational observation and how long is dependent upon how long the effects last. Therefore, it's not a "should" question. It is what we observe and therefore it is, your constant denial and posting of pictures of black men, not withstanding.

Many groups had bad things happen to them in not so distant past.

Strawman.

Jews were oppressed in Europe for centuries, culminating in the Holocaust.

And? Jews were indeed marginalized and oppressed. In fact, in the US, Jews lived in ghettos. This is why in the 30's and 40's, they were dominating basketball which requires very little resources, like in the ghetto. After WW2, Jews became far more accepted across white culture and their participation in WW2 as veterans allowed them benefits and entry into Suburbia, not just economically but culturally, too. This changed the dynamic drastically. We've discussed this before and you're still apparently in denial of it.

Irish were oppressed by England;

And in England there may still be some economic disparity, but in the US, which is what we're discussing, this was centuries ago and most US White people now have a little bit of Irish in them with racial integration. So, you have a non-point again.

Poles, Baltics and Ukrainians were oppressed by Russia.

UKRAINIANS ARE STILL OPPRESSED BY RUSSIA!!!! YOU DID NOT KNOW OPPRESSION IS ON-GOING???!!! There is no point in talking to you!

Southern Slavs were brutally occupied by Ottoman Turks for 500 years.

And in Turkey there are issues with certain peoples, still. This isn't Turkey! You know it's the United States!

US blacks do not have a monopoly on suffering.

No, shit Sherlock.

But only they demand special treatment when applying for college or medical school for example.

Why would Ukrainians expect affirmative action, i.e. NOT special treatment, but EQUAL treatment by looking for qualified candidates among different races, than merely the ruling race?!

For how long?

Until people like you stop contributing to the problem.