Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Derec]

Glad you realized it.

I see you are still in denial. The discussion with YOU are not fruitful.

Go make a thread for your off topic medical school bullshit.

It is not off topic. It's refuting the assertion that blacks are somehow "oppressed" in contemporary America.

 

[Toni]

I'm just speculating here, but I wonder if the 57 officers who resigned did so because they felt that upper echelons had put them in a completely untenable position and then threw them under the bus.

If they were given orders to 'take back' the streets in a certain manner, a manner in which they'd been trained, and that's exactly what they did, then those two officers shouldn't have been hung out to dry. Placed on paid leave or assigned to desk duty while the incident is investigated, sure. Given a formal reprimand or fired if they violated orders or deviated from standard procedures, definitely. But not placed on unpaid leave and be in danger of losing their jobs just for doing their jobs the way they'd been trained to do it.

I'm not saying that's what happened, and I'm not saying I approve of what we all saw in that video. I'm trying to understand why 57 cops would suddenly resign like that. I'm trying to see things from their p.o.v.

If they were trained to follow Plan A, ordered to follow Plan A, and followed Plan A exactly as ordered, then the people who developed and chose to implement Plan A should step up and defend their choices and their officers.

Did you see the video? I believe they were rightly put on unpaid leave. I haven't gone back and watched a third time, but I believe one officer immediately started to check on the gentleman who was on the ground and the other pushed him off. A BUNCH of officers walked right on past a man who had not behaved aggressively, who was laying on the ground, bleeding apparently from his ear (sign of closed head injury, not merely scalp laceration) and...did nothing to stop and give aid. There were no shots fired, no emergency.

But if you are correct, then whoever issued orders such that they were NOT to stop and offer assistance to injured persons, then that person should also be placed on leave and investigated.

I did see the video. It appeared to me that the cop who shoved the man did not intend to harm him. The fall was an accident. And the moment that one cop goes to check on the injured man and the other cops stops him reminded me of something an active duty sailor once said about her training. As I recall, she was being interviewed following an attack on a US Navy ship. She said she was trained to not give immediate assistance to injured crew mates during an emergency but to leave them for the corpsmen. She said it was really difficult to ignore your friends and ship mates but in an emergency she had to carry out her own duties. It's pretty harsh, but it makes sense. And it makes sense that cops on an Emergency Response team would receive similar training. They probably had paramedics standing by, and they were probably doing exactly what they had been trained to do.

I think there's an urgent need to re-orient out police forces away from militarization and back toward serving the needs of the entire community. And there's probably a fair number of bad apples that need to be tossed out of that department. But I don't think the mass resignations are just cops having a hissy fit. I think they feel betrayed, and perhaps they should.

I agree about the urgent need to re-orient police forces away from militarization and back towards serving the needs of the entire community. And that there are a fair number of bad apples and some who simply are not suited for the job--as is true in any job, to be frank.

I am certain that a lot of police feel betrayed and feel under attack. I'm white but from what I can tell, that's a lot like how black people feel every damn day. And maybe, just maybe, that is something that ALL of us who are not dealing with this kind of antagonism/racism directed at us personally should really sit with for a while. If we are feeling attacked, under fire, unjustly tarnished with the bad actions of a few, threatened, in danger, under attack: yeah. But you know what: this will blow over a bit, or die down. Anger and outrage consume a lot of energy. It's really hard to be angry all the time, even when every ounce of anger and outrage is justified 100 times over. When the anger and outrage against police dies down a bit: they will still be police--or not. Some will choose differently and for some, different will be chosen for them. But black people will still be black and still have to deal with about a billion times more hostility directed towards them every day than what is being directed against police officers now.

Or so it seems to me.

 

[zorq]

How many people have you assaulted on the street for having the audacity to talk to you. Did you insult them after putting them in the hospital too?

A strange question. But the silly old duffer made a bad choice. Play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

You didn't answer either of my questions. You see, your attitude is so filled with scorn that I really can't tell if your are the sort of person who assaults people on the street for having the audacity to talk to you. You clearly have no problem insulting the victim of this assault, so I wonder how many other people you spit on when they are down. Do you think you are a moral person? Because I haven't seen any evidence of it.

 

[ruby sparks]

Cool. So we both think LD was right.

Which just leaves why your post started with a ‘no’.

Clearly, we both agree with LD, and with Jimmy. But what you are saying is that it is as simple an issue as what one of them said.

I tend to view the Identity Politics issue, as with most of these things, as being a bit more complex and multi-faceted than what either of them said, even if I agree with them. I agree with what they said, but it isn’t the whole picture.

For example:

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5342/the-problem-with-identity-politics

And:

https://www.theguardian.com/society...tity-politics-went-from-inclusion-to-division

I'm sorry for the confusion: I was saying that you are mistaken. There are no pros/cons.

I really can’t agree that something as complicated as identity politics doesn’t have multiple aspects to it, or that it doesn’t have pros and cons depending on how it is handled or discussed, advocated for or against, and indeed by whom. I posted two articles that I thought explored that quite well. Perhaps you were not able to access them.

By the way I agree in principle with a lot of what you just said to Arctish.

 

[laughing dog]

Cool. So we both think LD was right.

Which just leaves why your post started with a ‘no’.

Clearly, we both agree with LD, and with Jimmy. But what you are saying is that it is as simple an issue as what one of them said.

I tend to view the Identity Politics issue, as with most of these things, as being a bit more complex and multi-faceted than what either of them said, even if I agree with them. I agree with what they said, but it isn’t the whole picture.

For example:

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5342/the-problem-with-identity-politics

And:

https://www.theguardian.com/society...tity-politics-went-from-inclusion-to-division

I'm sorry for the confusion: I was saying that you are mistaken. There are no pros/cons.

I really can’t agree that something as complicated as identity politics doesn’t have multiple aspects to it, or that it doesn’t have pros and cons depending on how it is handled or discussed, advocated for or against, and indeed by whom. I posted two articles that I thought explored that quite well. Perhaps you were not able to access them.

By the way I agree in principle with a lot of what you just said to Arctish.

Of course "identity politics" is a multi-faceted complex issue. But "identity politics" have been around as long as there have been people. It is not a new issue. It appears to be part of the human social condition. Therefore, decrying it is pointless. The issue is how to live with it in an inclusive, peaceful and productive society.

However, most of those who decry "identity politics" are really just complaining about the "identity politics" of others while explicitly or implicitly buying into an approved "identity" politics.

 

[Toni]

This is not going to play well for your side if the books are opened up wide all across the nation.

This ain't no football game.

 

[Toni]

Alexis Ohanian Sr. on Twitter: "I've resigned as a member of the reddit board, I have urged them to fill my seat with a black candidate, + I will use future gains on my Reddit stock to serve the black community, chiefly to curb racial hate, and I’m starting with a pledge of $1M to @kaepernick7’s @yourrightscamp" / Twitter

Ohanian just wants to keep his wife happy. She probably told him no pussy unless he does that.

Giving money to Kaep is about the worst thing one could do if the goal is to "curb racial hate" as Kaep is all about stoking it.

Please. No one on reddit is married or has sex. Ever.

 

[Toni]

Wrong. It's about demanding special treatment (such as racial or gender preferences in college/grad school admissions and hiring) based on race and gender.

White men have been getting special treatment and preferences under the law and custom of the land for hundreds of years.

 

[ZiprHead]

"Fox News actually put up this graphic. As if to imply, in no uncertain terms, that killing black men is good for the markets."

 

[ruby sparks]

I really can’t agree that something as complicated as identity politics doesn’t have multiple aspects to it, or that it doesn’t have pros and cons depending on how it is handled or discussed, advocated for or against, and indeed by whom. I posted two articles that I thought explored that quite well. Perhaps you were not able to access them.

By the way I agree in principle with a lot of what you just said to Arctish.

Of course "identity politics" is a multi-faceted complex issue. But "identity politics" have been around as long as there have been people. It is not a new issue. It appears to be part of the human social condition. Therefore, decrying it is pointless. The issue is how to live with it in an inclusive, peaceful and productive society.

However, most of those who decry "identity politics" are really just complaining about the "identity politics" of others while explicitly or implicitly buying into an approved "identity" politics.

Again, I don’t think I would disagree with you there.

 

[thebeave]

Alexis Ohanian Sr. ?????? on Twitter: "I've resigned as a member of the reddit board, I have urged them to fill my seat with a black candidate, + I will use future gains on my Reddit stock to serve the black community, chiefly to curb racial hate, and I’m starting with a pledge of $1M to @kaepernick7’s @yourrightscamp" / Twitter

Ohanian just wants to keep his wife happy. She probably told him no pussy unless he does that.

Giving money to Kaep is about the worst thing one could do if the goal is to "curb racial hate" as Kaep is all about stoking it.

Please. No one on reddit is married or has sex. Ever.

Hmm. So, Serena Williams's baby is from a secret lover? Quite the scandal there.

 

[Jarhyn]

This is not going to play well for your side if the books are opened up wide all across the nation.

This ain't no football game.

I don't think the white nationalist understands that they've been lied to by Faux Noise for many years and that the nazipublicans have been searching long and hard for signs of voter fraud, especially in places like Florida, to justify their voter suppression tactics like voter ID requirements and have still been striking out.

It's almost like the risk/reward breakdown of voter fraud vs election fraud makes the first infeasible and absolutely not worth the time and the latter much more likely albeit through voter suppression and plausible deniability re: screen miscalibration and "hanging Chad" style tactics.

Edit: oh, and whenever we seem to find one, they always seem to be one of those "very fine people"...

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Chauvin supposedly has a home in Florida, which is apparently why he voted there but raises two (new) pertinent questions:

• Did he also vote in Minnesota?
• How the fuck does a Minnesota beat cop afford to own and maintain two homes?

 

[blastula]

I don't think he was playing.

I think he was quite serious about taking a moral stance on a vitally important social issue, one in which lives hang in the balance.

Silly old fool. A martyr to the cause I suppose. Best leave these things to the young uns.

He was just standing there not hurting anyone. So it's perfectly fine with you when government law enforcement knocks down a harmless old man and seriously injuring him, but you will cry and cry when they keep you out of the beach for a couple of months.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think he was playing.

I think he was quite serious about taking a moral stance on a vitally important social issue, one in which lives hang in the balance.

Silly old fool. A martyr to the cause I suppose. Best leave these things to the young uns.

He was just standing there not hurting anyone. So it's perfectly fine with you when government law enforcement knocks down a harmless old man and seriously injuring him, but you will cry and cry when they keep you out of the beach for a couple of months.

Priorities, man, priorities.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, that WAS my point !
When people cite crime rates based on race, they make it racist. When it is actually socioeconomic factors.
Blacks are not more violent and crime prone. Poorer people are. Blacks happen to be poorer than the other races.

And the reason there is more crime in the lower socioeconomic strata is not because poor people are evil. Its because they have far fewer options.

It's because they are policed differently. And they do not receive equal treatment at the hands of the police or any of the judicial system.

Exactly. They are suspected more, accused more, convicted more ... so in this case the data is biased in itself. So anyone who cites this flawed statistics is not really proving a point, because the data itself is biased.

Murder gets investigated enough that we have a high enough clearance rate to have pretty good data on the racial distribution of murderers. It's consistent with what we see with arrests with other crimes.

We also have data from automated systems that obviously can't see the race of the driver--and such systems select black-driven cars at about the same rate officers do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Poles, Baltics and Ukrainians were oppressed by Russia.

UKRAINIANS ARE STILL OPPRESSED BY RUSSIA!!!! YOU DID NOT KNOW OPPRESSION IS ON-GOING???!!! There is no point in talking to you!

We have been over this many times. You are both incorrect and projecting.

Putin's vomit doesn't constitute information.

 

[Toni]

Exactly. They are suspected more, accused more, convicted more ... so in this case the data is biased in itself. So anyone who cites this flawed statistics is not really proving a point, because the data itself is biased.

Murder gets investigated enough that we have a high enough clearance rate to have pretty good data on the racial distribution of murderers. It's consistent with what we see with arrests with other crimes.

We also have data from automated systems that obviously can't see the race of the driver--and such systems select black-driven cars at about the same rate officers do.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't think he was playing.

I think he was quite serious about taking a moral stance on a vitally important social issue, one in which lives hang in the balance.

Silly old fool. A martyr to the cause I suppose. Best leave these things to the young uns.

He was just standing there not hurting anyone. So it's perfectly fine with you when government law enforcement knocks down a harmless old man and seriously injuring him, but you will cry and cry when they keep you out of the beach for a couple of months.

He should have stayed home out of harms way. Whether that harm comes from possibly catching Covid19 or from over zealous police, it was a bad decision on his part anyway you look at it. So tragic but also avoidable.

 

[Jarhyn]

He was just standing there not hurting anyone. So it's perfectly fine with you when government law enforcement knocks down a harmless old man and seriously injuring him, but you will cry and cry when they keep you out of the beach for a couple of months.

He should have stayed home out of harms way. Whether that harm comes from possibly catching Covid19 or from over zealous police, it was a bad decision on his part anyway you look at it. So tragic but also avoidable.

victim blaming. People have a first amendment right to free speech, and in particular nonviolent speech. The police brutally assaulted him for exercising that right to speech.

I.mean shit, you get your panties in a bunch over people punching Nazis with your FrEeDoM Of SpEeCh, but as soon as it's a cop punching an old man down, you're all "he brought this on himself".

Maybe if Nazis don't want to get punched, by that logic, they should stay home out of harm's way.